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OT: Darren Collison putting on a show vs. the Mavs on ESPN
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TMS
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2/28/2010  11:59 PM
new season high, 32 pts. on 14 of 20 shooting so far with 2:49 left to play... he's going shot for shot with Dirk Digler

jeez louis, i had a feeling this kid would be good but not THIS good... he keeps playing like this & he's gonna make the Hornets wanna trade CP3.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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Juice
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3/1/2010  12:37 AM
Worst Drafting Staff of All-Time Past Two Years. They've Been Nothing More Than A Complete Joke


Donnie Walsh met with his entire U.S.-based scouting department Wednesday to discuss the future and perhaps one glaring mistake from the not-so-distant past.

"I'm pretty sure the name Darren Collison will come up," said one team official.

The decision to pass on Collison in June's draft has backfired for the Knicks, and Walsh has not been shy about assigning blame to members of his scouting department, many of whom are holdovers from the Isiah Thomas administration.

"I couldn't get a feel for his game," Walsh said of Collison. "One scout said he thought Darren Collison was very capable. I said, 'If he's starter material you should come in my door every five minutes and tell me.'"

Collison, who played a UCLA last season, was selected 21rst by New Orleans Hornets and has flourished in his rookie season. Meanwhile, the point guard-starved Knicks used the eighth pick on power forward Jordan Hill who was traded along with multiple picks to the Rockets

As the Knicks president, Walsh is ultimately responsible for the pick and yet he continues to hint that part of the problem lies within the scouting department he inherited. Mark Hughes, Rodney Heard, Walker D. Russell and Steve Yoder were all hired by Thomas. Russell, in fact, was believed to be one of Collison's voucher of support.

Dick and Scott McGuire are the longest-tenured scouts going back to the '90s. Walsh's hires were Ben Jobe, John Gabriel and Misho Ostarcevic, who runs the department. Walsh reportedly has been interested in hiring Chris Mullin, Billy King or Billy Knight as GM, but it is believed that Garden chairman James Dolan doesn't want to add front-office staff. According to a source, Dolan vetoed Walsh's plans to bring in George Felton as a scout last summer.

In a recent interview with SI.com, Walsh hinted that ownership wouldn't allow him to revamp the front office.

"I could have hired some amazing people," Walsh told SI.com. "But there are some things you can't ask the owner to do, and that's eat some of these (front-office and scouting department) numbers."

That Dolan would be loyal toward Thomas' hires is not surprising. Dolan continues to maintain a relationship with Thomas, the former Knicks coach and president who is now coaching Florida International University. Dolan dined with Thomas and invited him to be his guest for the Knicks' season opener in Miami on Oct. 28.

When Walsh was hired to run the Knicks, it was Dolan who insisted that Thomas have a role in the organization. Thomas was eventually reassigned to a consulting position, and according to a team source, had Thomas not accepted the FIU job he would have remained employed by the Knicks.

Judging from his recent comments, Walsh doesn't sound thrilled about having to retain all of Thomas' hires. But he may not have a choice.

Thomas and his staff are responsible for drafting Trevor Ariza, David Lee and Wilson Chandler. And it appears that some of those same scouts threw Darren Collison's name out there to see if he'd stick.

Perhaps they could have pushed harder or maybe they didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

"It's kind of like what I'm hearing with the players: They don't think they're going to be here, so they don't want to play hard," Walsh told SI.com. "I'm like, 'What are you talking about?' They've got to play hard, and I haven't said I wouldn't take them back (as free agents), because if they're good enough, that would be one of my options. So that doesn't compute to me, the same way if you've got scouts working for you - they work for the New York Knicks."

crzymdups
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3/1/2010  12:44 AM
^i seriously thought you just replaced the name "darren collinson" for "brandon jennings" - we saw the exact same damn article when jennings was playing well.

the fact that this team didn't SCOUR every point guard in the world, let alone two of the more famous prospects is just totally disheartening. it was so obvious that we were thin at guard and NEEDED an engine to run this team.

i really liked Collinson. i knew nothing about brandon jennings. then again, i'm not paid to know these things.

