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Can Toney Douglas Make The Guys Around Him Better? Lets Ask Al Harrington...
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misterearl
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3/13/2010  11:44 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/13/2010  11:55 PM
Having a lead guard who can lead is a wonderful thing. Of course it is only a small sample but Toney Douglas responds in a big way to getting the start against a quality team. Were the Mavs caught napping? It does not matter. The Knicks dictated the rhythm and pace of the game.

Only 8 turnovers.. total... with 28 assists. As a result of Douglas knowing where to go with the ball, guys got better looks and his defense was a beautiful thing.

Did I mention that Bill Walker can play?

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skeng
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3/13/2010  11:54 PM
yessur!! Finally we catch a break..

I just wish TD had been giving the same chance on a regular basis. Might've changed the whole season for the slightly better.

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ramtour420
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3/13/2010  11:54 PM
His D covers up the rookie mistakes that are expected. Btw, Al Harrington approves . . .
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misterearl
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3/13/2010  11:57 PM
The Mayor (+34) definitely approves this message.

If D'Antoni does not start Douglas for the remainder of the season, he needs to go.

Get the rookie Gallinari stronger, and make him play closer to the basket.

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franco12
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3/14/2010  12:58 AM
I wonder if Walsh asked MDA to play him? I mean, Walsh has to just about put together a new roster over the summer. There is no way to know who to keep if Walsh hasn't seen these guys play.
CrushAlot
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3/14/2010  1:03 AM
franco12 wrote:I wonder if Walsh asked MDA to play him? I mean, Walsh has to just about put together a new roster over the summer. There is no way to know who to keep if Walsh hasn't seen these guys play.
I think he got the time because Walsh is traveling with the team. Douglas is Walsh's guy and D'Antoni did not play him all year despite being out of the playoff run very early into the season.
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nixluva
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3/14/2010  2:09 AM
MDA had already said that he was gonna give the kid a longer look. This month alone he's played 21, 24, 23, 26 & 31 mins tonight and a 3 min game in the mix. Only the last 2 games have really been exemplary tho. Last month he also had 24 & 28 min games. One game doesn't mean he's all the way there, but it's a great sign. He's making the most of his chance of late and that's the idea.
misterearl
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3/14/2010  9:49 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2010  9:52 AM
nixluva - Douglas is a work in progress. But the progress is encouraging.

Shift du Crystal Ball

Toney Douglas, see you Las Vegas
Rudy Gay, welcome back to The Garden
Chris Bosh as 6'11 skill forward
David Lee at forward
Danilo Gallinari at center

Wilson Chandler, "stay healthy my friend"
Bill Walker as John Starks
Sergio, until a better lead guard comes along
Al Harrington, maybe
JR Giddens as the baby in the king cake

That's ten

once a knick always a knick
Cosmic
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3/14/2010  10:02 AM
One thing I see with Douglas is that his court vision is narrow. He does keep his head up and does look for teammates but it's a narrow vision is you will. If you're not in his line of sight you could be wide open and you're not getting the ball. I've seen this happen a lot where Gallo or Al or Chandler are wide open in the corners or at the elbows, Douglas drives, and all he sees is who is in front of him. He doesn't see the man "behind" him at the elbow wide open. Or in the corner on the other side of the court. Or have the savvy to pass behind him.

Not yet at least.

But considering that's literally the LONE issue I see with Douglas?

I really like this guy as a player and have since the day we drafted him. Kid's a keeper. Not even a thought!

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misterearl
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3/14/2010  10:10 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2010  10:20 AM
Drew Brees: "I can't get through, the gate is narrow!"

Cosmic - if 8 assists and zero turnovers is narrow, then sign me up. Toney is still playing with training wheels. But I like the fact he doesn't see the man "behind" him because that is a nice way of saying, "get yo' lazy azz moving TOWARD the rack, and not away from it"

The beauty of Douglas always moving TOWARD the rack, which cuts the whole east-west game. Douglas reduces the Knicks dependance on three point shots as he drives the ball north-south, to the paint. Gallo does NOT need to stay outside hoisting jumpers any more than 6'9 Al Harrington should be living outside. Gallo had one of his best rebounding games last night (7) and I would LOVE to see him use his 6'10 frame to bang inside. He does not shy away from contact and that is a good thing. Add some muscle to our 6'10 yoot and "voila" the Knicks have a center!

