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Douglas - PG, SG or Combo Guard?
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earthmansurfer
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11/12/2009  9:39 AM
I haven't been able to watch Tony's last two "break-out" games. I wonder if you guys see pg skills in the guy or is he a replacement for Nate. Which is actually ok. Tony is playing great D on opposing PG's (I hear). Did Douglas handle the ball even though Duhon started with him in the last game?

EMS

The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
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NYKBocker
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11/12/2009  9:44 AM
From watching these last few games, and the 2 SL games, he has the ability to become a true PG. He has the physical abilities and has the bulldog mentality that is needed for the position. His passing will come. He displayed in the SL games that he can distribute.

The more I watch him, the more he reminds me of Greg Anthony and a little of Mookie Blaylock but with more offensive game than both of them. This is not bad in my opinion and it will be fun watching him grow.
misterearl
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11/12/2009  9:45 AM
In the immortal words of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. "I don't look for small forwards, point guards or centers... I look for basketball players"

Toney Douglas is a basketball player, playa.

once a knick always a knick
cooch2584
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11/12/2009  9:45 AM
You know i love this kid,hes got guts.I would be satisfied with him being a combo guard.He should start with hughes with nate backing up
NYKBocker
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11/12/2009  9:51 AM
misterearl wrote:In the immortal words of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. "I don't look for small forwards, point guards or centers... I look for basketball players"

Toney Douglas is a basketball player, playa.

Absolutely. Add Gallo into the category of basketball player. Right now, we have 2 guys that understand how to play basketball.
fishmike
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11/12/2009  9:57 AM
I kind of hate this. EMS... no offense to you.

How about just "good basketball player" ???

He's a PG because of his size.

Right now he doesnt have the skills to run a complex offense. He seems to have pretty average court vision, but its still a small sample of games to tell.

What is so promising about the last few games is he is doing what he did at college as a pro. Douglas was a great college basketball player. The reason he was available so late in the first round was because teams obviously had doubts his game would translate at the NBA, and he would be a 6'2 shooting guard. The D league is packed with them.

He is showing he can really score. Teams will make adjustments, so whether or not he can continue to score at such a good rate (he's shooting over 50%) remains to be seen.

However defense is defense and he is really pissing people off that he guards. He swats balls, forces bad shots, deflects passes and hounds whoever he guards. Its a thing of beauty.

MDA does understand the need for defense. There is a reason he signed Marcus Banks w/ the Suns. I would say Douglas has shown enough offensively to earn himself some rookie patience from this staff and he's here in the rotation to stay. Hard to see him not getting 30 minutes a night, with or without Nate.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
NYKBocker
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11/12/2009  10:08 AM
fishmike wrote:I kind of hate this. EMS... no offense to you.

How about just "good basketball player" ???

He's a PG because of his size.

Right now he doesnt have the skills to run a complex offense. He seems to have pretty average court vision, but its still a small sample of games to tell.

What is so promising about the last few games is he is doing what he did at college as a pro. Douglas was a great college basketball player. The reason he was available so late in the first round was because teams obviously had doubts his game would translate at the NBA, and he would be a 6'2 shooting guard. The D league is packed with them.

He is showing he can really score. Teams will make adjustments, so whether or not he can continue to score at such a good rate (he's shooting over 50%) remains to be seen.

However defense is defense and he is really pissing people off that he guards. He swats balls, forces bad shots, deflects passes and hounds whoever he guards. Its a thing of beauty.

MDA does understand the need for defense. There is a reason he signed Marcus Banks w/ the Suns. I would say Douglas has shown enough offensively to earn himself some rookie patience from this staff and he's here in the rotation to stay. Hard to see him not getting 30 minutes a night, with or without Nate.

Very easy to see when the alternative is Dudu.
fishmike
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11/12/2009  10:10 AM
well thats the one good thing about the terrible start. Hopefully it shakes up the rotation and we see something from these younger guys.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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11/12/2009  10:17 AM
toney is a combo guard. not really a playmaker.

brandon jennings is a point guard.

¿ △ ?
Ira
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11/12/2009  10:36 AM
Right now, I'd say he's a combo guard. He doesn't seem to have the court vision that a good pg has.
TheGame
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11/12/2009  10:37 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  10:37 AM
He is a combo guard, but so is Gilbert Arenas. Sam Cassell has a pretty solid career as a PG after being an undersized SG at Florida State University. All Douglas needs to do is develop an understanding of the offense and the pick and roll play. If Duhon can do it, I see no reason Douglas cannot do it. He certainly is not going to be the next Steve Nash or Jason Kidd, but he could be Mookie Blaylock or Sam Cassell, which is alot better than we have had these past 4-5 years.
Trust the Process
SupremeCommander
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11/12/2009  10:46 AM
NYKBocker wrote:
misterearl wrote:In the immortal words of Arnold "Red" Auerbach. "I don't look for small forwards, point guards or centers... I look for basketball players"

Toney Douglas is a basketball player, playa.

