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In defense of the Knicks last two drafts
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OldFan
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12/2/2009  3:20 AM
Here is a historical picture of the quality of players taken at positions 6 and 8, the Knicks last two draft positions. I would say looking at this it's rare to get an impact player drafting where the knicks drafted and often the best player available (with hindsight) is not selected. I would say that Hill and Gallo are unproven but have a good chance to be better then many of the players drafted at there respective draft positions.

Picks at 6:

Player Year Rd.
Antoine Walker 1996
Ron Mercer 1997
Robert Traylog 1998
Wally Szczerbiak 1999
DerMarr Johnson 2000
Shane Battier 2001
Dajuan Wagner 2002
Chris Kaman 2003
Josh Childress 2004
Martell Webster 2005
Brandon Roy 2006
Yi Jianlian 2007
Gallo 2008
Jonny Flynn 2009

Picks at 8:

Player Year
Kerry Kittles 1996
Adonal Foyle 1997
Larry Hughes 1998
Andre Miller 1999
Jamal Crawford 2000
DeSagana Diop 2001
Chris Wilcox 2002
T.J. Ford 2003
Rafael Araujo 2004
Channing Frye 2005
Rudy Gay 2006
Brandan Wright 2007
Joe Alexandar 2008
Jordan Hill 2009
AUTOADVERT
orangeblobman
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Nauru
12/2/2009  3:23 AM
gallo best player out of the lot.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
franco12
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12/2/2009  6:07 AM
the funny thing about all the busts at 8 is their bigs probably taken due to their size.

paging jordan hill?
Ira
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12/2/2009  6:09 AM
Nice thread OldFan. Sometimes it's good to put things in perspective. Now imagine if we did that for the 29th pick. How good would Douglas look in that group.
Cosmic
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12/2/2009  6:18 AM
If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

Gallo is great. Douglas is great. Hill is a disappointment.

Not bad overall. Not bad.

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Bippity10
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12/2/2009  6:47 AM    LAST EDITED: 12/2/2009  6:48 AM
Cosmic wrote:If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

This is why building in the draft or free/agency or trades are so hard to do. It's not an exact science. You will hit and you will miss. This is also why when you take over a bad team you don't build on top of that bad team with the MLE. You instead gut the team, get under the cap to take advantage of free agency. You take on reasonable contracts so you can trade your players. And you use the draft picks you have because some picks may fail and some may blossom. You dont' rebuild through the draft. You don't rebuild via free agency or trade. You rebuild by using all three. It appears that Walsh is taking steps to try to take advantage of all three.

By the way Cosmic, Hill has already shown the ability to be a contributor. His work ethic will determine what type of player he can be long-term. If he works hard he can be an impact player. When he has played he has not only put up numbers he has been clearly noticeable. Let's not give up on him yet, many good players start off this way. The talent and athletic ability is there. It will come down to his work ethic and ability to learn the game

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JCHAN
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12/2/2009  7:26 AM
orangeblobman wrote:gallo best player out of the lot.

Gallo > Roy??
Ira
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12/2/2009  7:59 AM
JCHAN wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:gallo best player out of the lot.

Gallo > Roy??

At this point, no. But Gallo does have a better outside shot and he has some big man skills. So it is possible that, down the road, he will be in Brandon Roy's league.
BasketballJones
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12/2/2009  11:09 AM
Bippity10 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

This is why building in the draft or free/agency or trades are so hard to do. It's not an exact science. You will hit and you will miss. This is also why when you take over a bad team you don't build on top of that bad team with the MLE. You instead gut the team, get under the cap to take advantage of free agency. You take on reasonable contracts so you can trade your players. And you use the draft picks you have because some picks may fail and some may blossom. You dont' rebuild through the draft. You don't rebuild via free agency or trade. You rebuild by using all three. It appears that Walsh is taking steps to try to take advantage of all three.

By the way Cosmic, Hill has already shown the ability to be a contributor. His work ethic will determine what type of player he can be long-term. If he works hard he can be an impact player. When he has played he has not only put up numbers he has been clearly noticeable. Let's not give up on him yet, many good players start off this way. The talent and athletic ability is there. It will come down to his work ethic and ability to learn the game

But is he as good as Mike Sweetney?

https:// It's not so hard.
MS
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12/2/2009  11:30 AM
Gallo if he stays healthy is going to be a special player.

However the problem with Walsh is that he needed a point guard. It was our biggest position of need and Jennings and Lawson were perfect fits for the offense.

Right now the only thing that is holding the knicks back is Chris Duhon. Next season we have to spend in order to bring in a pg. Walsh seems a little clueless when it comes to this position. Handing 10 million to a player like Duhon was a huge mistake. Jamal Tinsley is already looking fantastic in Memphis and Jason Williams could have brought more to the table.

Walsh is questionable right now.
kam77
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12/2/2009  11:48 AM
You have to compare against who was chosen later in the draft, not who was chosen in other drafts at the exact same spot.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
fishmike
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12/2/2009  11:57 AM
MS wrote:Gallo if he stays healthy is going to be a special player.