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martin
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3/14/2010  10:11 AM
Cosmic wrote:One thing I see with Douglas is that his court vision is narrow. He does keep his head up and does look for teammates but it's a narrow vision is you will. If you're not in his line of sight you could be wide open and you're not getting the ball. I've seen this happen a lot where Gallo or Al or Chandler are wide open in the corners or at the elbows, Douglas drives, and all he sees is who is in front of him. He doesn't see the man "behind" him at the elbow wide open. Or in the corner on the other side of the court. Or have the savvy to pass behind him.

Not yet at least.

But considering that's literally the LONE issue I see with Douglas?

I really like this guy as a player and have since the day we drafted him. Kid's a keeper. Not even a thought!

kid is definitely a keeps and his D is nice.

I haven't watched PGs enough to see how Nash or Devin Harris or other PG to see how they evolved over the years... wonder if Toney has enough to be a solid guy in that role.

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Finestrg
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3/14/2010  10:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2010  10:41 AM
He definitely ran a good show the last two games. Can't for the life of me figure out why D'Antoni took so long to incorporate this kid into the fold. Everytime he's played he's produced and has had an impact. I guess it was just too crowded in the backcourt early on...He's a solid defender, heady, a good rebounder for a point, and a good passer (I knew right from his first 10 assist game in the SL that he could pass the ball - and now we're seeing it again with these expanded minutes - very good drive and kick guy and he can definitely run the P&R as well). And on offense we know he can shoot but what I've really liked the past few games is the late burst of speed he has driving to the basket. Toney reminds me of a pitcher who has that late life on his fastball with his quick burst of energy going to the bucket. Anyone else notice that recently? And once he gets there, he can finish. I think he's stronger and a better athlete than we all realize. He's a keeper.....NOW JUST KEEP PLAYING HIM!
Olbrannon
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3/14/2010  12:07 PM
Finestrg wrote:He definitely ran a good show the last two games. Can't for the life of me figure out why D'Antoni took so long to incorporate this kid into the fold. Everytime he's played he's produced and has had an impact. I guess it was just too crowded in the backcourt early on...He's a solid defender, heady, a good rebounder for a point, and a good passer (I knew right from his first 10 assist game in the SL that he could pass the ball - and now we're seeing it again with these expanded minutes - very good drive and kick guy and he can definitely run the P&R as well). And on offense we know he can shoot but what I've really liked the past few games is the late burst of speed he has driving to the basket. Toney reminds me of a pitcher who has that late life on his fastball with his quick burst of energy going to the bucket. Anyone else notice that recently? And once he gets there, he can finish. I think he's stronger and a better athlete than we all realize. He's a keeper.....NOW JUST KEEP PLAYING HIM!

Defense. Not D'Antoni's cuppa. He clogs the middle from the perimeter. He is Awesome when he has a shot blocking center to back him. Berman was impressed. "Midway through the third quarter, Douglas showed his worth. He ripped down a tough rebound in traffic, started a fastbreak that was finished by Chandler, with a layup and foul. Chandler completed the 3-point play to put the Knicks up 70-54."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/knicks_simply_mav_elous_HHDU0zSfWaT6WlrJXi5HmM#ixzz0iARShYAk

I've never seen anyone in basketball who can stay in a defensive stance as many minutes as Toney. And making the other point earn it means he has less energy to spend on the defensive end. He sounds awful confident right now. Impression from comments and clips- decisive.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Olbrannon
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3/14/2010  12:19 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/14/2010  12:20 PM
"Rookie Toney Douglas went from being a seldom-used reserve point guard to playing big minutes in the fourth quarter of the previous three games. Now, he’s a starter for the New York Knicks."