Absolutely. Add Gallo into the category of basketball player. Right now, we have 2 guys that understand how to play basketball.

From what I've seen on the highlights and read thus far this year, I agree. Let's see if Hill and Chandler can add their names to the list. And then let's flip Lee/Nate/Harrington to contenders for young guys that understand how to play.

DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Olbrannon
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11/12/2009  10:47 AM
Odd thing is I remember a local beat writer saying Douglas was a "master of the pick and roll."

I believe that he has not been given the time at the spot due to D'An-tuna not believing and not really wanting the kid. I don't believe he has worked much with D Lee or any of the others with the pick and roll. Only Hill in early camp. He has had to prove to Coach that he can be a factor. It's only recently that I have even noticed him on the floor with Gallo.

I would love to see him and Nate start share the point and just harass opposing guards into so much frustration they loose it and the game. Could happen. If Nate doesn't loose his cool.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
jimimou
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11/12/2009  10:55 AM
i was lucky to be close enough to the court last night to see the facial expressions of the knicks on the floor. td was the ONLY knick i saw that played hard for the entire time he was in the game. the other guys had the look of 'im just passing my time here', but TD was engaged, hungry and went for it ON EACH AND EVERY PLAY IN THE GAME. he got a bit of the rookie treatment by the refs for those two quick fouls in the first - bibby's overacting on the touch fouls helped him get whistles, but i believe TD will not get those calls against him in time. he's a rook and being treated like one by the refs still.

all good imho - the kid can ball, doesnt matter if he is a 1 or a 2, but he was the only one last night that looked like he WANTED to be there.
Olbrannon
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11/12/2009  11:05 AM
This guy gets it...he is living his dream. Martin said the other night he was playing with joy. that is correct...he is in the Mecca playing ball for the Knicks.

Gets some guys that wanna ball instead of collect a fat check.

He's been told since he was a freshman in college he can't play the point. He does whatever coach asks. And works harder at it than anyone else. He is leading the only way a rook can...by example.

Bill Simmons on Tyreke Evans "The prototypical 0-guard: Someone who handles the ball all the time, looks for his own shot, gets to the rim at will and operates best if his teammates spread the floor to watch him."
JrZyHuStLa
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11/12/2009  11:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/12/2009  11:08 AM
We have too many guys that have unidentified positions.

Nate, PG or SG ?
Douglas, PG or SG ?
Gallo, PF SF SG ?
Lee, C or PF ?

Can't we just freaking have a few players that are true to their positions ? WTF ?
jimimou
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11/12/2009  11:12 AM
JrZyHuStLa wrote:We have too many guys that have unidentified positions.

Nate, PG or SG ?
Douglas, PG or SG ?
Gallo, PF SF SG ?
Lee, C or PF ?

Can't we just freaking have a few players that are true to their positions ? WTF ?

you have curry
JohnWallace44
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11/12/2009  11:16 AM
Hate to break it to you guys, but in this system, there's a big difference between a shooting guard and a point guard. Douglas is a nice "basketball player" and he will be part of the solution if we get the parts we're supposed to in the Summer.

We shouldn't put it on him to be honest. He's just not a PG at this point and MikeD said as much in the post game.

The PG failures are on Donnie. He gambled that Duhon would be able to get back what he had for the first third of last year and he gambled wrong. Team's just going to be a complete mess until something resembling a real point walks in the door.

We're going to have to hope that Nate can pretend to be a point guard next week. He's the only hope on the horizon for this team in my eyes. I don't know how else we are going to get into the offense.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
misterearl
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11/12/2009  11:35 AM
JrZyHuStLa - what position did Anthony Mason play?

Spree?

the point being that hardline positions are not an absolute requirement to be successful in the NBA. What the Knicks need is a set of players who skill sets are fill every task. And they need to get their collective ego in check.

Right now, there is no leadership. No sense of rhythm or balance.

There are simply too many players who think they are more skilled than their production illustrates. Until the Knicks understand their roles and limitations it is all just chaos and confusion.

once a knick always a knick
JohnWallace44
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11/12/2009  11:42 AM
Earl, that is not true in this system. The PG is a very hardline position. The rest of the positions are very ambiguous.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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