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Caseloads
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12/7/2003  11:39 AM
Chad recently had an article about Center being the most important position on the floor. I beg to differ. The PG play is the most important - look at each and every squad. WITHOUT a top PG, in good health, you're sunk. Look at the Hornets. Baron is on point. Healthy.

Look at the Nets. Kidd is hurting, the Nets are reeling. you know what i'm saying?

Look at the Knicks. Poor PG play kills the team. Leading the league in turnovers. Can't get the offense going. Just bad decisions...

I could go on and on, but it's really bad PG that kills teams.

Last year versus San An, it wasn't Shaq, it was Fisher. He got broken down constantly by Parker, period. Parker knew the right guy to hit, the right plays to make.
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martin
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12/7/2003  12:07 PM
How about this? During the regular season a consitant PG is most important, but during the playoffs, especially considering Shaq, Portland, and Duncan, the center position may be the path to the trophy.
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martin
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12/7/2003  12:08 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

Chad recently had an article...

What is this, did you finally slap down the $35 necessary for the subsciption?
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BRIGGS
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12/7/2003  12:42 PM
disagree look at past champions over the last 20+ years only isiah and magic were great PGs. Other teams had serviceable PGs. derek fisher steve kerr bj armstrong dennis johnson kenny smith avery johnson etc... Big man is always the most important position unless you have a kobe MJ and the appropriate talent around them.

college=guards most important

nba=big man.
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Caseloads
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12/7/2003  3:06 PM
Posted by martin:

How about this? During the regular season a consitant PG is most important, but during the playoffs, especially considering Shaq, Portland, and Duncan, the center position may be the path to the trophy.
right, regular season you need a really good PG to pull you through... but the SAME is true with the playoffs, you need a good PG to advance, but it's the big guys who dominate... but they need the PG to make it happen. UNLESS your name is JORDAN (and you have Scottie Pippen).

Plus, you guys are forgetting that the Bulls had Ron Harper at PG, who was a SG, but converted to PG and absolutely rocked.
martin
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12/7/2003  3:13 PM
Posted by Caseloads:
Posted by martin:

How about this? During the regular season a consitant PG is most important, but during the playoffs, especially considering Shaq, Portland, and Duncan, the center position may be the path to the trophy.
right, regular season you need a really good PG to pull you through... but the SAME is true with the playoffs, you need a good PG to advance, but it's the big guys who dominate... but they need the PG to make it happen. UNLESS your name is JORDAN (and you have Scottie Pippen).

Plus, you guys are forgetting that the Bulls had Ron Harper at PG, who was a SG, but converted to PG and absolutely rocked.

How about Houston during Hakeem's years? KSmith and a young Cassel? The Dream did it for them (and Starks)?
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Caseloads
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12/7/2003  3:14 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Caseloads:

Chad recently had an article...

What is this, did you finally slap down the $35 necessary for the subsciption?
Actually, no... another site posts insider and all the related articles every day...

http://www.hawksquawk.net/forums/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=aroundtl&page=0&view=expanded&sb=5&o=0

bookmark that guys...

We should really extend the links section on this site...

you should put in insidehoops, dimemag, etc... there's a lot of great sites out there.
Silverfuel
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12/7/2003  3:15 PM
I remember Duncan and Robinson dominating us with pretty average guards. They won a title beating a lot of teams with more talent than them.

It's a lot of things most important of which is talent but also how well the coach uses the talent in his offensive and definsive schemes bringing out the best in his players.
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Caseloads
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12/7/2003  3:40 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:

I remember Duncan and Robinson dominating us with pretty average guards. They won a title beating a lot of teams with more talent than them.

It's a lot of things most important of which is talent but also how well the coach uses the talent in his offensive and definsive schemes bringing out the best in his players.
avery was rock solid man
Silverfuel
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12/7/2003  3:46 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

The PG play is the most important - look at each and every squad. WITHOUT a top PG, in good health, you're sunk.

Look at the Hornets. Baron is on point. Healthy.
Look at the Nets. Kidd is hurting, the Nets are reeling. you know what i'm saying?

avery was rock solid man

He was rock solid but nothing spectacular. Definately not a top PG who can dominate like Baron or Kidd.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
martin
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12/7/2003  4:02 PM
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Caseloads:

The PG play is the most important - look at each and every squad. WITHOUT a top PG, in good health, you're sunk.

