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Toney Douglas--not a PG
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BRIGGS
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1/12/2010  12:15 PM
he might've shown some things in SL but he is no PG. Maybe they can develop his game that way--but his natural instincts are 2 guard. That doesn't make him a bad prospect--he looks like he could develop into a nice 6th man type if given a chance over time--maybe he can be Nate's replacement.
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GodSaveTheKnicks
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1/12/2010  1:02 PM
bit early to make that judgement no Briggs?

I could see him being like Nate only way better on the defensive end and nowhere near as good of a shooter on the offensive end but more likely to score within the normal offensive flow wants to establish

Let's try to elevate the level of discourse in this byeetch. Please
SupremeCommander
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1/12/2010  1:06 PM
GodSaveTheKnicks wrote:bit early to make that judgement no Briggs?

I could see him being like Nate only way better on the defensive end and nowhere near as good of a shooter on the offensive end but more likely to score within the normal offensive flow wants to establish

What are you talking about? Of course Donnie Walsh should be fired for taking Gallo over Anthony Randolph and Brook Lopez

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Paladin55
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1/12/2010  1:14 PM
You could be right, but he's had no real playing time for most of this year, so you can't just write him off as a PG at this point.

If the dream does happen and James is in blue and orange next year, Douglas fits into the B.J. Armstrong, Derrick Fischer role quite well, though.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Bippity10
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1/12/2010  1:20 PM
I think they like him in that Leandro Barbosa hybrid role. I don't see him as a full-time PG either.
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Finestrg
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1/12/2010  1:52 PM    LAST EDITED: 1/12/2010  1:56 PM
Paladin55 wrote:You could be right, but he's had no real playing time for most of this year, so you can't just write him off as a PG at this point.

If the dream does happen and James is in blue and orange next year, Douglas fits into the B.J. Armstrong, Derrick Fischer role quite well, though.

I agree. Hard to speculate at this point. I mean the kid doesn't play at all now, save for some garbage mins. here & there. I see what Briggs is saying though - true, it doesn't look like he's a true point guard. But could he develop enough PG skills to the point where he becomes a serviceable floor general? I think so. We'll never know until Mike decides to throw him a bone and give him a prolonged look....Think Russell Westbrook for a sec. They were actually talking about this last night on either the pre-game or the actual broadcast --- Westbrook was never thought of as a pure PG when drafted but he's showing now that he can man the role. TD could have a similar projection to Westbrook. It all starts with playing time though, which is why I think that Mike's theory of sitting the two rookies in favor of his veterans isn't the most sound idea. I don't know why he thinks he can't have a happy medium - incorporating his rookies AND trying to win this year. I think his two rookies could only help the cause. Just listening to him last night on the latest Mike D'Antoni Show, he obviously doesn't see it that way. I guess in his mind, he just has too many vets to try to appease that are ahead of Hill and Douglas and that those vets offer up the best chance for him to win games...Development with these guys (Hill and Douglas) was basically scrapped for the rest of this year so I don't see us finding out anything anytime soon. Which to me is rediculous. I mean what if Hill and Douglas impressed, so much to the point where we're no longer interested in a guy like Chris Bosh in free agency or in Douglas' case, a starting caliber PG during the off-season? To me finding out more about these two (either here or in Reno) is more important in the grand scope of things than squeaking into the playoffs and getting blown out in the first round. Yeah that's a reasonable goal, but to me, finding out exactly what you have with these two is much more important so when the time comes to make important decisions shortly down the road here for this franchise (including Hill or TD in any trade, planning who to target in free agency, do you keep David Lee & Duhon, etc...) you now put yourself in position to make the best, most informed decision. Plus, as I said, I fail to see how playing Hill and Douglas right from the beginning would've had any kind of a negative impact on this team. If anything, I feel it would've been the opposite - they could've helped us. I don't feel we would've been in any worse shape than we are right now... As of right now, I don't feel this organization is in any kind of position to make an informed decision on either Hill or Douglas -- I have a pretty good idea what they are, but to be honest, no one knows what the hell these two guys could become right now. The proof is usually always in the pudding but there really hasn't been any pudding here to speak of...

Briggs mentioned his summer league play and thinking back on it, I'm still pretty impressed with what TD accomplished during that week in Vegas. His shot wasn't falling at all but what he did show, surprisingly, was good ability to drive and kick and find the open man. Then during pre-season and during the year at different times (at Milwaukee, at home against Utah) he showed some good offensive ability. Stuff he was known for. Together, I'd say we have some good things to look forward to...

MS
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1/12/2010  2:15 PM
Let's not forget that Toney is 23 years old. Playing in summer league with guys that are genergally 20-21 years old. He should have really stood out in a jv setting. He doesn't really have point guard skills. He is a nice spot up shooter that would fit nicely next to someone like Lebron
martin
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1/12/2010  2:26 PM
MS wrote:Let's not forget that Toney is 23 years old. Playing in summer league with guys that are genergally 20-21 years old. He should have really stood out in a jv setting. He doesn't really have point guard skills. He is a nice spot up shooter that would fit nicely next to someone like Lebron

nah. TD played SG for his entire last season and more, no? That's a big switch for one of the hardest positions to learn. Heck, even Devin Harris looked lost his first year in Dallas with Dirk on a team chop full of vets.

