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If we struck out on the big names and went for Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer - did we fail?
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Cosmic
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Good chance Amare joins LeBron and Bosh joins Wade leaving us out of the top tier of FA's.

If we struck out on the big names and went for Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer - did we fail?

Yep, failure.
Nope, that'd be fine.
I'd rather wait for 2011 than spend in 2010.
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Pharzeone
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2/13/2010  6:45 PM
Don't call me a hater for this. But Joe Johnson is not leaving Atlanta. Less money to come to NY, lives and is very respected in what they refer to as Black Hollywood, loves the city and atmosphere and without Vick in that city, he has a very prominent role. I think a lot of JJ leaving Atlanta talk comes from NY reporters who really don't know the guy's makeup and background story.

Boozer will go anywhere that he is able to cash his checks. I would call this a fail.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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itchetrigr
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2/13/2010  6:53 PM
i dont think joe johnson can carry a team to the promise land, and boozer is passed his prime at this point...

did we fail? if our plan was to land a superstar like talent in their prime, "bron, wade, bosh, kobe, durant, melo" then we're back at square one, keeping our contracts light and expiring till we get lucky enough and draft one or sign one via FA...
Cosmic
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2/13/2010  6:54 PM
Hatter.

Racist Hatter.

Passionate Prideful Racist Hatter.


....but yeah I didn't put into thought who might stay or go. I was just speaking out loud as to what people though if we missed out on the top tier FAs but still scored two second tier FAs.

Whether or not players would leave or go wherever wasn't part of the point I'm trying to see here.

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Pharzeone
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2/13/2010  7:01 PM
Cosmic wrote:Hatter.

Racist Hatter.

Passionate Prideful Racist Hatter.


....but yeah I didn't put into thought who might stay or go. I was just speaking out loud as to what people though if we missed out on the top tier FAs but still scored two second tier FAs.

Whether or not players would leave or go wherever wasn't part of the point I'm trying to see here.

Oh, yeah I see. Yeah that would be a pretty bad letdown to what Donnie hinted at when he arrived.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TheGame
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2/13/2010  7:04 PM
I doubt Johnson leaves Atlanta and Boozer would not really be an upgrade over Lee. I think Boozer is slightly better, but they both don't play defense or block shots (though Boozer might be slightly better than Lee on D). Boozer is not worth the money. We might as well resign Lee. If Walsh cannot get Bosh and Lebron, then the strategy failed, bottomline.
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arkrud
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2/13/2010  7:05 PM
I think if our onlty goal is to get big FAs we already failed regardless.
Players come and go but great orgaizations persists.
If we will build an organization that is respected and taken seriously by NBA this will be success.
We used to be one of those and we had to get back with leBron of without.
We get read of so much emberrasment already and we have a lot of work to do to get read of the rest.
We need to start feeling the void and this where the big test will come.
And all this will take time - much more that 2 years.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Cosmic
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2/13/2010  7:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/13/2010  7:06 PM
So

Hill
Boozer
Gallo
Johnson
--pg--

Wouldn't excite you as a fan.

I don't blame you.

(Or Hill, Lee, Gallo, Johnson, PG) <--- something like this.

Besides if we tanked 2010-2011 after striking out we got our 2011 pick to use and Melo on the FA Wish List horizon at that point.

I highly doubt such a tactic would be embraced though. So I bet Donnie signs whoever is there to be signed.

As long as we don't pull a Chicago Bulls 'Damn, nobody wants our money, hey Jalen Rose, want the max? Cool, you got it!!!" scenario. ((joe johnson comes to mind in this scenario))

Yeah, then, **** it. We're in trouble.

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Cosmic
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2/13/2010  7:10 PM
TheGame wrote:I doubt Johnson leaves Atlanta and Boozer would not really be an upgrade over Lee. I think Boozer is slightly better, but they both don't play defense or block shots (though Boozer might be slightly better than Lee on D). Boozer is not worth the money. We might as well resign Lee. If Walsh cannot get Bosh and Lebron, then the strategy failed, bottomline.

We have to remember the priority wasn't to try to score LeBron or Bosh or Wade at all costs.

The strategy was to put an end to the nightmare business practices that put us in this mess.

Isiah Thomas had a 146M payroll at one point and 23 wins. That had to stop no matter what.

So you got to keep in mind that is priority #1. Put an end to the mistakes. Restore order and financial freedom.

Now, I think some people are clouded by the fact that our day of financial freedom lines up with such a high class of free agents. It wasn't by design but it's a nice situation to be in.

