[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

+/-, What does it all mean?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
Sangfroid
Posts: 24681
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/7/2009
Member: #2784
2/26/2010  10:39 PM
I see this thrown around in several posts, but I don't understand it. Can someone shed light on it/ How it's determined? What's so important about it? Thanks.
"We are playing a game. We are playing at not playing a game..."
AUTOADVERT
K22
Posts: 25143
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/18/2006
Member: #1182
USA
2/26/2010  10:43 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/26/2010  10:49 PM
Sangfroid wrote:I see this thrown around in several posts, but I don't understand it. Can someone shed light on it/ How it's determined? What's so important about it? Thanks.

Point differential whenever you're on the floor. So when you have a +10 for a game, it means your team outscored your opponent by 10 whenever you were on the floor. If you have a -10, your team was outscored by 10 with you on the floor.

That's why you see guys like Anderson Varejao, Shane Battier and even our old friend Jared Jeffries have high +/- even though they don't fill up the real stat sheet.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
arkrud
Posts: 32217
Alba Posts: 7
Joined: 8/31/2005
Member: #995
USA
2/26/2010  10:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/26/2010  11:01 PM
Now you will see why we are bad and who are the worst.
Gallinari is the truth - having -31 on team so bad and playing 3rd minutes... WOW this is impressive.
JJ is looking not bad also...
Lee is not bad... but his defense making him look bad... and we know it is. 



Player 	         Team	+	-	+/-	Min      	+/-/Min	G		
									
M. Landry	Knicks	243	-234	9	107:49:00	0.083	17		
B. Walker	Knicks	29	-30	-1	12:42	        -0.078	1		
T. McGrady	Knicks	176	-181	-5	88:38:00         -0.056	3		
E. House	         Knicks	178	-187	-9	94:04:00         -0.095	3		
N. Robinson	Knicks	1,566	-1,586	-20	733:28:00	-0.027	30		
E. Curry   	Knicks	113	-134	-21	62:01:00 	-0.338	7		
J. Hill	         Knicks	502	-526	-24	252:05:00	-0.095	24		
J. Jeffries	Knicks	2,990	-3,016	-26	1461:53:00	-0.017	52		
D. Milicic	Knicks	132	-158	-26	70:49:00 	-0.367	8		
S. Rodriguez	Knicks	168	-196	-28	92:30:00 	-0.302	3		
D. Gallinari	Knicks	3,710	-3,741	-31	1774:11:00	-0.017	55		
L. Hughes	Knicks	1,729	-1,778	-49	819:49:00	-0.059	31		
J. Bender	Knicks	497	-562	-65	255:37:00	-0.254	21		
T. Douglas	Knicks	872	-968	-96	429:07:00	-0.223	32		
D. Lee	         Knicks	4,351	-4,465	-114	2073:56:00	-0.054	56		
A. Harrington	Knicks	3,262	-3,384	-122	1551:51:00	-0.078	52		
W. Chandler	Knicks	4,055	-4,186	-131	1963:09:00	-0.066	56		
C. Duhon	         Knicks	3,682	-3,813	-131	1771:14:00	-0.073	54
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/27/2010  12:39 AM
pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
WindsorPl
Posts: 20413
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/12/2009
Member: #2799
USA
2/27/2010  12:41 AM
These are misleading stats on a losing team. makes more sense on winning team.
SupremeCommander
Posts: 34071
Alba Posts: 35
Joined: 4/28/2006
Member: #1127
2/27/2010  2:00 AM
+/- was a pretty big hockey stat for a lot of years. At incept, the idea was it would track defensive ability. That proved inaccurate. What +/- does is chart how a certain player's team performs when he is on the ocurt
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Cosmic
Posts: 26570
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 3/17/2006
Member: #1115
USA
2/27/2010  6:24 AM
+/- is a useless basketball stat. A great player who plays for a crappy team that loses a game by 50 will have a horrible +/- stat. It indicates NOTHING.

Which is why I tell people to stay the hell away from 82games.com and go to the site in my signature.

GAME FLOWS. Now this shows you what is going on in a game. Not some +/- umbrella stat.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
Cosmic
Posts: 26570
Alba Posts: 27
Joined: 3/17/2006
Member: #1115
USA
2/27/2010  6:24 AM    LAST EDITED: 2/27/2010  6:25 AM
http://popcornmachine.net/

Make sure you mouse-over every damn thing on the game flow pages. Nice detailed info pops up when you do.

http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
Andrew
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #1
USA
2/27/2010  8:05 AM
TMS wrote:pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.

YOu need to look at the +- per minute stat. They are not at the bottom in that category.

PURE KNICKS LOVE
markvmc
Posts: 22004
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 1/6/2008
Member: #1797
2/27/2010  11:46 AM
Or look at the adjusted +/-, designed to correct for quality of teammates, and opposing players on the floor at the same time.


http://basketballvalue.com/teamunits.php?year=2009-2010&team=NYK
misterearl
Posts: 38786
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/16/2004
Member: #799
USA
2/27/2010  1:27 PM
+/- stats:

were not invented for Oscar Robertson, Jerry Lucas or Willis Reed

were invented for Chris Dudley, Neal Walk and Jared Jeffries

don't excite The Answer Man unless the + leads directly to the Knicks winning more basketball games

won't earn you an award at the Oscars, The Emmys, The Soul Train Music Awards or the ESPYs

have no relation to making the playoffs

are for suckers who trade cards instead of watching team chemistry

don't mean a thing

once a knick always a knick
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/27/2010  5:20 PM
Andrew wrote:
TMS wrote:pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.