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Childs2Dudley
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3/1/2010  12:46 AM
crzymdups wrote:^i seriously thought you just replaced the name "darren collinson" for "brandon jennings" - we saw the exact same damn article when jennings was playing well.

the fact that this team didn't SCOUR every point guard in the world, let alone two of the more famous prospects is just totally disheartening. it was so obvious that we were thin at guard and NEEDED an engine to run this team.

i really liked Collinson. i knew nothing about brandon jennings. then again, i'm not paid to know these things.

He did.

"Our attitude toward life determines life's attitude towards us." - Earl Nightingale
crzymdups
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3/1/2010  12:48 AM
Childs2Dudley wrote:
crzymdups wrote:^i seriously thought you just replaced the name "darren collinson" for "brandon jennings" - we saw the exact same damn article when jennings was playing well.

the fact that this team didn't SCOUR every point guard in the world, let alone two of the more famous prospects is just totally disheartening. it was so obvious that we were thin at guard and NEEDED an engine to run this team.

i really liked Collinson. i knew nothing about brandon jennings. then again, i'm not paid to know these things.

He did.

well, the jokes on me then. oh wait, i'm a knicks fan. i'm used to it.

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SupremeCommander
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3/1/2010  2:15 AM
I sure as **** hope heads roll. That department should have been revamped a long time ago. Makes no ****ing sense that a team with so many ****ing resources has one of the worst scouting departments and medical departments in the league. What a ****ing ****ty ass joke
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Paladin55
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3/1/2010  3:55 AM
I hoped that Collison might have slipped to us at #29, but nobody thought of him as a top 10 Pick. If we had traded out of 8 and gotten a pick in the high teens plus a pick in 2010, I could have seen us taking Collison, but yeah, nobody thought he would do as well as he is doing now.

Some backcourt UCLA had- Collison and Holiday.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
TMS
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3/1/2010  6:38 AM
Paladin55 wrote:I hoped that Collison might have slipped to us at #29, but nobody thought of him as a top 10 Pick. If we had traded out of 8 and gotten a pick in the high teens plus a pick in 2010, I could have seen us taking Collison, but yeah, nobody thought he would do as well as he is doing now.

Some backcourt UCLA had- Collison and Holiday.

i agree... i had him pegged as a nice sleeper pick we could buy in the mid-late 20s or even early 2nd round... i didn't think he'd get taken by the Hornets at 21, especially when they already had the best PG in the game in CP3... turns out that was a genius move on their part.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Finestrg
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3/1/2010  8:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 3/1/2010  9:03 AM
Juice wrote:Worst Drafting Staff of All-Time Past Two Years. They've Been Nothing More Than A Complete Joke


Donnie Walsh met with his entire U.S.-based scouting department Wednesday to discuss the future and perhaps one glaring mistake from the not-so-distant past.

"I'm pretty sure the name Darren Collison will come up," said one team official.

The decision to pass on Collison in June's draft has backfired for the Knicks, and Walsh has not been shy about assigning blame to members of his scouting department, many of whom are holdovers from the Isiah Thomas administration.

"I couldn't get a feel for his game," Walsh said of Collison. "One scout said he thought Darren Collison was very capable. I said, 'If he's starter material you should come in my door every five minutes and tell me.'"

Collison, who played a UCLA last season, was selected 21rst by New Orleans Hornets and has flourished in his rookie season. Meanwhile, the point guard-starved Knicks used the eighth pick on power forward Jordan Hill who was traded along with multiple picks to the Rockets

As the Knicks president, Walsh is ultimately responsible for the pick and yet he continues to hint that part of the problem lies within the scouting department he inherited. Mark Hughes, Rodney Heard, Walker D. Russell and Steve Yoder were all hired by Thomas. Russell, in fact, was believed to be one of Collison's voucher of support.

Dick and Scott McGuire are the longest-tenured scouts going back to the '90s. Walsh's hires were Ben Jobe, John Gabriel and Misho Ostarcevic, who runs the department. Walsh reportedly has been interested in hiring Chris Mullin, Billy King or Billy Knight as GM, but it is believed that Garden chairman James Dolan doesn't want to add front-office staff. According to a source, Dolan vetoed Walsh's plans to bring in George Felton as a scout last summer.

In a recent interview with SI.com, Walsh hinted that ownership wouldn't allow him to revamp the front office.

"I could have hired some amazing people," Walsh told SI.com. "But there are some things you can't ask the owner to do, and that's eat some of these (front-office and scouting department) numbers."

That Dolan would be loyal toward Thomas' hires is not surprising. Dolan continues to maintain a relationship with Thomas, the former Knicks coach and president who is now coaching Florida International University. Dolan dined with Thomas and invited him to be his guest for the Knicks' season opener in Miami on Oct. 28.

When Walsh was hired to run the Knicks, it was Dolan who insisted that Thomas have a role in the organization. Thomas was eventually reassigned to a consulting position, and according to a team source, had Thomas not accepted the FIU job he would have remained employed by the Knicks.

Judging from his recent comments, Walsh doesn't sound thrilled about having to retain all of Thomas' hires. But he may not have a choice.

Thomas and his staff are responsible for drafting Trevor Ariza, David Lee and Wilson Chandler. And it appears that some of those same scouts threw Darren Collison's name out there to see if he'd stick.

Perhaps they could have pushed harder or maybe they didn't want to step on anyone's toes.

"It's kind of like what I'm hearing with the players: They don't think they're going to be here, so they don't want to play hard," Walsh told SI.com. "I'm like, 'What are you talking about?' They've got to play hard, and I haven't said I wouldn't take them back (as free agents), because if they're good enough, that would be one of my options. So that doesn't compute to me, the same way if you've got scouts working for you - they work for the New York Knicks."

Man, amen to that. The entire scouting department needed to be cleaned out - I mean by Donnie's own admission here....Man, terrible. Bottom line...Instead we retain the whole department (all Isiah guys I presume) and even retain IT himself, dispatching him to Europe to go look at prospects (with how everything went down with Zeke, how on Earth they could take any opinions from him on players is one of the biggest mysteries of all time -- I pray Zeke didn't have too much of a say when it came to Gallinari, but I have my fears ). I tell ya though, with Donnie knowing damn well he had sup-par eyes for talent on that staff, you would think both he and MDA would've worked overtime during the off-season going to look at prospects THEMSELVES and IN PERSON. And damn Dolan for not letting Walsh go all the way when it came to cleaning house...

I mean come on Donnie, don't insinuate in this article that you knew all along that you needed a major shakedown within your scouting department and then a couple of months ago before a game with the Bucks tell the beat writers that you never went to go see Brandon Jennings play yourself -- something's rotten in Denmark right there boy. I knew he was busy just taking over the team, but if he didn't have the confidence in his personnel but wasn't given the green light by the owner to clean house completely like he's hinting at here, take the time out to jump on a plane with your new coach (who you just paid all of that money to btw) and go to Italy to watch the guy play yourself. Why leave critical decisions like drafting a lottery prospect you desperately need to be a homerun up to a scouting team you didn't really have any confidence in right from the get-go?? And it's been allowed to go on for two drafts now -- the Gallinari draft and the Jennings draft (I still think Hill's gonna be decent though, but still -- and who the hell cares now, he's not our property anymore)... Still pisses me off. If Donnie needed to pull some double-duty for a couple of weeks along with his highly paid coach - they should've done it...I think Walsh has done a pretty decent job so far and I'm completely on board with his cap-cutting plan to improve the team, but this revelation here is really a disgrace.