SL is a tough balance. Rookies who don't know what they are doing, players who need to get their own to show they can play in the Show (Morris Almond comes to mind), NBAD players, foreign players, short time together, new system to learn, etc.

Toney didn't look good to me last night but it's also not a good snapshot.

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buddapaw
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1/12/2010  2:29 PM
Finestrg wrote:
Paladin55 wrote:You could be right, but he's had no real playing time for most of this year, so you can't just write him off as a PG at this point.

If the dream does happen and James is in blue and orange next year, Douglas fits into the B.J. Armstrong, Derrick Fischer role quite well, though.

I agree. Hard to speculate at this point. I mean the kid doesn't play at all now, save for some garbage mins. here & there. I see what Briggs is saying though - true, it doesn't look like he's a true point guard. But could he develop enough PG skills to the point where he becomes a serviceable floor general? I think so. We'll never know until Mike decides to throw him a bone and give him a prolonged look....Think Russell Westbrook for a sec. They were actually talking about this last night on either the pre-game or the actual broadcast --- Westbrook was never thought of as a pure PG when drafted but he's showing now that he can man the role. TD could have a similar projection to Westbrook. It all starts with playing time though, which is why I think that Mike's theory of sitting the two rookies in favor of his veterans isn't the most sound idea. I don't know why he thinks he can't have a happy medium - incorporating his rookies AND trying to win this year. I think his two rookies could only help the cause. Just listening to him last night on the latest Mike D'Antoni Show, he obviously doesn't see it that way. I guess in his mind, he just has too many vets to try to appease that are ahead of Hill and Douglas and that those vets offer up the best chance for him to win games...Development with these guys (Hill and Douglas) was basically scrapped for the rest of this year so I don't see us finding out anything anytime soon. Which to me is rediculous. I mean what if Hill and Douglas impressed, so much to the point where we're no longer interested in a guy like Chris Bosh in free agency or in Douglas' case, a starting caliber PG during the off-season? To me finding out more about these two (either here or in Reno) is more important in the grand scope of things than squeaking into the playoffs and getting blown out in the first round. Yeah that's a reasonable goal, but to me, finding out exactly what you have with these two is much more important so when the time comes to make important decisions shortly down the road here for this franchise (including Hill or TD in any trade, planning who to target in free agency, do you keep David Lee & Duhon, etc...) you now put yourself in position to make the best, most informed decision. Plus, as I said, I fail to see how playing Hill and Douglas right from the beginning would've had any kind of a negative impact on this team. If anything, I feel it would've been the opposite - they could've helped us. I don't feel we would've been in any worse shape than we are right now... As of right now, I don't feel this organization is in any kind of position to make an informed decision on either Hill or Douglas -- I have a pretty good idea what they are, but to be honest, no one knows what the hell these two guys could become right now. The proof is usually always in the pudding but there really hasn't been any pudding here to speak of...

Briggs mentioned his summer league play and thinking back on it, I'm still pretty impressed with what TD accomplished during that week in Vegas. His shot wasn't falling at all but what he did show, surprisingly, was good ability to drive and kick and find the open man. Then during pre-season and during the year at different times (at Milwaukee, at home against Utah) he showed some good offensive ability. Stuff he was known for. Together, I'd say we have some good things to look forward to...

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LivingLegend
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1/12/2010  3:27 PM
BRIGGS wrote:he might've shown some things in SL but he is no PG. Maybe they can develop his game that way--but his natural instincts are 2 guard. That doesn't make him a bad prospect--he looks like he could develop into a nice 6th man type if given a chance over time--maybe he can be Nate's replacement.

I agree that he's not a natural point guard.

He can play it in short spurts for us but he'll never be an instinctive -- drive and create type point.

He lacks pure vision, ball handling and passing skills.

He's a tough kid who will defend his heart out and score the ball but I agree he's not a point.

TheGame
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1/13/2010  10:01 AM
BRIGGS wrote:he might've shown some things in SL but he is no PG. Maybe they can develop his game that way--but his natural instincts are 2 guard. That doesn't make him a bad prospect--he looks like he could develop into a nice 6th man type if given a chance over time--maybe he can be Nate's replacement.

I agree his instincts are 2 guard, but he is careful with the ball, can penetrate, and has a high BB-ball IQ. Give him 2 years running the P&R in this system, and I think he will figure it out.

Trust the Process
fishmike
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1/13/2010  10:06 AM
depends on who is on the roster and what the need is. I dont think Duhon does much more than what Douglas could learn to do. The offense goes through Lee right now. Duhon does a good job of hitting some jumpers and taking care of the ball. He's not running a complex offense right now. If you add a guy like Lebron or even Joe Johnson (how about both) then Douglas should be fine at the PG. He can play the 2 man game quite well I think
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
1/13/2010  10:48 AM
He's careful with the ball and can penetrate, plus his three-point shot is straight ice cream. But you can't give him the keys, can't do it. It's all about what position you're born to play. TD was born to play 2 guard and score a bunch of points and provide lock down defense. Whenever you try to change a player or a person, you run into friction; resistance. You want to guide the player down the smoothest path possible, straight to his Peak Potential (PP). Just let TD do his thing and reach his PP.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
Toney Douglas--not a PG

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