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How do you win without playing a C and PF
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BRIGGS
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4/1/2010  11:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 4/1/2010  11:54 PM
when all of the good teams have both?

We dont have one PF off the bench never mind C

when a team like Utah brings in Millsap etc.. how do you compete against that?

How do you compete against a frontline with a true 4-5?

RIP Crushalot😞
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Pharzeone
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4/2/2010  12:20 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
when a team like Utah brings in Millsap etc.. how do you compete against that?

I was with you until this. I don't comprehend. When you say "a team" do you mean the Knicks or any team in general? Because quite a few teams can compete with the Jazz even with Millsap. Please elaborate.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
CrushAlot
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4/2/2010  12:30 AM
I don't think you can. I also think that I underestimated the leadership ability of Nash. He must be a tremendous leader to run a team the way he has with the Suns. I did not think he was deserving of his mvps at the time but now that D'Antoni is in NY I am convinced that he definitely deserved them. I think without Nash running his offense and leading his team D'Antoni will continue to not be successful. I am not sure but I believe his winning percentage without Nash running his team is 37%. This is for a significant tenure in the NBA with three teams and over the course of 4 seasons. I find Walsh to be patient and intelligent but I am wondering if he is being stubborn with D'Antoni. Not playing a center and power forward are really the part of the iceberg that is D'Antoni that you can see. The rest has been coming out since he has been in NY. You could have titled this thread how can youu win if you don't play Centers, Power Forwards, and guys who don't have tremendous character, self motivation and do not need coaching( in my opinion that excludes most guys under 25). Walsh has learned that it is worthless to acquire guys with height and the ability to rebound and play defense. He has learned it is worthless to aquire talented guys who are not finished projects and might need guidance from a coach. He has learned that the coach will not play draft picks or guys acquired to fill a need because he has a group of guys in his rotation with the character and compliance qualities that he requires more than talent. Walsh is in a tough spot. He needs to have a big 2010 summer and has to hope that the guys he gets have elite talent, character and self-motivation.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
BRIGGS
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4/2/2010  2:03 AM
Pharzeone wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
when a team like Utah brings in Millsap etc.. how do you compete against that?

I was with you until this. I don't comprehend. When you say "a team" do you mean the Knicks or any team in general? Because quite a few teams can compete with the Jazz even with Millsap. Please elaborate.

When most good teams have quality C+PF to start and then have guys like Millsap come off the bench.

We dont even have the starters except Lee--and nothing off the bench. Our PFs really are SF like Harrington and Gallinari.

RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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4/2/2010  2:06 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I don't think you can. I also think that I underestimated the leadership ability of Nash. He must be a tremendous leader to run a team the way he has with the Suns. I did not think he was deserving of his mvps at the time but now that D'Antoni is in NY I am convinced that he definitely deserved them. I think without Nash running his offense and leading his team D'Antoni will continue to not be successful. I am not sure but I believe his winning percentage without Nash running his team is 37%. This is for a significant tenure in the NBA with three teams and over the course of 4 seasons. I find Walsh to be patient and intelligent but I am wondering if he is being stubborn with D'Antoni. Not playing a center and power forward are really the part of the iceberg that is D'Antoni that you can see. The rest has been coming out since he has been in NY. You could have titled this thread how can youu win if you don't play Centers, Power Forwards, and guys who don't have tremendous character, self motivation and do not need coaching( in my opinion that excludes most guys under 25). Walsh has learned that it is worthless to acquire guys with height and the ability to rebound and play defense. He has learned it is worthless to aquire talented guys who are not finished projects and might need guidance from a coach. He has learned that the coach will not play draft picks or guys acquired to fill a need because he has a group of guys in his rotation with the character and compliance qualities that he requires more than talent. Walsh is in a tough spot. He needs to have a big 2010 summer and has to hope that the guys he gets have elite talent, character and self-motivation.


Man that is a good well-reasoned post.

RIP Crushalot😞
Pharzeone
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4/2/2010  3:16 AM
BRIGGS wrote:
Pharzeone wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
when a team like Utah brings in Millsap etc.. how do you compete against that?

