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Do you think we can really win a championship with MDA
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knicks1248
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8/24/2009  8:16 PM
I constantly here that just about any player could thrive in MDA system, yet I constantly here that he's lack of a defensive scheme will hinder him anywhere pass the conference finals..

IMO the scheme is more important then the player in todays game, in other words as good of a defender a player is, todays nba rules almost forbid you to even sneeze near a player.

I think in todays game a trever ariza is much better to have then a ron artest or a camby is better then a oakly.

Mda does not teach defensive schemes let's face it, I don't think bringing defensive players will help much as I mention before.

When I look at how bad Lee was last year, I also have to consider it wasn't just his awful foot work, but knowing how thin we were at the center position, foul trouble was probably part of the reason he chose to lay down the red carpet in the paint. (Can't ever forgive him for the game winning drive by roy) blew right by him.

But if we are to support Mike and his system, even if we start winning 50+ games, is it good enough to win championships with just basic defense, and a great offensive scheme.

No one seems to think so.
ES
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crzymdups
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8/24/2009  8:19 PM
let's see if we can get to .500 first.
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Knicksfan
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8/24/2009  8:36 PM
Yes
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knicks1248
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8/24/2009  8:41 PM
So you would be happy with a 9 game improvement. Considering we had a 10 game improvement and that didn't seem to get anyone excited
ES
martin
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8/24/2009  8:44 PM
How about we put some evidence regarding how good MDA is with both offensive and defensive schemes.

His longest tenure was with PHO. Anyone care to post team offensive and defensive #'s on a per possession basis? That should be a good starting point for this discussion.
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Moonangie
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8/24/2009  9:40 PM
I think MDA's system will need to be augmented defensively to enable a team to make a run at a championship. At very least, he can't de-emphasize -D- the way he (sort of) does now. Hard-nosed, team defense, with aggressive switching, tough screen breaking, quick perimeter closing, and forceful rejection in the paint will ALL be needed to win a championship. Always has been that way. That's on the players from the standpoint of effort. So conditioning must be emphasized as well.

But yes to MDA's system, given the right attitude and defensive assistant coach.
SupremeCommander
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8/24/2009  9:44 PM
Posted by martin:

How about we put some evidence regarding how good MDA is with both offensive and defensive schemes.

His longest tenure was with PHO. Anyone care to post team offensive and defensive #'s on a per possession basis? That should be a good starting point for this discussion.

but that would totally deflate one side's argument! (as would mention of Sarver being cheap as hell and having no bench as a result)
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martin
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8/24/2009  9:52 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by martin:

How about we put some evidence regarding how good MDA is with both offensive and defensive schemes.

His longest tenure was with PHO. Anyone care to post team offensive and defensive #'s on a per possession basis? That should be a good starting point for this discussion.

but that would totally deflate one side's argument! (as would mention of Sarver being cheap as hell and having no bench as a result)

add a dash of Robby's hipcheck.
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orangeblobman
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8/24/2009  9:58 PM
Hell yea for sure we'll win a championship with MDA. Dude, we have Gallo, Chandler, and something crazy coming in the future, too. So yea, why not? MDA was really close a few times with the Suns and Donnie Walsh was close a few times with the Pacers, this is a good situation for both.
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SupremeCommander
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8/24/2009  9:58 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by martin:

How about we put some evidence regarding how good MDA is with both offensive and defensive schemes.

His longest tenure was with PHO. Anyone care to post team offensive and defensive #'s on a per possession basis? That should be a good starting point for this discussion.

but that would totally deflate one side's argument! (as would mention of Sarver being cheap as hell and having no bench as a result)

add a dash of Robby's hipcheck.

and a sprinkle of Tim Donaghy's gambling debt
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franco12
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8/24/2009  10:54 PM
Do you think we can really win a championship with MDA

Wait- I think the answer to this question isn't about 'Does MDA teach Defense' and its more about 'How long will MDA be here' and 'Will we get him the talent to contend'.

I don't believe MDA will have a chance to contend here - I just don't see the talent coming in time.
Cosmic
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8/24/2009  10:59 PM
Let's see if we can get more than one bonafide starter on the team before we question what Mike can do as a coach.

As of now Al Harrington is the only truly legit starting caliber player we have on the team that could start on a good team.

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franco12
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8/24/2009  11:03 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Let's see if we can get more than one bonafide starter on the team before we question what Mike can do as a coach.

As of now Al Harrington is the only truly legit starting caliber player we have on the team that could start on a good team.

you are really too kind to Harrington
Panos
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8/24/2009  11:15 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Cosmic:

Let's see if we can get more than one bonafide starter on the team before we question what Mike can do as a coach.

As of now Al Harrington is the only truly legit starting caliber player we have on the team that could start on a good team.

you are really too kind to Harrington


No one said he was a superstar. He's definitely a starting caliber player.
knicks1248
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8/25/2009  12:47 AM
I think MDA is here for 5 years at the very least.

And again the argument is always that he came close with the suns.

Ahhh, sloan came close how many times. I think there has to be a balance no matter how you look at it, and I feel the coaching staff plays a huge role in that balance. I hate to use steph as a reference, but the one thing he said and emphasize about mike was his lack of detail to defense(no secret there). Now that can be look at as a bias statement, but when you ask the same players who played in the olympics all they ever rave about is his free flowing offense.

The Heat, LA, SA, pistons, celtics, will never be mistaken for run and gun teams that put up big numbers, yet those are the teams they have won it all in the last 10 years.

Mike loves his coaching staff so I don't see him changing anyone anytime soon, if ever. With no balance how do you win.
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
8/25/2009  5:58 AM
If only 7% of the teams in the league use MDA's offense or something similiar to it then the pool of teams from which a champion can come out of is very small. There are only a handful of teams running an MDA-type system that are even competing in the league.

The rest of the league, 93%, has a more traditional balance of offense and defense. This system has a greater chance to win a championship just by sample size.

So when MDA got close in Phoenix it seemed to me a huge endorsement of his basketball philosophy.
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martin
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8/25/2009  9:44 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

I think MDA is here for 5 years at the very least.

And again the argument is always that he came close with the suns.

Ahhh, sloan came close how many times. I think there has to be a balance no matter how you look at it, and I feel the coaching staff plays a huge role in that balance. I hate to use steph as a reference, but the one thing he said and emphasize about mike was his lack of detail to defense(no secret there). Now that can be look at as a bias statement, but when you ask the same players who played in the olympics all they ever rave about is his free flowing offense.

The Heat, LA, SA, pistons, celtics, will never be mistaken for run and gun teams that put up big numbers, yet those are the teams they have won it all in the last 10 years.

Mike loves his coaching staff so I don't see him changing anyone anytime soon, if ever. With no balance how do you win.

as evidence of MDA not engaging defensive schemes into his team you offer the word of Marbury? Not something like, I don't know, statistics?

Of all the players, you want to quote and take the word of Marbury?
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djsunyc
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8/25/2009  9:50 AM
getting to championship level really doesn't have too much to do with the coach. it's about having a top50 all time talent on your team. that should put you in the hunt most of the time. if a coach is that important to winning a title, then you could argue mike brown is a better coach than d'antoni. i think a coach's biggest impact is on teams that don't know how to win or have undeveloped talent. and that's usually the case on teams without that top50 talent.
Moonangie
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8/25/2009  10:32 AM
Posted by orangeblobman:

If only 7% of the teams in the league use MDA's offense or something similiar to it then the pool of teams from which a champion can come out of is very small. There are only a handful of teams running an MDA-type system that are even competing in the league.

The rest of the league, 93%, has a more traditional balance of offense and defense. This system has a greater chance to win a championship just by sample size.

So when MDA got close in Phoenix it seemed to me a huge endorsement of his basketball philosophy.

Interesting take on the stats. I never really thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense.

Like I said above, defense will come from team leadership among the players. I assure you, if LBJ comes to the NYK, we will have one of the toughest defensive units in the league. Desire to win will prompt the guys to make the requisite effort on that side of the court. And D is all about effort. They will need good cardio conditioning because they will run a lot, and they may need a 9-guy rotation, but when it comes to making stops, rotating, closing on the perimeter, busting through screens, being tough down low, boxing out, and grabbing boards, it's MOSTLY about effort, not coaching philosphy.

MDA's system is geared toward fast pace, ball movement, and quick scoring. That doesn't in any way preclude effort on D. He just doesn't emphasize it. But he doesn't tell the guys "Don't bother with D, just grab boards and run".
Allanfan20
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8/25/2009  10:59 AM
I think he had chances in Phoenix, so I think with the right cast of characters, he can help us win it here. We need a team though. DJ is 100% correct that it tends to start with having a top 50 all time player, and no, Stephon Marbury is not a top 50 player. Allen Iverson is well past those days as well.
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