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Summer Draft grades 1st round and 2nd round notables
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BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  12:59 AM
Blake Griffin--A-
James Harden B+
Hasheem Thabeet D-
Tyreke Evans B
Johnny Flynn A+
Stephon Curry C-
Jordan Hilll C+
Demar Derozan A-
Branden Jennings A-
Terrance Williams D+
Gerald Hendersen--D
Tyler H--A
Earl Clark C
Austin Daye A
James Johnson B
Jrue Holiday D+
Ty Lawson C+
Darren Collison A-
Eric Maynor--F
Omri Casspi D
B J Mullens C-
Rodrigue Beaubois--A-
Taj Gibson A
Demarre Carroll---B+
Wayne Ellington--B +
Toney Douglas--C
Christian Eyenga B
2nd round notables
Jodie Meeks MVP of draft A+
Chase Budinger A+
Dante Cunningham A
Dejuan Blair A
Marcus Thorton B+
DaJuan Summers B
Sam Young B
Derrick Brown B
AJ Price B-

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 07-19-2009 05:26 AM]
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franco12
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7/19/2009  7:17 AM
Briggs- I've only been able to watch some of the knicks games, but you are SO FAR off on Toney Douglas that I have to throw out the rest of your grades - I mean, if you are this off on TD, what does that say about the rest of your grades?

I appreciate that you have probably watched them, but lets get real for a moment!
Cosmic
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7/19/2009  8:02 AM
Douglas: B ... if the shot were falling more often I'd probably give him an A. I love the speed, vision, and coachability, and leadership.

Hill: C- ... not terrible but certainly not what we were led to believe he was going to be. Was hesitant to give him worse, based on his lack of intensity that I was told was off the charts, but figured maybe he's out of shape or gimpy. Yet, out of shape is inexcusable IMO, so C- it is. He did seem better last night though.


...I couldn't care less about anyone else. The bigger names we know. Thabust. Curry is brick laying. Flynn looks very good. But, I really don't give a crap.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  10:14 AM
Posted by franco12:

Briggs- I've only been able to watch some of the knicks games, but you are SO FAR off on Toney Douglas that I have to throw out the rest of your grades - I mean, if you are this off on TD, what does that say about the rest of your grades?

I appreciate that you have probably watched them, but lets get real for a moment!

If you watched other PGs like Flynn and Collison--you would understand clearly why Douglas is graded C. He is shooting 27% --his teams is 0-4---he overdribbles with the ball [he shouldve had three backcourt violations yesterday alone] I cant see how you can grade douglas anything more than a c[that is fair]--did you see Collison play at all? He is two grades down from him--it's just the bottom line.
RIP Crushalot😞
Bippity10
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7/19/2009  10:43 AM
A part of Blake Griffin's game that I never noticed before is that he is a solid passer
I just hope that people will like me
rvwink
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7/19/2009  4:33 PM
"Collison has been the most baffling rookie point guard in Vegas.

Someone who was a noted for his three point shooting and pure point guard skills out of UCLA, Collison is shooting 16.7 percent from three and averaging 3.8 assists per game."

Bleacher Report.com

"did you see Collison play at all? He is two grades down from him--it's just the bottom line." "Apparently much of Collison's point average came from a 29 for 30 performance from the "charity" strip.
Since when is an average of 3.8 Assists per game worthy of an A-, i.e. 2 grades better than someone who averaged more than twice the number of assists per game.

What is it that Collison's performance demonstrated? Standing 6 feet, and weighing 165 pounds means he needs to be fast as lighting just to have a chance to survive as a back up point guard imo. Aside from his speed, what else did he impress you with?
GKFv2
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7/19/2009  4:35 PM
Thabeet is the 2nd pick in the NBA draft. He gets an F.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
rvwink
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7/19/2009  4:50 PM
Heres the writeup on Toney Douglas.

"No one expected Douglas, who averaged 21.5 points per game at Florida State this year, to have a single-digit (9.0) average in Las Vegas, but that’s the way the ball bounces.

Douglas is shooting a frustrating 27.5 percent from the field and 9.1 percent from three, but he has stayed optimistic and Mike D’Antoni didn’t seem concerned in an in-game interview with the NBA.com crew.

The reason D’Antoni and the Knicks have been satisfied with Douglas’ play is because of his 7.0 to 2.75 assist to turnover differential on average. Through his first two games, Douglas had 21 assists and two turnovers, which is outstanding.

Not only is Douglas showing he can play the NBA point, but he has been the most tenacious on-ball defender in the Summer League.

Douglas rides his man up and down the court, helping him to average 2.0 steals per game with some very clean picks.

Tough D and the ability to create will help Douglas play, and potentially start, for New York."

So a guy with 2 steals a game, and most tenacious on ball defender with a 7 to 2.75 assist to turnover ratios that the writer thinks could potentially start in NY is worthy of a C?
rvwink
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7/19/2009  5:28 PM
Johnny Flynn A+

"Flynn has been shooting the ball especially well through four games in Vegas, going 52.5 percent from the field, 75.0 percent from three, and 90.9 percent from the stripe.

An average of 5.5 turnovers per game offset his 7.5 assists per game and Flynn has only recorded three steals--giving him a few things to work on to increase his production efficiency."

High shooting percentage, inferior turnover ratio, low number of steals. No mention of his defense. What makes this an A+?
rvwink
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7/19/2009  5:43 PM
Brandon Jennings A-

"A theme with these young point guards has been turnovers. In Jennings’ first four games he had 13, in his last game he had eight--turnovers weren't on constant concern but they can pile-up fast if not monitored. " (21 turnovers in 5 games for an average of 4 per game.)

Here's my point. In the Summer League you are trying to produce good numbers with a team that you have never played with before, and are putting in a new offensive scheme to boot. Under these circumstances, no point guard was able to post great numbers across the board.

You post your scores as objectively as possible based on how the players look to you. Some of the point guards passing impressed you more than others. But it doesn't appear you studied all of their statistics closely because clearly A scores should not go hand in hand with high turnover ratios imo. Can you justify your A grades in light of the inefficient ball distribution from most of the point guards you liked most?
BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  8:05 PM
rvwink--when I look at whole picture with the players--I have to look at a bottom line. The bottom line is a player who shoots 27% cannot be graded higher than a C--I don't care how fast a player is etc..His defense was good at times and sometimes not that good--he got mauled by Marcus Williams. He had a good A-T % ratio but did he really play that well offensively beyond that and he got worse as the week went on--he over dribbled--he shouldve been called for multiple extra TO's in that last game where he clearly made 3 backcourt violations--two in a row in one sequence--was fumbling with the ball falling on the ground--the team didnt win he nearly threw up a second air ball from 6 feet-- Johnny Flynn was a guy who had some TO's but otherwise looked like a 6th pick in a draft. He shot it great from all over the court--I thought he played good defense--he had some big assist numbers--he was productive and showed a great deal I thought in terms of scoring he was much more diversified offensively and far superior than Douglas and I think he plays the PG position better--he moves the ball well he gets into the lane he has good vision--he looked like a lottery pick bottom line--he deserves an A+ I thought he was the best PG out of a heavy PG draft--to me that is A+

I don't see how a fair evaluation can give Toney Douglas anything more than a C when he shot 27%--that alone is a brutal number--brutal.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  8:14 PM
Posted by rvwink:

Brandon Jennings A-

"A theme with these young point guards has been turnovers. In Jennings’ first four games he had 13, in his last game he had eight--turnovers weren't on constant concern but they can pile-up fast if not monitored. " (21 turnovers in 5 games for an average of 4 per game.)

Here's my point. In the Summer League you are trying to produce good numbers with a team that you have never played with before, and are putting in a new offensive scheme to boot. Under these circumstances, no point guard was able to post great numbers across the board.

You post your scores as objectively as possible based on how the players look to you. Some of the point guards passing impressed you more than others. But it doesn't appear you studied all of their statistics closely because clearly A scores should not go hand in hand with high turnover ratios imo. Can you justify your A grades in light of the inefficient ball distribution from most of the point guards you liked most?

Im sorry but watching Branden Jennings he looks like he has two way star qualities. At the bottom line he had GREAT chemistry with Meeks set him up to score and made him a better player--thats what it is all about for a PG--on top of that he was the best defensive guard bar none in this summer league--very disruptive. He shot the ball from 3 land well--he averaged 4 steals and his team was 4-1 he was a solid distributor--showed he could score. His production on defense[which i thought was imposing] brought him up to an A- from a B--Douglas didnt cause nearly the havoc that jennings did--and if you watched him--youd understand.
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rvwink
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7/19/2009  8:39 PM
"If a player shoots 27% he can't be graded higher than C. Even if he is distributing well."

In the same fashion if a player has 5.5 turnovers to to 7.5 assists, how can you possibly give Johnny Flynn an A+ grade? Doesn't A+ means the player has no serious flaws?

.
BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  9:33 PM
Posted by rvwink:

"If a player shoots 27% he can't be graded higher than C. Even if he is distributing well."

In the same fashion if a player has 5.5 turnovers to to 7.5 assists, how can you possibly give Johnny Flynn an A+ grade? Doesn't A+ means the player has no serious flaws?

.

It means he was the best PG that I saw from what was supposed to be a very top heavy PG draft and that he looked all of a high lottery pick. I think that he deserved a top score.
RIP Crushalot😞
rvwink
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7/19/2009  9:56 PM
Please tell me again why you can't overlook Douglas' poor shooting percentage, while you clearly can overlook Flynn's poor assist to turnover ratio?

Were you specifically aware of Flynn's 5.5 turnovers per game when you gave him an A+?
LivingLegend
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7/19/2009  10:08 PM
I really only focused a the Knicks kids and a few other guys.

I would say Jordan Hill is a C+ at worst -- I thought today was his best game. You have to realize he was NOT used to having to roam out past the top of the key on offense for AZ. Today was his best game and he showed a # of things that indicate he has outstanding potential.

I would say Douglas gets a B- -- and this is only because of his shooting. Had he shot the ball even poorly at 40% he would have graded a B+ or A-. The rest of his game was pretty damn good - particularly considering he was billed as a combo (Eddie House) type guard.

I thought Thabeet earned an F and I've been a big fan of his throughout.

I also thought Curry was a C- --- his shooting % and selection were awful and I don't think he proved he's a legit point in the NBA. I think Douglas proved that much more than Curry.

In fact -- after riding Curry's nut=sack for so long --- I think I'm happy with the size, athleticism and potential Hill brings over Curry's skill.
BRIGGS
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7/19/2009  10:11 PM
Posted by LivingLegend:

I really only focused a the Knicks kids and a few other guys.

I would say Jordan Hill is a C+ at worst -- I thought today was his best game. You have to realize he was NOT used to having to roam out past the top of the key on offense for AZ. Today was his best game and he showed a # of things that indicate he has outstanding potential.

I would say Douglas gets a B- -- and this is only because of his shooting. Had he shot the ball even poorly at 40% he would have graded a B+ or A-. The rest of his game was pretty damn good - particularly considering he was billed as a combo (Eddie House) type guard.

I thought Thabeet earned an F and I've been a big fan of his throughout.

I also thought Curry was a C- --- his shooting % and selection were awful and I don't think he proved he's a legit point in the NBA. I think Douglas proved that much more than Curry.

In fact -- after riding Curry's nut=sack for so long --- I think I'm happy with the size, athleticism and potential Hill brings over Curry's skill.

I thought the last game moved Hill to a B. he showed improvement all week and shot better than 50% in the last two games. Usually the last game of 5 means crp but in his case he played big minutes and played hard and well.
RIP Crushalot😞
ramtour420
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7/19/2009  10:16 PM
Clearly, BRIGGS gave them all a curve, best player at the position gets top score no matter what and everyone else's score at that position is determined by subtracting their minuses from the top guy's score. Seems fair and during standardized tests its a great indication of what the pupils learned without it being influenced by how much the teacher knows/how hard the questions are/what type of knowledge does the teacher think all of the students must have. I find it hard to apply to NBA tho as its kinda difficult to say what should have more weight for a point guard, his shooting or his assists-to-turnovers ratio, for example. In the 1st case best shooting PG gets an A+, in second case the one with best ratio gets the top grade. Likely its a combination of both and given how its prolly easier to score than distribute in SL, rvwink has a strong point i think.
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
tkf
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7/19/2009  10:52 PM
LOL Briggs.. LOL!!! wow!!!
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Bonn1997
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7/20/2009  4:34 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

I'm just bitter that Donnie had the nerve not to utilize my scouting expertise. I thought they'd notice me if I posted 3 draft threads a day here!
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Summer Draft grades 1st round and 2nd round notables
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