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What will be Coach Dantoni Legacy
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playa2
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11/3/2009  5:07 PM
Will he ever lose the label as a poor defensive coach during his tenure as the knicks head coach ?

Will he win big in the post season one day , instead of just the regular season.

D’Antoni’s Suns always breezed through the regular season while he was in charge with Nash Amare and Marion.

In the four full seasons he was coach, his team never won less than 54 games during the regular season and had a winning percentage of .707.

Come playoff time though, it was a different story and when Phoenix was forced to play defense, D’Antoni either refused to, or simply didn’t know how. His win percentage dipped to .510, showing that it’s not how many games you win, rather when you win them that counts.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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Marv
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11/3/2009  5:14 PM
hey dude. how's tricks?
eViL
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11/3/2009  5:18 PM
so gkf wasn't banned. he was traded... for playa.

d'antoni's legacy is still being written. success in NY is a must for upper echelon coach status. time will tell.

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TMS
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11/3/2009  5:18 PM
so far his legacy is he's a great coach trying to teach a bad team how to break out of their bad habits & become respectable.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
EnySpree
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11/3/2009  5:22 PM
Hey!!! Welcome back Playa!!! now stop ****in with Martin so you can stick around!!!
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nyk4ever
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11/3/2009  5:23 PM
Playa.. good to see you around. Lay off the conspiracies for atleast 6 months this time?
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EnySpree
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11/3/2009  5:24 PM
His Legacy will be professionalism. Knicks are starting to become more professional. That was the plan...Team is taking baby steps, but they are improving. 2010 is coming...and so is the defense believe it or not.
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nixluva
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11/3/2009  5:53 PM
I think the idea that a lack of D was his biggest issue isn't true. Sometimes you just face a team that is better. The Spurs were the main foe that got them bounced, save for that MVP year for Dirk and the Mavs.

Let's get specific tho - 2005 Playoffs - In the Western Conference Finals, the Suns played the San Antonio Spurs who won the series 4–1, ending Phoenix's outstanding season, partly due to Joe Johnson missing the first two games of the series. Joe Johnson went on to start the remaining games where he averaged 40 minutes per game and 18.3 PPG. The Suns lost the first 2 at home, as well as the following game in San Antonio to fall behind 3–0 in the series, escaping with a win in Game 4 at San Antonio 111–106. The team then lost Game 5 at home 101–95 to be eliminated from the playoffs. Stoudemire averaged a staggering 37.0 ppg, the highest ever by a player in their first Conference Finals

2006 Amare had Microfracture Surgery and missed most of the Season, Joe Johnson was traded and they added Bell, Kurt Thomas & Diaw. No Amare and Bell was out for two games of the series due to injury. They lost in 6 games to the Mavs.

2007 Playoffs they again lost to the Spurs and lost in 6 games. Now remember the Horry on Nash flagrant and subsequent suspension of Amare and Diaw? Of Course the Suns lost the next game and also Game 6. I think if you really look at that run of playoffs you can see some areas where if things had gone a bit differently MDA could've won a title or at least gotten to the FInals. I don't think defense is the main issue.

Besides winning % should go down if you're playing the best teams in the playoffs. Defense and offense are tested to the highest degree in the playoffs too. The teams they lost to had a top player better than anyone PHX had. Duncan and Dirk.
Nash is great, but you can't compare him to those guys. I believe MDA actually improved his teams chances and got more out of the talent he had than many lesser coaches would. If we give him great talent I believe he can win a title like any other great coach.

PresIke
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11/3/2009  6:16 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2009  6:20 PM
might be nice if folks would check the well documented articles that use hard statistical evidence to show that d'antoni's teams were not bad defensively. also, knickerblogger and others pointed to the fairly large amount of research that shows that simply being a top defensive team does not mean winning titles. in fact, being a better offensive team is usually better, and that the league is just not the same anymore.

the infatuation with the style of play that the knicks used in the 1990's is just not what the nba is at all interested in, no matter how much some fans may enjoy hard nosed kill the guy in the lane defense.

the knicks in the 1970's played a much more similar game to the way d'antoni runs his offense now, from what i understand...hit the open man, and ball movement.