I was with you until this. I don't comprehend. When you say "a team" do you mean the Knicks or any team in general? Because quite a few teams can compete with the Jazz even with Millsap. Please elaborate.

When most good teams have quality C+PF to start and then have guys like Millsap come off the bench.

We dont even have the starters except Lee--and nothing off the bench. Our PFs really are SF like Harrington and Gallinari.

ok, gotcha. Yeah, when you start to get to those elite levels, the bench is developed. Right now the Knicks are playing guys out of position and choosing not to play players in their proper position. I mean Both Lee and Hill are PFs but the coach to play at the center position just because he has some issue with big men.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Anji
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4/2/2010  4:26 AM
CrushAlot wrote:I don't think you can. I also think that I underestimated the leadership ability of Nash. He must be a tremendous leader to run a team the way he has with the Suns. I did not think he was deserving of his mvps at the time but now that D'Antoni is in NY I am convinced that he definitely deserved them. I think without Nash running his offense and leading his team D'Antoni will continue to not be successful.

So Maybe the knicks top target should be Chris Paul????

It would be tough, but if the knicks took on Oakfurs contract they might bit......... maybe a third team could be brought in.

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
nixluva
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4/2/2010  4:56 AM
People underestimate MDA's system. Yes it works great with Nash running it, but there's plenty that can be accomplished if you simply have a few deft passers on the floor. It's why even tho we don't have a great PG we still avg 21 assists! We get good shots and the offense leads to open shots. We can do well so long as there are good passers like Lee, Gallo & TMac on the floor.

In regard to MDA's record without Nash, it's slanted cuz in most of the games were with bad teams. Most coaches would have losing records with the teams he's had in NY and the brief stint in Denver. Besides which how many teams aren't worse without it's best player. What would Mike Browns record be without Lebron?

Pharzeone
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4/2/2010  7:10 AM
nixluva wrote:People underestimate MDA's system. Yes it works great with Nash running it, but there's plenty that can be accomplished if you simply have a few deft passers on the floor. It's why even tho we don't have a great PG we still avg 21 assists! We get good shots and the offense leads to open shots. We can do well so long as there are good passers like Lee, Gallo & TMac on the floor.

In regard to MDA's record without Nash, it's slanted cuz in most of the games were with bad teams. Most coaches would have losing records with the teams he's had in NY and the brief stint in Denver. Besides which how many teams aren't worse without it's best player. What would Mike Browns record be without Lebron?

MDA's record when Nash was injured is 4-12 with the Suns from 2004-2008 seasons. In those games he either had Amare, Marion, Barbosa and Joe Johnson in the lineup. The reason why it was easy for me to recall this because he missed a few games in the 04-05 season and they went on a four game losing streak including the very first game he was out and it was constantly brought up during the Nash vs. Shaq MVP debate. MDA was still the coach while Nash was out.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nixluva
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4/2/2010  12:17 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
nixluva wrote:People underestimate MDA's system. Yes it works great with Nash running it, but there's plenty that can be accomplished if you simply have a few deft passers on the floor. It's why even tho we don't have a great PG we still avg 21 assists! We get good shots and the offense leads to open shots. We can do well so long as there are good passers like Lee, Gallo & TMac on the floor.

In regard to MDA's record without Nash, it's slanted cuz in most of the games were with bad teams. Most coaches would have losing records with the teams he's had in NY and the brief stint in Denver. Besides which how many teams aren't worse without it's best player. What would Mike Browns record be without Lebron?

MDA's record when Nash was injured is 4-12 with the Suns from 2004-2008 seasons. In those games he either had Amare, Marion, Barbosa and Joe Johnson in the lineup. The reason why it was easy for me to recall this because he missed a few games in the 04-05 season and they went on a four game losing streak including the very first game he was out and it was constantly brought up during the Nash vs. Shaq MVP debate. MDA was still the coach while Nash was out.