“He deserves it,” Coach Mike D’Antoni told MSG. Douglas continues to shine.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
Marv
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3/14/2010  12:35 PM
misterearl wrote:nixluva - Douglas is a work in progress. But the progress is encouraging.

Shift du Crystal Ball

Toney Douglas, see you Las Vegas
Rudy Gay, welcome back to The Garden
Chris Bosh as 6'11 skill forward
David Lee at forward
Danilo Gallinari at center

Wilson Chandler, "stay healthy my friend"
Bill Walker as John Starks
Sergio, until a better lead guard comes along
Al Harrington, maybe
JR Giddens as the baby in the king cake

That's ten

can't happen for cap reasons. you'd have to target 2 of 3 of bosh, gay, lee. unless of course you can figure out a way to make mr. curry go bye-bye.

misterearl
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3/14/2010  1:12 PM
Sheesh Marv - can't you let a brotha have some fun?

Okayfine, here is The Answer Man's Revised Shift Du Dirty Dozen for November 2010


6'2 Toney Douglas, you don't get to be player of the year in ACC bein' no fool
6'5 Bill Walker, tough on guards, like Spree was tough on guards, protect those knees
6'11 Chris Bosh as 6'11 skill forward, his ball handling is a plus
6'9 David Lee at forward, he earned it
6'10 Danilo Gallinari, with new muscles and new confidence, at center

6'8 Wilson Chandler, "stay healthy my friend", a Summer of supervised workouts will be a good thing
6'9 Al Harrington... or Tracy McGrady either one is cool with me. TMac for his basketball IQ
6'1 Sergio, until a better understudy comes along, or he hits the weight room, whichever comes first
6'5 JR Giddens as the baby in the king cake, he needs a mentor to harness his first round talent
6'11 Summer League/ DLeague/ Euro-Afro-Brazilian-Asian center to be named later

6'9 second round draft pick, Jarvis Vernado of Miss State is cool wit me, shot blocker supreme
6'11 Jonathan Bender as Harthorne Wingo

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Paladin55
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3/14/2010  2:44 PM
martin wrote:
Cosmic wrote:One thing I see with Douglas is that his court vision is narrow. He does keep his head up and does look for teammates but it's a narrow vision is you will. If you're not in his line of sight you could be wide open and you're not getting the ball. I've seen this happen a lot where Gallo or Al or Chandler are wide open in the corners or at the elbows, Douglas drives, and all he sees is who is in front of him. He doesn't see the man "behind" him at the elbow wide open. Or in the corner on the other side of the court. Or have the savvy to pass behind him.

Not yet at least.

But considering that's literally the LONE issue I see with Douglas?

I really like this guy as a player and have since the day we drafted him. Kid's a keeper. Not even a thought!

kid is definitely a keeps and his D is nice.

I haven't watched PGs enough to see how Nash or Devin Harris or other PG to see how they evolved over the years... wonder if Toney has enough to be a solid guy in that role.

Well we now have a nice chunk of games to give Douglas (and Sergio, for that matter) the playing time that can answer your question.

Sit Duhon, and limit House's minutes to backup time at SG. Let Sergio and Douglas compete- Alternate games so that one can get about 30MPG while the other gets about 20MPG, and then flip flop the numbers the next game.

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misterearl
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3/14/2010  10:13 PM
Jarvis Varnado's Box Score

18 points (8-13 shooting), 9 rebounds, 2 steals, and 5 blocks (two of which were impressive rejections of John Wall)

I'm jus sayin, 5 blocks is kinda tasty

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Olbrannon
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3/15/2010  8:31 AM
misterearl wrote:Jarvis Varnado's Box Score

18 points (8-13 shooting), 9 rebounds, 2 steals, and 5 blocks (two of which were impressive rejections of John Wall)

I'm jus sayin, 5 blocks is kinda tasty

The skinny- takes too many plays off. This one has all the tools but his motor is in question. Especially against lesser foes. Does show up for the bright lights so...

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
iSergio
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3/15/2010  9:19 AM
Toney Douglas has reminded me a lot of Derek Harper these last 2 games.
Can Toney Douglas Make The Guys Around Him Better? Lets Ask Al Harrington...

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