nix, i as much as it pains me to say it, and as much as i often enjoy playa's (and others who rail on d'antoni's defensive coaching or that his style can't win titles...blah blah) posts, no matter how much one tries to use evidence that doesn't fit one's point of view some are just not going to change their minds.

playa, didn't you also call gallo a bust before he even played a game?

please correct me if i'm wrong, but that's what i recall.

okay, that could be considered a cheap shot to discredit you, and not necessarily relevant to this topic, but i feel like it is because it relates to some kind of anti-anything remotely european/d'antoni style association that some fans here use often.

notice how top defensive teams often have their top players, often superstars or star caliber players, committed to defense.

where are those players on this team, and where have they been since spree and camby were here?

basically...

we don't have them, so surprise, surprise....we're not the greatest defensive team.

the suns didn't have the greatest defenders other than bell and marion was decent, so they were basically average as a team, i believe. their offense was just so good, and not really even a run and gun a la old school nuggets/nelson warriors style either, who weren't really efficient. those suns teams were HIGHLY efficient. it wasn't like they struggled to score in half-court either with all of their weapons. and as nix points out, the spurs were a freaking well oiled machine with sick defense and potent offensive talent. i mean, hello, they're still a top team because of those same reasons.

there are SO few teams that do and can win titles that it should NEVER be a given that any team will win against all of the very tough competition year in and year out.


Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BigSm00th
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11/3/2009  7:20 PM
if walsh had drafted better this team may be improving faster. i think its safe to say this squad has the least talent out of ANYBODY in the league. the fact that we had the least talent after last season and used TWO first round picks and BOTH are getting DNP-CDs is pretty comical. the brandon jennings miss will be agonizing, that kid can play and he would've been a great guard in this offense (good shooter, great passer/vision, nice ballhandling skills). what is walsh doing its like he's asleep at the wheel.

d'antoni, players want to play for him, i imagine if he doesn't have success here he will eventually have success somewhere. the nba is moving in that direction (faster pace, more 3s, more scoring) and he's a large reason why.

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sebstar
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11/3/2009  7:30 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/3/2009  7:31 PM
Whats good fam? Yo, good to see you back

I was concerned that you died, 'cause you're really old.

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sebstar
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11/3/2009  7:32 PM
playa2 wrote:Will he ever lose the label as a poor defensive coach during his tenure as the knicks head coach ?

Will he win big in the post season one day , instead of just the regular season.

D’Antoni’s Suns always breezed through the regular season while he was in charge with Nash Amare and Marion.

In the four full seasons he was coach, his team never won less than 54 games during the regular season and had a winning percentage of .707.

Come playoff time though, it was a different story and when Phoenix was forced to play defense, D’Antoni either refused to, or simply didn’t know how. His win percentage dipped to .510, showing that it’s not how many games you win, rather when you win them that counts.

He gets Lebron and Bosh his legacy is going to look real good when he brings a chip back to NY. He'll own this damn city.

My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Silverfuel
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11/3/2009  7:42 PM
no way, playa's back!

Build D'Antoni a team first. He can teach defense and IMO, he can win big in the playoffs.

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Nalod
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11/3/2009  9:55 PM
Playa2 is back!!!! What about Isles????

Playa, the "rest" did you good?

playa2
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11/4/2009  10:36 AM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2009  11:18 AM
Thanks to all of you guys, special thanks to the mods.

Even Pete Rose was forgiven

Now back to the topic at hand.

The Phoenix Suns’ poor defensive habits are a direct result of the former coaches’ methods.

Mike D’Antoni chosed to ignore the bad habits and focuses only on the Sun’s strengths (scoring). So now in NY he will always praise the knicks offensive prowess and rewarded his offensive weapons with playing time and career-altering numbers. When he coached at Phoenix defense was never a focus or a concern. Due to his lack of action in that area the Suns grew more lax on defense.

With the knicks how can players play at this pace for 82 games and reach the playoffs and have enough left in the tank to win playoff games and the NBA finals.

IMHO you would haver to have robots that don't get tired or break down for the knicks to make it to the promise land with Dantoni at the helm. Mike this isn't europe or the ABA, The team who will be crowned NBA champion will always make multiple stops at the end of games in the 4th qtr COME PLAYOFF TIME , NOT JUST OUTSCORE THEM.