My view on this is that at that time they didn't have a capable backup PG and since Nash had the ball so much it was very disruptive to suddenly yank him out of such a young team. Here we will have more players who can handle the ball. I think MDA learned how important it is to have a team with more ball movers at multiple positions. Lee has been used as a point forward in the half court and TMac is used as a point in the half court as well. We'll be looking for guys like Lebron or J Johnson who are capable ball movers. We won't be caught with a ball dominant PG and no other players who can make passes and set up teammates.

Nash actually goes against a lot of the principles of MDA's system as he holds the ball longer than the plays are designed for but since he's so great he was allowed to do it. The system is designed to work without a ball dominant PG. If you go and look up the concepts and plays you'd know how the early offense and half court sets are supposed to work. This is why I've disagreed with the notion that PHX was the perfect MDA team. NO IT WASN'T! The perfect team is one with multiple play makers and shooters that keep the ball moving and create open shots with spacing, player movement and quick decisions with the ball. The Suns actually at times didn't have enough of those guys. Guys like Diaw and Grant Hill are more like what MDA would want. Like I said we still avg'd 21 assists despite not having a single high ast PG. That's how the system is designed to work. It's wh Al isn't an MDA fav. Asts should be spread across the team, as everyone shares the ball.

TMS
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4/2/2010  1:15 PM
nixluva wrote:In regard to MDA's record without Nash, it's slanted cuz in most of the games were with bad teams.

he coached a team with Stephon Marbury playing at Allstar levels, Amare Stoudamire averaging 20+ a night, Shawn Marion, Joe Johnson, Leandro Barbosa & Penny Hardaway to a 21W-40L record.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TheGame
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4/2/2010  1:18 PM
It's called SSOL. MDA's offensive scheme can solve all problems. Didn't you read the press clippings? Don't think about it. Just believe.
Trust the Process
CrushAlot
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4/2/2010  5:02 PM
Sounds like we will find out tonight.

New York may be without Al Harrington(notes) after he tweaked his left ankle in the third quarter of a 118-90 loss to Portland on Wednesday night. Harrington, averaging 17.7 points and 5.7 rebounds, is listed as questionable.

The veteran forward played one full season and parts of two others with the Warriors before being traded to the Knicks on Nov. 21, 2008. His absence would leave David Lee(notes) and Danilo Gallinari(notes) as the only Knicks players taller than 6-foot-8.

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Pharzeone
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4/2/2010  5:08 PM
CrushAlot wrote:Sounds like we will find out tonight.

New York may be without Al Harrington(notes) after he tweaked his left ankle in the third quarter of a 118-90 loss to Portland on Wednesday night. Harrington, averaging 17.7 points and 5.7 rebounds, is listed as questionable.

The veteran forward played one full season and parts of two others with the Warriors before being traded to the Knicks on Nov. 21, 2008. His absence would leave David Lee(notes) and Danilo Gallinari(notes) as the only Knicks players taller than 6-foot-8.

They are lucky they are facing a team that cares less about playing defense than they do. Nellie ball is a joke. Shoot it from anywhere. There's no bad shot only bad shooters approach.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
sidsanders
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4/2/2010  5:32 PM
Pharzeone wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:Sounds like we will find out tonight.

New York may be without Al Harrington(notes) after he tweaked his left ankle in the third quarter of a 118-90 loss to Portland on Wednesday night. Harrington, averaging 17.7 points and 5.7 rebounds, is listed as questionable.

The veteran forward played one full season and parts of two others with the Warriors before being traded to the Knicks on Nov. 21, 2008. His absence would leave David Lee(notes) and Danilo Gallinari(notes) as the only Knicks players taller than 6-foot-8.

They are lucky they are facing a team that cares less about playing defense than they do. Nellie ball is a joke. Shoot it from anywhere. There's no bad shot only bad shooters approach.

im not suggesting mike should be smoked cuz its not gonna happen... still, recall donnie gettin run outta town in less then a year WITH A WINNING RECORD!!!! diff team/times...

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
How do you win without playing a C and PF

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