If we strike out you can't just bash Donnie's plan.

What was the alternative? Try to recycle Marbury's expiring and add to Zach, Crawford, Curry, QBrick? To do what? Still lose terribly?

Come'on....no way.

This tear down HAD to happen no matter what 2010 brings. It had to be done. It should have been done instead of shipping Ewing out. It should have been done lining up with the end of 2007 (where everyone expired) instead of turning all those expirings into 2011 nightmare contracts.

IT HAS TO BE DONE. And it's being done.

Striking out in the coveted 2010 FA class doesn't make the plan a failure in my eyes because we had to do this regardless. We had to start over. HAD TO.

What we should do is view it as an added bonus it happened on the eve of the greatest FA class in some time! Not...as an end all to grading the plan.

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Pharzeone
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2/13/2010  7:15 PM
Cosmic wrote:So

Hill
Boozer
Gallo
Johnson
--pg--

Wouldn't excite you as a fan.

I don't blame you.

(Or Hill, Lee, Gallo, Johnson, PG) <--- something like this.

Besides if we tanked 2010-2011 after striking out we got our 2011 pick to use and Melo on the FA Wish List horizon at that point.

I highly doubt such a tactic would be embraced though. So I bet Donnie signs whoever is there to be signed.

As long as we don't pull a Chicago Bulls 'Damn, nobody wants our money, hey Jalen Rose, want the max? Cool, you got it!!!" scenario. ((joe johnson comes to mind in this scenario))

Yeah, then, **** it. We're in trouble.

I think that is my nightmare but I see it coming. That's why I want Walsh to stay the hell away from T-Mac. I can see it now. T-Mac shows a glimmer of his former self, Lebron and Amare are high fiving each other, Wade sipping on his Mojito with Bosh on the beach and Donnie in full panic mode. Recipe for disaster.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
AnubisADL
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2/13/2010  7:20 PM
Lee and Boozer are pretty much even now if you factor in Boozer's injury history.

Joe Johnson likes to dribble to much and he isnt all that. Dude is getting old.

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djsunyc
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2/13/2010  7:41 PM
i am very curious to see what would happen to knicks fans if they don't land one of the big guns...

i think it would sink fans to a new low point b/c it would effectively kill all hopes that players want to come to ny...
Cosmic
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2/13/2010  8:53 PM
Some would freak others won't.

I won't. I'd be disappointed but I stand firm in the belief that we had to tear down the mess to the very ground and start over.

What happens from there is irrelevant in terms of what HAD to be done. Anyone come October 2010 looking back and saying "Oh damn, why didn't we keep Zach and Craw and try to trade Marbury for Maggette and SJackson!" need their heads checked. Cause that was just what we were going to do with Isiah still in charge.

It's never a given we can build a winner but it WAS a given we couldn't build a winner the way we were going. Adding a piece at a time to a broken down rotten core of a team. We knew that was going nowhere. So it had to stop.

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knickstorrents
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2/13/2010  10:02 PM
No regrets, and not a failure. We can only control certain things, and I think we are doing a good job of controlling salary and building a good organization for the future. I think our scouting needs help (is Isaiah still helping here? I hope so), and we should probably be doing more with the D-League than we do (e.g, Houston runs the same plays their real team plays in their D-League team so when any of them get called up, they get to play right away).

D'Antoni definitely needs to learn how to incorporate more players in a rotation - Gentry plays 10 guys with no ill-effects and he was tutored by D'Antoni, so I don't see what the issue is.

But anyway, Joe Johnson and Carlos Boozer aren't the guys we want... they can't take over games and aren't big upgrades over people we already have (Chandler, Lee). We just need to be patient, and build up a better international talent scouting presence and just be more resourceful overall. Once we have cap, we have flexibility but we're not quite there yet.

So bottom line, we only fail if we aren't patient and get people like Johnson and Boozer. We'd be better off sitting tight than signing guys who can't take over games in Q4.

Rose is not the answer.
TMS
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2/13/2010  10:18 PM
of course that's a fail... if we wanted to end up w/players like Carlos Boozer, we could have just held onto Zach Randolph instead... if we settle for players on Boozer's level as our "big name acquisition" this summer, Donnie's entire plan is a total fail IMHO... i would much rather just wait it out for another season & suck in 2010 since we do own our draft pick next year & keep our cap flexibility for Melo.
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Markji
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2/13/2010  10:22 PM
The plan was worth taking so I say Donnie did the correct thing. I will be disappointed however if we don't get either Lebron, or Wade, (maybe Bosh included also) because we could have just kept Zach and Jamal and competed for these past 2 years. And then all of the long-term contracts would expire in 2011 and we could be there to sign the FA then. (Curry, Jeffries, Zach, Crawford all expire in 2011.)
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oohah
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2/13/2010  11:05 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/13/2010  11:25 PM
AnubisADL wrote:Lee and Boozer are pretty much even now if you factor in Boozer's injury history.