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
jazz74
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11/4/2009  10:41 AM
hopefully a championship caliber coach with the knicks. lol. well, maybe one day but he will probably be known as one of the best offensive minded coach in history up there with doug moe. defensively he is poor and teaching is average. however, he is good at motivating and having a personal relationship with his players so that is a plus. he is a slightly above average coach.
Nalod
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11/4/2009  10:44 AM
Playoffs? Playoffs?

Im not worried about running out of gas in a playoff run.

Suns-Spurs was a joke and Suns got screwed royally! It happens, and thus his legacy is not set.

Steve Nash is a two time MVP and wonderful player but his defense is and has always been suspect. For that reason if you held that against him and sat him what would you accomplish?

Knicks don't have a core team even close. Pat Riley Showtime Lakers were nothing like his knick team. You coach with what you got. Tony Douglas can be a lock down defender.

This team does not have the identitiy of the celtics who pride themselves on Defense and win with it, but make no mistake that Rondo-Pierce-Ray-and KG is not a potent offense first and foremost.

And in the End the Suns were stupid to let mike go evident by the return to the run and gun. Roster changes and age/injury are too numerous to compare now. They play better defense now and this is without Shawm Marion on the team! Knicks have many problems.

fishmike
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11/4/2009  10:52 AM
good to have you back.

MDA's Suns teams were not bad defensive teams. Diaw was a very good defender before he got fat, and Raja Bell is a top 5 defender in the NBA. Marion was also an excellent defender and Amare was as well (when they needed stops). Style of play will skew the stats but those teams could get stops. These Knick teams cant get stops.

His legacy will be in line with how good the players turn out to be. Forget Lebron for a minute, but lets say these things happen:

DW somehow packages JJ + Chandler for an expiring contract.
Knicks are able to void Curry's PO or buy him out this year freeing that obligation
Toney Douglas becomes a good defensive PG and can hit some big shots (think Chris Childs)
Knicks sign Rudy Gay and Chris Bosh
Knicks resgin Lee 5 years $50mm
Knicks resign Nate 4 years $28mm
Gallo is that kind of do-all player and fits well (think Toni Kukoc with a better offensive game)

You rotation for the next 4 years is
Douglas
Gay
Gallo
Bosh
Lee
with Nate the first guy off the bench

Under MDA that team will go deep every year and MDA will be part of a how this Knick franchise returns to respectability

However if Douglas is the next Earl Watson, Gallo the next Kyle Korver and we over pay to get Joe Johnson here at cost of David Lee not resiging and have a few more 35 win seasons than MDA is just another failed coach.

His legacy will be determined by who he gets to coach

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
nixluva
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11/4/2009  5:54 PM
Like any coach his legacy is partly in the hands of his GM. He will only be able to go as far as his roster can take him. They never got Riley a co pilot for Ewing. Right now Riley is trying to put a team around Wade, so he can see how hard it is now to actually build a champion. Walsh is gonna have to balance what MDA wants and needs to win, with what makes sense for the franchise to actually do. He can perform miracles. If no top FA wants to sign here then he has to move on to a different phase, that of going back to the draft. It's actually probably already on his list, to try and make a trade for a 2010 pick, but if he has to I suspect he'll try to use our cap space and expiring contracts to see if he can get something good out of the draft.

I don't think we'll end up not getting someone in the 2010 FA class. There's just too much money out there and someone is gonna bite. MDA getting this team to the playoffs this year would be huge IMO. We need to see Gallo and Chan have a successful season and things look good so far. Lee is doing his usual thing, so I think we are headed in the right direction.

franco12
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11/4/2009  10:57 PM
D'Antoni's winning percentage dropped in the play offs because the Suns are in the West and all the best teams are there - 1-8 being arguably equal to or better than the top three in the east. And I'm pretty sure just about every coach's winning percentage drops in the play offs

Look at Phil Jackson - regular season win % is .705, and in the play offs, .696, and he's won 10 rings.

You want defense - lets go with one of the best coaches- Jerry Sloan.

Regular season win % .603

Play offs .497%

See that? Sloan is a frigging loser! His style isn't good for play off basketball.

What will be Coach Dantoni Legacy

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