[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

How about the Spree trade now?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
simrud
Posts: 23392
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/13/2003
Member: #474
USA
12/15/2003  1:08 AM
Van Horn is being fazed out of the rotation by Anderson of all people. The last 2 games, the ones we actually won, he has played 0, yes 0.00 minutes in the 4th. His fieldgoal percentage is way down, to yes, worse than the "awful shooting" Spree. Spree has been averagin 25 pts a game in the recent Wolves run. Van Horn gets blocked at least twice every game, misses at least one layup a game, and misses all the 3's he takes, makina bout 1 in 5 GAMES. Bust best of all he is young, and we'll have the pleasure to watch him for a long time now. His d is not even brougt up now cause nobody expecet him to play any, but with him and H20 we can only play zone with Matambu and whem Matambu goes to the bench (either when Don the idiot Chaney subs him out for no reason or because of fall trouble) we fall apart. Yeah what a great trade that was.
A glimmer of hope maybe?!?
AUTOADVERT
Nedyal1
Posts: 20243
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 8/22/2003
Member: #463
12/15/2003  9:09 AM
We are likely better with anderson playing than even Spree! Sometimes you add by subtracting a player.

Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work.

Spree is playing SG with a nice Point, a superstar, and nice role players. He should do well. Enjoy his work on a good team.

Spree could not perform well on this team for many reasons, some are managements fault, and others are HE IS A SHOOTING GUARD.

Personally I would rather see Van Horn play much better and contribute to wins. Some really would rather see him fail. To each his own.

Get it now?
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
martin
Posts: 76261
Alba Posts: 108
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #2
USA
12/15/2003  9:17 AM
Posted by Nedyal1:

We are likely better with anderson playing than even Spree! Sometimes you add by subtracting a player.

Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work.

Spree is playing SG with a nice Point, a superstar, and nice role players. He should do well. Enjoy his work on a good team.

Spree could not perform well on this team for many reasons, some are managements fault, and others are HE IS A SHOOTING GUARD.

Personally I would rather see Van Horn play much better and contribute to wins. Some really would rather see him fail. To each his own.

Get it now?

thank you for posting that. Knick fans, get over Spree.
Official sponsor of the PURE KNICKS LOVE Program
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
12/15/2003  10:06 AM
Posted by Nedyal1:

We are likely better with anderson playing than even Spree! Sometimes you add by subtracting a player.

Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work.

Spree is playing SG with a nice Point, a superstar, and nice role players. He should do well. Enjoy his work on a good team.

Spree could not perform well on this team for many reasons, some are managements fault, and others are HE IS A SHOOTING GUARD.

Personally I would rather see Van Horn play much better and contribute to wins. Some really would rather see him fail. To each his own.

Get it now?

excellent post, and the sad thing is that most people look at the stat sheet and still haven't watched spree play all season, I have seen quite a few Wolves games this year, and I tell you spree has had some ugly game, I mean KVH has not been that bad at times and the key is spree was not going to succeed, getting older and playing out of position on this team, he should do well in MINN, and I wish him well..

Now time to move on, and lets hope KVH suceeds, that bodes well for the knicks!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
bernard
Posts: 20730
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/17/2003
Member: #475
12/15/2003  10:20 AM
I've always been a defender of the spree/kvh trade for exactly the reasons you cite, nedyal. Presumption all along was that kvh was the best they could get for spree. we all know they were trying to move spree for better part of a year.

But must admit I'm concerned by how weak kvh has looked in last several games. So many turnovers. So tentative. He is boarding, but that's about the only positive he brings.

Worst case, the Spree trade will turn into a mini Ewing deal in retrospect. Get rid of an aging player who no longer fit on the team, yes, but get stuck with longer term problems.

Think KVH's game is best suited to backing up 2 and 3 with 25 to 30 minutes a game, mainly against opponents' 2nd stringers, but we'd need a legit starting 3 for this to make sense (I like Kurt Thomas + any of our overpaid scrubs-for-Antwawn trade). And KVH would need to find enough confidence that the "demotion" wouldn't make him even more soft and tentative.
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/15/2003  10:59 AM
I agree. Spree might be a better player but was not at all suited for our team. He is a shooting guard and with Shandon Anderson doing well (even though I hate him) we have a better lineup. The sad part is KVH not performing to his potential but this deal will likely give dividends in the long run.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
NYKBocker
Posts: 38412
Alba Posts: 474
Joined: 1/14/2003
Member: #377
USA
12/15/2003  12:32 PM
We will never see KVH's true potential until we get a playmaking PG to feed KVH. His best days were when he played with Sam Cassell and Jason Kidd.
fishmike
Posts: 53837
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 7/19/2002
Member: #298
USA
12/15/2003  2:58 PM
"Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work. "

So far having a PF play there isnt working either.