Look at the Hornets. Baron is on point. Healthy.
Look at the Nets. Kidd is hurting, the Nets are reeling. you know what i'm saying?

avery was rock solid man

He was rock solid but nothing spectacular. Definately not a top PG who can dominate like Baron or Kidd.

gotta agree. Duncan made Avery a rock solid man, Avery didn't add anything to Duncan's game.
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Caseloads
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12/7/2003  5:07 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Silverfuel:
Posted by Caseloads:

The PG play is the most important - look at each and every squad. WITHOUT a top PG, in good health, you're sunk.

Look at the Hornets. Baron is on point. Healthy.
Look at the Nets. Kidd is hurting, the Nets are reeling. you know what i'm saying?

avery was rock solid man

He was rock solid but nothing spectacular. Definately not a top PG who can dominate like Baron or Kidd.

gotta agree. Duncan made Avery a rock solid man, Avery didn't add anything to Duncan's game.
Avery still had game, seriously. He was a Darryl Armstrong type baller. Look what happenned to the Magic when Darryl, their PG, left...
Silverfuel
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12/7/2003  5:47 PM
My only point was that no Top player at 'one' position can definately win you a Championship. If you have a dominant player that cannot be stopped at any one of the 5 positions, you have a good shot at winning the championship. Look at the last number of championship teams. Bulls (jordan), Spurs (Duncan), Lakers (Shaq, Kobe)

Of course it doesn't hurt to have 2 like the Lakers do. Oh wait, I mean 4.
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NYK8
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12/7/2003  6:54 PM
It all starts wit the PG.look at the teams wit out a dominating big man.hornets,suns,nets,kings wit out CWebb,rockets b4 Yao,up comers bucks,chicago,jazz etc....
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Silverfuel
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12/7/2003  9:00 PM
Posted by NYK8:

It all starts wit the PG.look at the teams wit out a dominating big man.hornets,suns,nets,kings wit out CWebb,rockets b4 Yao,up comers bucks,chicago,jazz etc....

But it all ends with Centers and PF's. Duncan, Shaq, Garnett, Dirk, Cwebb, Jermaine, Carmello, Pau Gasol etc...

I see ur point about the PG's though.

"During the regular season a consitant PG is most important, but during the playoffs, especially considering Shaq, Portland, and Duncan, the center position may be the path to the trophy." - martin
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
gunsnewing
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12/7/2003  10:54 PM
A top-notch center will win you a title. unless you're the knicks
martin
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12/8/2003  12:03 AM
Posted by gunsnewing:

A top-notch center will win you a title. unless you're the knicks

tell you what, no jordan and ewing has like 3 titles.
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Nedyal1
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12/8/2003  11:03 AM
Martin:

Hence the argument of Ewings greatness. If patrick gave up some offensive statistics, he might have had at least on ring.

He was a warrior and his line speaks for itself. He was a great player, but perhaps in denial over some things at times.

But its done and over with.

Rockets may have to choose between Yao and stevie. I would trade Francis for Kidd and try to win in the next 3 years with kidd moving and feeding into yao and great shooter in Mobley.

Baron has really elevated his game, can dominate much like TimBug did 10 years ago. But Baron has more lift.
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martin
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12/8/2003  11:32 AM
Posted by Nedyal1:

Martin:

Hence the argument of Ewings greatness. If patrick gave up some offensive statistics, he might have had at least on ring.

I would agree with in you for a little while, but the original arguement also speaks to the greatness of Jordan. It also speaks to the lack of support Ewing had. Jordan always had Pippen - and a Pippen in his prime. Ewing had some borderline all-stars - and read that as "flawed all-stars" - next to him.
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Silverfuel
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12/8/2003  12:02 PM
Ewing is the man and the only reason why we were good for 15 years. He left and the mayhem started when the door closed behind him. Some of it was his own making but management should've given him a 1 or 2 year extension and cleared up cap space at the end of his career. Atleast he would have retired a knick.

One reason why big men dominate and win championships is because they can protect the basket against any position. A PG cannot stand in the lane and block shots when the other teams SG who is 3 inches taller than him breaks down the defense. The big men (talented one's) can also score frequently and at ease.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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