Black eye on Donnie for not pulling double-duty to go look at prospects himself

Double black eye on Jimmy Dolan for being too cheap to allow Donnie to clean house properly and bring in all his own guys

MS
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3/1/2010  9:34 AM
I have no confidence in Donnie Walsh. How many great players can one guy miss out on. Collison is the real deal that kid can really handle the ball. All I know is that we should have a double double machine at pf in blair a solid point guard in jennings/lawson/collison and a starting center in Lopez or a great combo talent in AR.

Gallo isn't very good. I have been wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt and not compare him to Jason Kapono who he resemebles at times but it's becoming very hard. He needs to drop a few pounds and get aggressive. If you over play him he can't seem to do anything. The same way i though hill loooked like Miki Moore, which he did this kid is really scaring me.

Can someone explain why we drafted Toney Douglas if he isn't going to play him. The Nate trade was so pointless. Eddie House is a gunner compared to Nate and a Mike favorite go figure.

It's not for fetched to say you grab the two most important positions. I would rather have the following than room for another max free agent

Lopez
Blair
Chandler
Jennings or Lawson

With the ability to move Lee for help at the guard position. At least you have a maturing team with actual positions unlike what we have here.

iSergio
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3/1/2010  9:38 AM
Darren Collison has really surprised me. I was never impressed with him at UCLA. I thought he was going to be a solid backup. He just never did anything to 'WOW' me. But he's a VERY good player. Which is cool because it means Chris Paul will be on the market maybe as soon as this summer.
Juice
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3/1/2010  11:26 AM
MS wrote:I have no confidence in Donnie Walsh. How many great players can one guy miss out on. Collison is the real deal that kid can really handle the ball. All I know is that we should have a double double machine at pf in blair a solid point guard in jennings/lawson/collison and a starting center in Lopez or a great combo talent in AR.

Gallo isn't very good. I have been wanting to give him the benefit of the doubt and not compare him to Jason Kapono who he resemebles at times but it's becoming very hard. He needs to drop a few pounds and get aggressive. If you over play him he can't seem to do anything. The same way i though hill loooked like Miki Moore, which he did this kid is really scaring me.

Can someone explain why we drafted Toney Douglas if he isn't going to play him. The Nate trade was so pointless. Eddie House is a gunner compared to Nate and a Mike favorite go figure.

It's not for fetched to say you grab the two most important positions. I would rather have the following than room for another max free agent

Lopez
Blair
Chandler
Jennings or Lawson

With the ability to move Lee for help at the guard position. At least you have a maturing team with actual positions unlike what we have here.


Nobody is saying Collison was an obvious no brainer talent that should have been selected in the lottery but DID WE EVEN BRING HIM IN FOR A THOROUGH LOOK. I mean for cryin out loud we went through 2yrs of EPIC TRAVESTY watching Duhon not fulfill point guard duties even on a backup level. We could have traded pick 8 and 29 and 2010 second for pick 15, 35, 39, and maybe 44 from Detroit. It could have resulted in Collison,Maynor,Jrue,Lawson,Teague,Beuabois/Blair/Buddinger/Thornton..... but we never think outside the box. Our GM was kind of play it safe this whole time with a go ALL-IN plan for cap space. He did nothing innovative, nothing that showed signs he has a quick thinking sharp mind like some of these younger GMs. Now look at all the prospects we could have had on deck. We could have S&T Lee and Nate this summer for whatever kind of picks/filler players assuming we'd still have roster space. Now if we don't land any Max Players we have a fully rebuilt team with future assets on deck.


Our GM Stay Taken L....... ABCDEFGHIJKMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ

blkexec
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3/1/2010  12:25 PM
Assuming we still have a second round pick.

This shows you can find a talented point guard in the second round.

It seems like the pg's with 4 yrs under their built, would be a great pickup.

At least, thats the case for the rookie pg's this year.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Juice
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3/1/2010  12:46 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/1/2010  12:57 PM
blkexec wrote:Assuming we still have a second round pick.

This shows you can find a talented point guard in the second round.