Management had to make the trade for a bigger player. They didnt Deke would fall into their laps. That being said they traded for a career underachiever, a player lacking mental toughness with a history of disappearing in big games, and a player with a longer contract.

The problem isnt KVH, its management that put together a roster where none of the player compliment each other.

It doesnt take Jerry West to see that Thomas, KVH, McDyess, Deke, Doleac, Houston, Spoon and Harrington arent playmakers, arent good passers, arent good ball handlers and dont go to the FT line.

YET

Its somehow the coach's fault that we lead the league in TOs and never get to the line with that roster.

I miss Spree, but he was waisting away here. I just wish we got an expiring contract or a prospect with an upside. Whether its McDyess, KVH, Spoon, Anderson, Eisley... any player Layden gets is always some other team's cast off.

Its not KVH's fault. He's got a clearly defined set of skills he brings. Layden's gift is finding the what skills every player on the roster has, and ruining them by filling the roster with the exact same kind of player.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
tkf
Posts: 36487
Alba Posts: 6
Joined: 8/13/2001
Member: #87
12/15/2003  3:19 PM
Posted by fishmike:

"Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work. "

So far having a PF play there isnt working either.

Management had to make the trade for a bigger player. They didnt Deke would fall into their laps. That being said they traded for a career underachiever, a player lacking mental toughness with a history of disappearing in big games, and a player with a longer contract.

The problem isnt KVH, its management that put together a roster where none of the player compliment each other.

It doesnt take Jerry West to see that Thomas, KVH, McDyess, Deke, Doleac, Houston, Spoon and Harrington arent playmakers, arent good passers, arent good ball handlers and dont go to the FT line.

YET

Its somehow the coach's fault that we lead the league in TOs and never get to the line with that roster.

I miss Spree, but he was waisting away here. I just wish we got an expiring contract or a prospect with an upside. Whether its McDyess, KVH, Spoon, Anderson, Eisley... any player Layden gets is always some other team's cast off.

Its not KVH's fault. He's got a clearly defined set of skills he brings. Layden's gift is finding the what skills every player on the roster has, and ruining them by filling the roster with the exact same kind of player.

great post, we have a bunch of players that are not complimentary of each other, they are not good passers nor do they handle the ball well, they play hard but all of our players bode well to play off other players that can create, that is why we just go crazy when we see frankie get in the game because we actually have the chance to see a behind the back pass completed from a knick player. when I look on the bench and see spoon, othella, eisley, I just laugh. we need some players who acutally have Skills, simple and basic, dribble, pass, defend skills!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
NYK8
Posts: 20372
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 9/10/2002
Member: #320
USA
12/15/2003  3:43 PM
wow,i counldn't say it any better fellas,good posting.younger&size,APPROVE
!!!Knicks!!!
GucciKnick8
Posts: 20039
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #17
USA
12/15/2003  3:50 PM
Posted by simrud:

Van Horn is being fazed out of the rotation by Anderson of all people. The last 2 games, the ones we actually won, he has played 0, yes 0.00 minutes in the 4th. His fieldgoal percentage is way down, to yes, worse than the "awful shooting" Spree. Spree has been averagin 25 pts a game in the recent Wolves run. Van Horn gets blocked at least twice every game, misses at least one layup a game, and misses all the 3's he takes, makina bout 1 in 5 GAMES. Bust best of all he is young, and we'll have the pleasure to watch him for a long time now. His d is not even brougt up now cause nobody expecet him to play any, but with him and H20 we can only play zone with Matambu and whem Matambu goes to the bench (either when Don the idiot Chaney subs him out for no reason or because of fall trouble) we fall apart. Yeah what a great trade that was.

