Spree does more of the little things that helps his team win, EVERY night. He plays to his game. If he is not shooting well, he defends, passes and rebounds....check that stat too.

If we are gonna compare win/loss records, then it's a wrap. This thread can be put out of its misery.

Spree haters have no ground to stand on, comparing a 21-10 record to a 14-20 one. To call it silly would be an understatement.

We need to be trying to figure out how the Knicks can tweak the roster so we can win gams on a consistent basis like Minnesota is definitely doing.

Oldfan, I am curious where you got those stats. I believe them and want to know more about them. I feel that KVH just isn't a great or even a very good player. Last night's game was a good example. Got his 25, and even hit a big 3 in crunch time, but made a number of bonehead little plays ... turnovers, ticky-tack fouls, missed open shots ... that helped turn the momementum the wrong way.

People point to inconsistency. People say he disappears during games, particularly crunch time. With you, Oldfan. Don't believe he does either more than most players. I think he just lacks a feel for the game.

Hate to bring up the race issue, but I think people expect him to be gym-rat type who makes the most of his athleticism because he's white and can shoot, so when he fails, they put it on him being soft. I don't think he's soft. He's an excellent rebounder for a guy as skinny as he is, he goes to the hole hard when he knows he'll get leveled, and he doesn't shy away from taking big shots ... and he hits enough of them. Problem is, he's got a low basketball IQ. And not just at crunch time. Even when he's shooting well, he'll make a half dozen kind of stupid plays a game that can kill his team.

Personally, I think people make their decisions on a player then pick the facts that suit there argument. I like KVH and SPREE. I just find myself defending KVH at times because I think he gets more flak then he deserves.

Last night is a perfect example if Spree plays the same game KVH did last night. I believe it would have been viewed he had a great game but couldn't be expected to carry the team the whole game - plus he got jobbed with a charging/blocking call on a great Jam. But if KVH does it the focus is on his misplays - not the fact the he get them in the game.

As far as the scoring stats I just pulled the data into EXCEL and calculated the standard deviation. But you can basically see it just looking at the log of games. Spree almost always scores either 15 or less or 20 or more. He is rarely near his average he either has a good game or a bad game.

Spree is a more consistent scorer for two reasons: 1) He takes the ball to the basket more (although not as much as when he was younger); and 2) He gets more points off his defense.

If Van Horn would make up his mind to stop settling for outside shots on a regular basis, my view of him could change, but I haven't seen him do that for more than a few games at a time.

We need to stop the hating all around and stop trying to compare KVH and Spree. They are different kinds of players and bring different qualities.

We can say that this one is on a losing team and that one is on a winning team and say that it is because of this one player. The reality is that both have been on winning and losing teams.

KVH has never lived up to expectations. He's not that bad really, but given the expectations and the salary, many are disappointed in him. I never heard much good about him before he played for the Knicks and was starting to believe he really sucks, but he has shown what he's capable of these past few games.

He's been scoring 20+ points and has helped his team to win. I still haven't seen him hit the clutch shot, and I've seen him taken out of his game (last night there was a significant drop of in performance after he got hit in the eye, for example) but I think he's a good player who has helped this team to win when he plays well.

Stop the hating.

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by Rich:

Spree is a more consistent scorer for two reasons: 1) He takes the ball to the basket more (although not as much as when he was younger); and 2) He gets more points off his defense.

If Van Horn would make up his mind to stop settling for outside shots on a regular basis, my view of him could change, but I haven't seen him do that for more than a few games at a time.

The stats say just the opposite.
KVH SPREE
Jump Shots 66% 83%
CLOSE 30% 15%
Dunk 3% 1%
Tips 1% 1%

KVH goes inside a lot more then Spree. Spree is a jump shooter - when he was younger he went to the hoop more.

Are those this year's stats? If so, I stand corrected.

As I posted, I agree that he did go to the hoop more when he was younger.

Posted by Rich:

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by Rich:

Spree is a more consistent scorer for two reasons: 1) He takes the ball to the basket more (although not as much as when he was younger); and 2) He gets more points off his defense.

If Van Horn would make up his mind to stop settling for outside shots on a regular basis, my view of him could change, but I haven't seen him do that for more than a few games at a time.

The stats say just the opposite.
KVH SPREE
Jump Shots 66% 83%
CLOSE 30% 15%
Dunk 3% 1%
Tips 1% 1%

KVH goes inside a lot more then Spree. Spree is a jump shooter - when he was younger he went to the hoop more.

Are those this year's stats? If so, I stand corrected.

As I posted, I agree that he did go to the hoop more when he was younger.

Yes those are this years stats.

Posted by Rich:

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by Rich:

Posted by OldFan:

Posted by Rich:

Spree is a more consistent scorer for two reasons: 1) He takes the ball to the basket more (although not as much as when he was younger); and 2) He gets more points off his defense.

If Van Horn would make up his mind to stop settling for outside shots on a regular basis, my view of him could change, but I haven't seen him do that for more than a few games at a time.

The stats say just the opposite.
KVH SPREE
Jump Shots 66% 83%
CLOSE 30% 15%
Dunk 3% 1%
Tips 1% 1%

KVH goes inside a lot more then Spree. Spree is a jump shooter - when he was younger he went to the hoop more.

Are those this year's stats? If so, I stand corrected.

As I posted, I agree that he did go to the hoop more when he was younger.

Yes those are this years stats.

OK, perception doesn't always meet reality. Do you have a link to where you found these stats? I would like to look at a larger sample.

Rich - 82games.com - good site it has a lot of Stats I have not seen else where.