However the problem with Walsh is that he needed a point guard. It was our biggest position of need and Jennings and Lawson were perfect fits for the offense.

Right now the only thing that is holding the knicks back is Chris Duhon. Next season we have to spend in order to bring in a pg. Walsh seems a little clueless when it comes to this position. Handing 10 million to a player like Duhon was a huge mistake. Jamal Tinsley is already looking fantastic in Memphis and Jason Williams could have brought more to the table.

Walsh is questionable right now.

I think he passed on Tinsley for two reasons. One was the attitude issues. The other was it meant they would be forced to move Duhon or do something with the Nate/Duhon/Douglas glut they already have. Add to it that Hughes is playing some backup PG now as well.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Bippity10
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12/2/2009  12:02 PM
BasketballJones wrote:
Bippity10 wrote:
Cosmic wrote:If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

This is why building in the draft or free/agency or trades are so hard to do. It's not an exact science. You will hit and you will miss. This is also why when you take over a bad team you don't build on top of that bad team with the MLE. You instead gut the team, get under the cap to take advantage of free agency. You take on reasonable contracts so you can trade your players. And you use the draft picks you have because some picks may fail and some may blossom. You dont' rebuild through the draft. You don't rebuild via free agency or trade. You rebuild by using all three. It appears that Walsh is taking steps to try to take advantage of all three.

By the way Cosmic, Hill has already shown the ability to be a contributor. His work ethic will determine what type of player he can be long-term. If he works hard he can be an impact player. When he has played he has not only put up numbers he has been clearly noticeable. Let's not give up on him yet, many good players start off this way. The talent and athletic ability is there. It will come down to his work ethic and ability to learn the game

But is he as good as Mike Sweetney?

Are we talking style of play or talent?

I just hope that people will like me
tkf
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12/2/2009  12:04 PM
Cosmic wrote:If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

Gallo is great. Douglas is great. Hill is a disappointment.

Not bad overall. Not bad.

suns announcers who got to see hill a lot in arizona are pretty high on the kid.. not sure why you are so quick to give up on him...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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12/2/2009  12:05 PM
JCHAN wrote:
orangeblobman wrote:gallo best player out of the lot.

Gallo > Roy??

i was saying the same thing.. LOL.. I am a huge gallo fan, but lets wait a minute here.. can gallo be on roys level one day? yes, but right now, roy is the best out of that draft IMO.. right now, that is..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bippity10
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12/2/2009  12:11 PM
tkf wrote:
Cosmic wrote:If Gallo's back problems are limited then it will be a very good pick on our part.
Jordan Hill on the other hand isn't anything special and it would seem that Brandon Jennings, a player who fit a need, might very well be very special.

So, well...you can't win them all.

Gallo is great. Douglas is great. Hill is a disappointment.

Not bad overall. Not bad.

suns announcers who got to see hill a lot in arizona are pretty high on the kid.. not sure why you are so quick to give up on him...

Heinsohn was really high on Gallo and Hill as well. He raved about Gallo in the beginning of our game and I don't remember the exact quote, but he did say that he felt Hill had a ton of potential. Often times outsiders look at our guys far different then we do.

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martin
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12/2/2009  12:58 PM
MS wrote:Gallo if he stays healthy is going to be a special player.

However the problem with Walsh is that he needed a point guard. It was our biggest position of need and Jennings and Lawson were perfect fits for the offense.

I do think PG is a great need for the Knicks, but so is defense: in particular, at C and on the wing.

Can Toney Douglas be a PG? Can he slow down opposing PGs? Can Hill clog the middle?

If LeBron is in the bag - BIG IF - then a traditional break down PG is not 100% necessary.

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nixluva
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12/2/2009  1:12 PM
RUBIO!!! We already have targetted our future PG!
OldFan
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12/2/2009  4:46 PM
kam77 wrote:You have to compare against who was chosen later in the draft, not who was chosen in other drafts at the exact same spot.

The point is the draft is not an exact science and almost every year you can find players who are better then the players drafted ahead of them when you're talking picks 5-10. It happens to every team not just the Knicks. Look thru the rest of the players taken in those drafts and you'll see plenty of the same. I'm not saying the Knicks picked the best players they could have - I'm saying they did as well or better then most other teams do drafting in those positions.
Nalod
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12/2/2009  7:00 PM    LAST EDITED: 12/2/2009  7:01 PM
kam77 wrote:You have to compare against who was chosen later in the draft, not who was chosen in other drafts at the exact same spot.

its always easy to look at the players the fell and were passed over. If you look at that spot and that spot only its a narrower window. You gotta a pick and you gotta make a selection. In my opinion it shows just how hard it is.

Gallo in year 2 and Hill just a few games in is still years aways from able to render an opinion. Jennings was a mistake but Hill was an upside pick and these kids need a few years. If most had jennings pegged right, he would have been the 4th pick. Milwaukee screws up for years and finally got some luck. Dirk for Tractor Traylor straight up is still tought to swallow!

and in the long run, Dice was a better player than Nene even after his injury!
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