Go Ahead. . .Preach it! I know that's right! That Van Horn deal was one of the dumbest we've made. Dolan and all his dumb ass crew can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.
"You never know here in New York, stuff can happen on any given day," - - -Marcus Camby23
downdawgy
Posts: 20023
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 11/12/2003
Member: #491
12/15/2003  3:53 PM
since chaney is not going to start thomas and he doesnt feel that williams is quite ready ,and kvh is essentially the same type player as houston[ granted not as efficient] and ward is also relegated to the bench.how about a 2nd unit of thomas, kvh,ward ,williams,either deke or doles . we would have ward and kvh run the pick and roll.kvh and thomas run the hi lo play.williams could drive and dish to either kvh,thomas and ward.ward and thomas are interchangable.thomas and kvh are excellant rebounders. the passing should improve with ward and williams handling the ball.ward and kvh both add perimeter skillls,thomas adds the low post and midrange .the most important thing is that williams gets the important minutes he needs .we effectively put players in positions that they could do well in.defensively they are not bad ,the guards are quick enough ,kvh is adequete and thomas is fine.if you add deke,there you go .you could add harrington to pw and slide thomas to center maybe.
GucciKnick8
Posts: 20039
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #17
USA
12/15/2003  3:54 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Nedyal1:

We are likely better with anderson playing than even Spree! Sometimes you add by subtracting a player.

Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work.

Spree is playing SG with a nice Point, a superstar, and nice role players. He should do well. Enjoy his work on a good team.

Spree could not perform well on this team for many reasons, some are managements fault, and others are HE IS A SHOOTING GUARD.

Personally I would rather see Van Horn play much better and contribute to wins. Some really would rather see him fail. To each his own.

Get it now?

excellent post, and the sad thing is that most people look at the stat sheet and still haven't watched spree play all season, I have seen quite a few Wolves games this year, and I tell you spree has had some ugly game, I mean KVH has not been that bad at times and the key is spree was not going to succeed, getting older and playing out of position on this team, he should do well in MINN, and I wish him well..

Now time to move on, and lets hope KVH suceeds, that bodes well for the knicks!!

Damn TKF, I don't know what's wrong with your eyes/television. But Spree has been so clutch and good for that team. Sure he's had some bad games, but hell who hasn't. I believe your boy Houston has had a few too, not to mention a few injuries. Or wait was that Van horn....Oh my ankle "I spraing my ankle.. or is it"my stomach". . .or maybe it's just MY BAD DEFENSE or my BLOWN LAYUPS!
"You never know here in New York, stuff can happen on any given day," - - -Marcus Camby23
GucciKnick8
Posts: 20039
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #17
USA
12/15/2003  3:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:

"Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work. "

So far having a PF play there isnt working either.

Management had to make the trade for a bigger player. They didnt Deke would fall into their laps. That being said they traded for a career underachiever, a player lacking mental toughness with a history of disappearing in big games, and a player with a longer contract.

The problem isnt KVH, its management that put together a roster where none of the player compliment each other.

It doesnt take Jerry West to see that Thomas, KVH, McDyess, Deke, Doleac, Houston, Spoon and Harrington arent playmakers, arent good passers, arent good ball handlers and dont go to the FT line.

YET

Its somehow the coach's fault that we lead the league in TOs and never get to the line with that roster.

I miss Spree, but he was waisting away here. I just wish we got an expiring contract or a prospect with an upside. Whether its McDyess, KVH, Spoon, Anderson, Eisley... any player Layden gets is always some other team's cast off.

Its not KVH's fault. He's got a clearly defined set of skills he brings. Layden's gift is finding the what skills every player on the roster has, and ruining them by filling the roster with the exact same kind of player.

I'm sorry but Van Horn sucks. His defense is terrible and his TO are just pathetic. The boy could catch a pass if he had crazy glue on his hands and sure couldn't throw pass even if he had Kidd in his body. I'm not even going to touch his FG% for a guy who is 6-11? You gotta be kidding me.
"You never know here in New York, stuff can happen on any given day," - - -Marcus Camby23
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/15/2003  3:59 PM
I'm not defending management here but I think Layden accidently put a decent roster together. This team is not completely terrible. A good coach could take us to the second round of the playoffs with these exact players. The problem is Chaney's rotations and inconsistent minutes. No one gets used to each other to complement each other well enough!