If you consider that Boozer is a player who has done it vs. double-teams for the past 4-5 years as the man in the middle on good teams not awful ones, I would say that Boozer is clearly a better player than Lee, who is having his stats pumped well beyond his true ability, his true impact or what he should even fairly be expected to produce.

oohah

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Uptown
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2/13/2010  11:21 PM
TMS wrote:of course that's a fail... if we wanted to end up w/players like Carlos Boozer, we could have just held onto Zach Randolph instead... if we settle for players on Boozer's level as our "big name acquisition" this summer, Donnie's entire plan is a total fail IMHO... i would much rather just wait it out for another season & suck in 2010 since we do own our draft pick next year & keep our cap flexibility for Melo.


Would you really want to be bad for another year and wait for 2011? Coming into this season everyone knew we would suck, yet people on this forum are ready to throw MDA and Walsh off of a bridge despite knowing the circumstances of this season. I cant imgaine what it would be like if we missed out on one of the big FA's this summer and have to deal with another season of bad play. NY fans are very impatient.
Pharzeone
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2/13/2010  11:31 PM
Uptown wrote:
TMS wrote:of course that's a fail... if we wanted to end up w/players like Carlos Boozer, we could have just held onto Zach Randolph instead... if we settle for players on Boozer's level as our "big name acquisition" this summer, Donnie's entire plan is a total fail IMHO... i would much rather just wait it out for another season & suck in 2010 since we do own our draft pick next year & keep our cap flexibility for Melo.


Would you really want to be bad for another year and wait for 2011? Coming into this season everyone knew we would suck, yet people on this forum are ready to throw MDA and Walsh off of a bridge despite knowing the circumstances of this season. I cant imgaine what it would be like if we missed out on one of the big FA's this summer and have to deal with another season of bad play. NY fans are very impatient.

I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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2/13/2010  11:37 PM    LAST EDITED: 2/13/2010  11:37 PM
Uptown wrote:
TMS wrote:of course that's a fail... if we wanted to end up w/players like Carlos Boozer, we could have just held onto Zach Randolph instead... if we settle for players on Boozer's level as our "big name acquisition" this summer, Donnie's entire plan is a total fail IMHO... i would much rather just wait it out for another season & suck in 2010 since we do own our draft pick next year & keep our cap flexibility for Melo.


Would you really want to be bad for another year and wait for 2011? Coming into this season everyone knew we would suck, yet people on this forum are ready to throw MDA and Walsh off of a bridge despite knowing the circumstances of this season. I cant imgaine what it would be like if we missed out on one of the big FA's this summer and have to deal with another season of bad play. NY fans are very impatient.

i don't have a problem w/this team being bad... i have a problem w/how MDA has handled the players on this team... if he were developing the young kids & letting them learn on the job, i'd be fine w/this team sucking the way they have... if he hadn't jerked around players to cause controversy where there was none needed, i wouldn't have had any issues w/MDA.

btw, i don't have any problems w/DW other than passing up on AI this season... but if MDA had played the young kids like he said he would then passing up on AI would have at least made sense.

yes, i would definitely rather suck another year than settle for guys like Joe Johnson & Carlos Boozer as our starphuch solution this summer... at least we'd have our lottery pick next season... figures we'd miss out on a tremendous draft w/talent like Wall, Johnson, Turner, Favors, Cousins, Patterson & that Euro kid, but it's better than nothing... starphuching for 2nd & 3rd tier talent is no different than what we've been trying to do all through the Layden & Isiah eras, & that got us absolutely nowhere... don't repeat the mistakes of the past.

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Sangfroid
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2/14/2010  9:05 AM
I think going for the 3rd and 4th tier player makes little sense this year. I would rather start from the bottom and build from there. Why pay top dollar for flawed players, instead of getting young, hungry guys a la Houston or OKC. We have a good base with Will, Gallo, Hill and TD. We desperately need an orchestrator (Vasquez from Maryland?) and then a strong C if J Hill doesn't pan out in that role. If we get just one max player, we are positioned to improve again in '11, provided that we don't take the knee jerk reaction this year.
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