YOu need to look at the +- per minute stat. They are not at the bottom in that category.

then that would make everyone's favorite new toy Sergio the worst active player on our roster.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/27/2010  5:44 PM
TMS wrote:
Andrew wrote:
TMS wrote:pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.

YOu need to look at the +- per minute stat. They are not at the bottom in that category.

then that would make everyone's favorite new toy Sergio the worst active player on our roster.

why can't people be happy to get a PG that they think might be worth something in sergio? why does he have to be a new toy?

couldn't the same be said for you if we got camby? would that be your favorite new toy? or for me if we got jared back

i don't get your deal lately tms, you've always been a pretty chill dude...

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/27/2010  5:59 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:
Andrew wrote:
TMS wrote:pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.

YOu need to look at the +- per minute stat. They are not at the bottom in that category.

then that would make everyone's favorite new toy Sergio the worst active player on our roster.

why can't people be happy to get a PG that they think might be worth something in sergio? why does he have to be a new toy?

couldn't the same be said for you if we got camby? would that be your favorite new toy? or for me if we got jared back

i don't get your deal lately tms, you've always been a pretty chill dude...

when Sergio shows me he's worth getting excited about, i will... i don't get excited over new players just because they're new... so far i have seen him do some good things by pushing the tempo but i've also seen him do some bad things like play out of control & try to force passes into players who covered in the paint... i want to see a real floor general before i start riding his jock... why is that a problem? just because you wanted this kid here for the longest doesn't mean i share in your enthusiasm over having him here... you didn't seem to have a problem taking shots at players you weren't too excited over either, so i would expect u to understand when not everyone shares in your enthusiasm over players u are high on... when Sergio shows me he can be a longterm solution, i'll be the first to voice my excitement... until then he's a wait & see for me... this has nothing to do with my being chill bro & i've been posting the same way lately as i have been since i joined this forum... if anything i've toned it down a little with cats around here.

After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/27/2010  6:02 PM
TMS wrote:
nyk4ever wrote:
TMS wrote:
Andrew wrote:
TMS wrote:pretty misleading stat unless u think Chandler & D Lee are 2 of our worst players.

YOu need to look at the +- per minute stat. They are not at the bottom in that category.

then that would make everyone's favorite new toy Sergio the worst active player on our roster.

why can't people be happy to get a PG that they think might be worth something in sergio? why does he have to be a new toy?

couldn't the same be said for you if we got camby? would that be your favorite new toy? or for me if we got jared back

i don't get your deal lately tms, you've always been a pretty chill dude...

when Sergio shows me he's worth getting excited about, i will... i don't get excited over new players just because they're new... so far i have seen him do some good things by pushing the tempo but i've also seen him do some bad things like play out of control & try to force passes into players who covered in the paint... i want to see a real floor general before i start riding his jock... why is that a problem? just because you wanted this kid here for the longest doesn't mean i share in your enthusiasm over having him here... you didn't seem to have a problem taking shots at players you weren't too excited over either, so i would expect u to understand when not everyone shares in your enthusiasm over players u are high on... when Sergio shows me he can be a longterm solution, i'll be the first to voice my excitement... until then he's a wait & see for me... this has nothing to do with my being chill bro & i've been posting the same way lately as i have been since i joined this forum... if anything i've toned it down a little with cats around here.

see this is what i don't get. nowhere did i mention that you had to like sergio and it has nothing to do with my wanting him before hand.. i just don't get why you're being so vicious that people are only excited to see what he can do - i don't think it really extends farther than that.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/27/2010  6:12 PM
what's so vicious about calling Sergio everyone's new favorite toy? it's true... people got so hyped over having this kid who hasn't shown anything since he's been in the league to get excited over... i got no problem if you like the guy, but personally i think the enthusiasm is way premature... i would understand if this guy was a rookie prospect but this guy has 4 years of NBA experience & has been nothing but a 3rd string backup wherever he's gone... i didn't insult anyone who was high on him, just putting the toy label on him because i find most of the excitement based on hype over substance when the empirical evidence would seem to suggest he's not going to develop into much more than a backup solution for us over the longterm... i have yet to see what others are so excited about in Sergio & i'm hoping to see it in the coming games.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/27/2010  6:42 PM
TMS wrote:what's so vicious about calling Sergio everyone's new favorite toy? it's true... people got so hyped over having this kid who hasn't shown anything since he's been in the league to get excited over... i got no problem if you like the guy, but personally i think the enthusiasm is way premature... i would understand if this guy was a rookie prospect but this guy has 4 years of NBA experience & has been nothing but a 3rd string backup wherever he's gone... i didn't insult anyone who was high on him, just putting the toy label on him because i find most of the excitement based on hype over substance when the empirical evidence would seem to suggest he's not going to develop into much more than a backup solution for us over the longterm... i have yet to see what others are so excited about in Sergio & i'm hoping to see it in the coming games.

i getcha bro. im hoping for the best with sergio, i think he can do it, but who knows.

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
2/27/2010  6:47 PM
anyway, this whole discussion is about the flaw in judging players based on their +/- stats & i made the comment in response to Andrew's point above... this is not me bashing on Sergio
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
Posts: 41010
Alba Posts: 12
Joined: 1/12/2005
Member: #848
USA
2/27/2010  6:50 PM
TMS wrote:anyway, this whole discussion is about the flaw in judging players based on their +/- stats & i made the comment in response to Andrew's point above... this is not me bashing on Sergio

bro, just let the bukkake fall where it may

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
crzymdups
Posts: 52018
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 5/1/2004
Member: #671
USA
2/27/2010  6:51 PM
i think plus/minus is kind of useless. it shows winning teams outscore losing teams. i don't think it goes very far to explain why winning teams outscore losing teams.
¿ △ ?
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
+/-, What does it all mean?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy