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Parity in the NBA
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eViL
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7/21/2009  7:05 PM
In the last 8 seasons, 5 teams in each respective conference have occupied the top four spots in their conference 72% of the time.

In the east:

Detroit
Boston
New Jersey
Miami
Cleveland.

In the west:

San Antonio
Dallas
LA Lakers
Phoenix
Sacramento

That means, over the last eight seasons, one third of each conference is dominating the top half of the playoff brackets almost three quarters of the time which leaves little room for movement among the rest of the teams.

How does this effect one's rebuilding philosophy? Knowing this, does it make Walsh's prudent approach seem more or less likely to work?

The way I see it, if you wanna contend in the NBA you have to be in the top half of your conference. It's not easy to get in and stay in and mistakes can set you back dramatically. I support the current regime because I see their plan as one which provides for the greatest flexibility now and into the future. I also recognize that not having a first rounder alters the picture, but I can't justify trying to correct one mistake by possibly making another especially when mistakes can set you back so long.

In conclusion, come see my band this Saturday, oh and does anyone have any thoughts on parity in the NBA and how it should shape a GM's plan? The Knicks plan?
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kam77
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7/21/2009  8:11 PM
The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
bitty41
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7/21/2009  8:36 PM
Most of these teams became contenders through the draft either directly or by having lotto picks available for trades. So what does that say about Walsh's approach.
eViL
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7/21/2009  8:37 PM
Posted by kam77:

The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.

I agree. That's why I think Walsh is right for securing the possibility of signing one of those great players. I mean, we're not just talking about cap space. We're talking about cap space during the hugest free agency period in recent memory.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
bitty41
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7/21/2009  8:41 PM
Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.
kam77
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7/21/2009  8:48 PM
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
bitty41
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7/21/2009  9:03 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.
Knicksfan
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7/21/2009  9:06 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.

And you think he hasn't started that process?
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eViL
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7/21/2009  9:25 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.

I don't know if you are truly appreciating how difficult it is to turn an NBA franchise around. I agree with you that the best way to establish a franchise is to draft a once in generation type player, but not every draft class has one. Last I checked Walsh hasn't passed on any franchise talents. Flawed players with big contracts will always be available by trade. The 2010 FA class includes players that will never otherwise be on the trade market unless it's a sign and trade during that offseason.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
loweyecue
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7/21/2009  11:08 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.

Does this still have something to do wih Zach Randolph?
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
bitty41
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7/22/2009  9:42 AM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.

I don't know if you are truly appreciating how difficult it is to turn an NBA franchise around. I agree with you that the best way to establish a franchise is to draft a once in generation type player, but not every draft class has one. Last I checked Walsh hasn't passed on any franchise talents. Flawed players with big contracts will always be available by trade. The 2010 FA class includes players that will never otherwise be on the trade market unless it's a sign and trade during that offseason.

Then why did Walsh even sign on to the job if he's not even going to make an attempt at improving the team until 2 years down the line and I'm waiting for the answer as to what logic he used in hiring a coach for 10 million dollars a year if his plan was to clear cap space.
martin
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7/22/2009  9:48 AM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by bitty41:

Doesn't this assume that teams are going to let their stars walk away for nothing? Or that they will be no other teams looking sign any of these guys.

What happens if LBJ goes FA and Walsh hadn't cleared cap space and LBron ends up with the NETS and takes over the city when they move to Brooklyn?

Can't let that happen right? Why is the great Rod Thorn following the same strategy? Why is half the NBA clearing salary?

Because actually have valuable assets and players that have post-season experience. The Nets are also coming off of a team that was aging and had run it's course. Walsh job was suppose to be about restoring some kind of legitimacy to the Knicks organization.

I don't know if you are truly appreciating how difficult it is to turn an NBA franchise around. I agree with you that the best way to establish a franchise is to draft a once in generation type player, but not every draft class has one. Last I checked Walsh hasn't passed on any franchise talents. Flawed players with big contracts will always be available by trade. The 2010 FA class includes players that will never otherwise be on the trade market unless it's a sign and trade during that offseason.

Then why did Walsh even sign on to the job if he's not even going to make an attempt at improving the team until 2 years down the line and I'm waiting for the answer as to what logic he used in hiring a coach for 10 million dollars a year if his plan was to clear cap space.

bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.
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bitty41
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7/22/2009  9:52 AM
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.
markvmc
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7/22/2009  9:53 AM
Surprised to see Boston on that list. I thought they weren't top-four material in recent years until they got KG and RA.
martin
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7/22/2009  10:03 AM
Posted by bitty41:
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.

what you are suggesting is that Walsh does not have a plan. He does and he has stated it and it's obvious and I know you know it. It's a 3 part plan: get rid of the bad crap that Isiah left, give the team cap and trade flexibility all while making sure the Knicks are in the market for 2010, change the dumbass culture that Isiah left.

We all know that plan. And he immediately took steps to implement that plan. If you haven't gotten that, you are really in denial. Zbo, Crawford, Balkman, Marbury, Big Game, etc. all gone. Cap flexibility in 2010. Winning coach in place.

The Knicks do have young players that need teaching: Lee, Nate, Chandler, Gallo, Curry. That's why hire the best coach possible.

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martin
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7/22/2009  10:12 AM
Posted by bitty41:
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.

oh, another thing: It's funny that you suggest that Walsh has no immediate intentions of turning the team around but at the same time also suggest that he has hired a very good and expensive coach. Those 2 things seem mutually exclusive.
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:18 AM
Posted by eViL:
Posted by kam77:

The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.

I agree. That's why I think Walsh is right for securing the possibility of signing one of those great players. I mean, we're not just talking about cap space. We're talking about cap space during the hugest free agency period in recent memory.

nothing wrong with walsh's plan for all-in 2010. i just question if it was necessary b/c what if he doesn't get his guy in 2010, then what? is he going to sign his 4th choice like he's rumored to be doing with sessions?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:19 AM]
nyk4ever
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7/22/2009  10:21 AM
Posted by bitty41:
bitty, did you really just post that? Cause it seems like a post out of frustration and makes no sense whatsoever.

Why take a job at a crappy organization if you have no immediate intentions of turning the team around? Then waste even more money on a coach if this just a deconstruction period.

Maybe because Walsh liked the coach? Had Walsh not hired D'Antoni when he did, he wasn't going to be around when it came time to "contend"
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Bippity10
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7/22/2009  10:25 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by kam77:

The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.

I agree. That's why I think Walsh is right for securing the possibility of signing one of those great players. I mean, we're not just talking about cap space. We're talking about cap space during the hugest free agency period in recent memory.

nothing wrong with walsh's plan for all-in 2010. i just question if it was necessary b/c what if he doesn't get his guy in 2010, then what? is he going to sign his 4th choice like he's rumored to be doing with sessions?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:19 AM]

Then what? Then you are in the same position you should have been in anyway. Cap space, young players, vets with short contracts. We keep acting as if Lebron doesn't sign then we are doomed, yet at the same time we all seem to realize we had to clean out the roster anyway. Getting a shot at the Lebron types is just a bonus.
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djsunyc
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7/22/2009  10:29 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by eViL:
Posted by kam77:

The NBA is just like the playground. If your team has the best player around, you're staying on the court all day.

It's not like that in other major sports. There's much more emphasis on a complete team. In the NBA if you have Batman and Robin, or a Big Three, you're a serious contender regardless of the rest of the roster.

If so few great players control the destiny of NBA franchises and player movement is rare... then you have the NBA.

I agree. That's why I think Walsh is right for securing the possibility of signing one of those great players. I mean, we're not just talking about cap space. We're talking about cap space during the hugest free agency period in recent memory.

nothing wrong with walsh's plan for all-in 2010. i just question if it was necessary b/c what if he doesn't get his guy in 2010, then what? is he going to sign his 4th choice like he's rumored to be doing with sessions?

[Edited by - djsunyc on 07-22-2009 10:19 AM]

Then what? Then you are in the same position you should have been in anyway. Cap space, young players, vets with short contracts. We keep acting as if Lebron doesn't sign then we are doomed, yet at the same time we all seem to realize we had to clean out the roster anyway. Getting a shot at the Lebron types is just a bonus.

that's cool...but my whole premise is that the team could've been in the same position in 2011 but actually winning a bunch of games and advancing in the playoffs w/ d'antoni at coach.
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