It seems like the pg's with 4 yrs under their built, would be a great pickup.

At least, thats the case for the rookie pg's this year.

He was a first round pick, he just wasn't a lottery pick. Nevertheless there's been nothing impressive about our last two drafts, absolutely nothing.

kam77
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3/1/2010  12:54 PM    LAST EDITED: 3/1/2010  12:55 PM
Our hindsight is an impressive 20/20
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Juice
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3/1/2010  12:59 PM
kam77 wrote:Our hindsight is an impressive 20/20


There's nothing hindsighting about passing on legit point guards. If we didn't want one at 8 trade down and get one you want later while being compensated it's done a lot in drafts. We needed a real point guard for two yrs. No one is saying Collison should have been our man versus being in our mix. We were too busy trying to pick up Peter Pan and Harry Potter.

MS
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3/1/2010  1:04 PM
Not in the least bit. Walsh took two players in this draft. We are a lottery team and weak at the guard position. Why can't Dougals play? Because we are looking at Bill Walker?

Jordan Hill sucks. He couldn't play here and he can't play in Houston. He is one of the few lottery picks that can't make a contribution. Thabeet was garbage and I think most people would have stayed away from.

The Nets have a center developing into an All-Star and we have a scared outside shooter that can't shoot. His shooting percentage is terrible and he dissapears on a nightly basis.

Is this very concerning. The answer is yes.

Our biggest need going into the offseason was a lead point guard. Jennings has the Bucks over .500 and Lawson was killing it as a starter when Billups went down and has been leading that team nicely off the bench. Collison is averaging 18pts 8ass since Paul went down. Donnie felt the need to draft Hill who couldn't play without tripping over himself and caught the ball like he was missing thumbs.

So when you have a chance to get a center and a point and come away with Gallo and cap space it's troubling. As is the fact that at 23 years of age Toney Douglas can't crack a rotation on one of the worst teams in the league.

So going into the offseason we are offering bad weather, high taxes and Danillo and Wilson Chandler. If Lebron somehow comes here then Walsh is teh executive of the decade. But, if he doesn't we have wasted a lottery pick and 2 draft picks, most likely lost out All-Star in free agency and gave away a big man that get's you 20pts 10rbs.

Walsh has not proven to evaluate. He clears. His trades have been puzzling, his free agent pickups horrible and his drafting his droppped the ball. Scout the player yourself. I can't imagine you don't have time to watch some tapes on the treadmill or couch.

Pharzeone
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3/1/2010  1:14 PM
I just can't believe Donnie wasn't aware of these point guards. I heard him lay the blame on Isiah's people but from my understanding he announced more than a year ago that he would be doing scouting personally along with his scouts rather than rely on video tapes like he had to do for the 2008 draft. This notion that he wasn't allow to bring in his people is not accurate because he brought in the guy from Orlando who he liked and two other guys from the Pacers. Mike had his brother available who he used in Phoenix to help scout talent as well. Seems like he is passing the buck for miss opportunities. Nothing new with Donnie when he tried to pass the buck about not getting Prince and taking Fred Jones instead. Those scouts were all his hires and begged him to take Tayshaun.
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Nalod
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3/1/2010  1:15 PM
Thabeet at the 2 spot is a bad call.

Lets all look at only the good suprises and forget the rest.

Walsh better Thomas's minions in line.

Pharzeone
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3/1/2010  1:48 PM
Nalod wrote:Thabeet at the 2 spot is a bad call.

Lets all look at only the good suprises and forget the rest.

Walsh better Thomas's minions in line.

Thabeet at 2 is bad. He was falling like a brick but all a sudden the Grizzlies make the call. The dumbest thing with Gasol improving as well. I'm not sure if they thought they could get away with Gasol at the 4. The Z-Bo trade saved them from disaster. I can't recall if Thabeet was even working out for teams. I guess he got that promise.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
OT: Darren Collison putting on a show vs. the Mavs on ESPN

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