This is the best team we have had since the camby/dice trade and thats not because its minus spree, its because its plus McDyess and Deke. KVH cannot defend well but Shandon can do that. Spree said it himself last year, he was getting tired guarding Paul Pierce and Shareef Abdur Rahim and it was taking away from his offense. If this roster got a good coach, we are going to do well. I just hope Layden doesn't panic on a losing streak and make a dumbass trade.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
GucciKnick8
Posts: 20039
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #17
USA
12/15/2003  4:01 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

I'm not defending management here but I think Layden accidently put a decent roster together. This team is not completely terrible. A good coach could take us to the second round of the playoffs with these exact players. The problem is Chaney's rotations and inconsistent minutes. No one gets used to each other to complement each other well enough!

This is the best team we have had since the camby/dice trade and thats not because its minus spree, its because its plus McDyess and Deke. KVH cannot defend well but Shandon can do that. Spree said it himself last year, he was getting tired guarding Paul Pierce and Shareef Abdur Rahim and it was taking away from his offense. If this roster got a good coach, we are going to do well. I just hope Layden doesn't panic on a losing streak and make a dumbass trade.

Sorry but Spree is still a better defender than Anderson. Anderson is ok. He just looks better this year because we play zone, and we finally have a quasi shot blocker.
"You never know here in New York, stuff can happen on any given day," - - -Marcus Camby23
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/15/2003  4:07 PM
You are making it sound as if Spree is superman and KVH doesn't even belong on a middle school playground! Spree was playing out of position and really hated it! KVH is not doing good right not but he isn't as bad as you make him sound! 14.5 pts and 6.7 rebs is not bad and as far as his FG% goes, it will get better and he will start scoring more! The only bad part is KVH's contract is longer than spree's but KVH and H2O compliment Dice well.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
GucciKnick8
Posts: 20039
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/24/2001
Member: #17
USA
12/15/2003  4:14 PM
Nah, Spree isn't superman. But, you're right on Van "cant play defense" horn doesn't even belong on a elemtary school blacktop, let alone a middle school playground. Damn I hate that guys game, it's garbage. No joke.
"You never know here in New York, stuff can happen on any given day," - - -Marcus Camby23
Silverfuel
Posts: 31750
Alba Posts: 3
Joined: 6/27/2002
Member: #268
USA
12/15/2003  4:21 PM
Posted by GucciKnick8:

Nah, Spree isn't superman. But, you're right on Van "cant play defense" horn doesn't even belong on a elemtary school blacktop, let alone a middle school playground. Damn I hate that guys game, it's garbage. No joke.
You should hate Clarence, Othella and Eisely's more than you should hate KVH! Those are the one's that don't belong on the court! Atleast you have more years with Keith. Spree's speed is going downhill and thats the key to his game!
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
Posts: 26191
Alba Posts: 28
Joined: 6/24/2002
Member: #263
USA
12/15/2003  4:22 PM
Posted by fishmike:

"Dude, it's not really about Van Horn, it was having a declining Shooting guard playing small forward. It did not work. "

So far having a PF play there isnt working either.

Management had to make the trade for a bigger player. They didnt Deke would fall into their laps. That being said they traded for a career underachiever, a player lacking mental toughness with a history of disappearing in big games, and a player with a longer contract.
The problem isnt KVH, its management that put together a roster where none of the player compliment each other.

It doesnt take Jerry West to see that Thomas, KVH, McDyess, Deke, Doleac, Houston, Spoon and Harrington arent playmakers, arent good passers, arent good ball handlers and dont go to the FT line.

YET

Its somehow the coach's fault that we lead the league in TOs and never get to the line with that roster.

I miss Spree, but he was wasting away here. I just wish we got an expiring contract or a prospect with an upside. Whether its McDyess, KVH, Spoon, Anderson, Eisley... any player Layden gets is always some other team's cast off.
Its not KVH's fault. He's got a clearly defined set of skills he brings. Layden's gift is finding the what skills every player on the roster has, and ruining them by filling the roster with the exact same kind of player.

Good post, fish. You mentioned the same things many of us said about KVH when the trade went down. While it may surprise some, it wasn't front page news to me at all how we play better without KVH on the floor. Aside from the boards, all he does is commit silly fouls and turn the ball over.

I say if we can't trade KVH before the deadline, leave him unprotected for the Bobcats' expansion draft this coming offseason.

What was the cliche' again? Addition by Subtraction. There ya go.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Page 1 of 2  1  2 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
How about the Spree trade now?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy