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Can we officially name it rebuilding? How long it will take to get back into elite of NBA?
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arkrud
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6/29/2009  10:21 AM
Team has 2 bad contracts on hand with Eddy and Jeffries and working on unloading them...
A bunch of expirings which will be dumped or used to get more assets...
A host of young prospects with uncertain future...
Looks like REAL rebuilding to me.
So how long it will take to get back? 3 years? 4? 6?
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JrZyHuStLa
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6/29/2009  10:26 AM
We'll start contending whenever we get that franchise caliber player.
Marv
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6/29/2009  10:29 AM
best case scenario - only 1 more year.

use lee and nate to dump jeffries and curry.

develop chandler, gallinari, hill and douglas.

sign major free agent(s) in 2010.

spend whatever it takes at that point to augment that roster.

voila
AnubisADL
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6/29/2009  10:44 AM
Knicks are currently in a lose lose situation.

If guys like Duhon, Milicic, and Hughes actually play well we cant afford to resign them. If they stink we still only have Hill, Gallo, and Chandler under contract.

You cant depend in Eddy coming in 2 seasons straight in shape.

I'd try to move guys in deals like the recent Crawford trade where you get garbage and a so-so young prospect. Worse case you got cheap bench players for 2010.
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
6/29/2009  11:08 AM
Back into the elite? Back? We're not going to be back into anything. We haven't been 'elite' since the championship years; the 90s were an over-achieving group of ruffians that somehow made it to playoff contention and into the finals through scrappiness and were backed by an invicible aura of the Garden crowd.

And we've been rebuilding since '99. We, as a fan base, must release these notions of superiority, of 'elitness', and see the Knicks club as it is-- a bottom-tier NBA franchise that is, unfortuantely, embedded in a deep City basketball culture of which it can never meet the expectations Of.

How long 'til we're back in the playoffs, is the question. That is good enough for now, the dreams of 'elitness' have to be put on the back burner, indefinitely.

I'll settle for a consistent playoff team in the mean-time, so I have someone to root for come end of season.



[Edited by - orangeblobman on 06-29-2009 11:13 AM]
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
franco12
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6/29/2009  11:30 AM
I think we're 4-6 years out from even realistically being in a position to aim to be elite.

If Lebron comes here in 2010, and I don't think he will, that changes things.

But my worry is the focus on 2010 may hurt us long term, just like the win now moves of Isiah & Layden.
Cosmic
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6/29/2009  11:35 AM
Rebuilding is a two part process.
First you have to tear down the mess - which is what we did all last year - and will continue to do this summer and all of next season.

The tear down process will largely be completed by July 1st, 2010 - when all those expirings finally expire and we renounce their rights. In that time we've dumped Zach and Crawford for Harrington and Hughes. Those two players were not acquired to be a part of the future they were acquired for financial relief.

Then, is part two, which begins the summer of 2010, which is where you start adding serious pieces to the roster who are actually meant to be here to be a part of the future.

From the Fall of 2010 and beyond is where you add smaller pieces to complete your team but to me that isn't really a part of the rebuilding process that is just business as usual for any NBA team.

It is astounding how many fans are either impatient or just do not understand what this overall process really entails.

1) Tear down the undesirables and gain financial flexibility. (ongoing, to the summer of 2010)

2) Use that new found financial flexibility, and the clean slate roster gained by doing so, to begin building the team from the ground up. (This begins the summer of 2010).

This is why those mumbling about how bad our team is - and wondering what we can add to it to make the playoffs this year - just don't seem to understand the big picture because it is a TWO PART PROCESS.

You have to clean before you can cook and that's what Donnie is doing.

Isiah never bothered to clean first and that's why the meal was always tainted.

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orangeblobman
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Nauru
6/29/2009  11:36 AM
This franchise is heavily burdened with the expectations of being 'THE MECCA'. This is a burden that will haunt the entire club for its entire existance.

My hope was that DW and MDA could come in here and restore some common sense, something down to earth. But it seems that the black hole that is THE MECCA is far too strong for even them.

The upcoming seasons seem promising, but this dark cloud will always hang, always get in the way of our championship dreams.
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
arkrud
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6/29/2009  12:04 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Rebuilding is a two part process.
First you have to tear down the mess - which is what we did all last year - and will continue to do this summer and all of next season.

The tear down process will largely be completed by July 1st, 2010 - when all those expirings finally expire and we renounce their rights. In that time we've dumped Zach and Crawford for Harrington and Hughes. Those two players were not acquired to be a part of the future they were acquired for financial relief.

Then, is part two, which begins the summer of 2010, which is where you start adding serious pieces to the roster who are actually meant to be here to be a part of the future.

From the Fall of 2010 and beyond is where you add smaller pieces to complete your team but to me that isn't really a part of the rebuilding process that is just business as usual for any NBA team.

It is astounding how many fans are either impatient or just do not understand what this overall process really entails.

1) Tear down the undesirables and gain financial flexibility. (ongoing, to the summer of 2010)

2) Use that new found financial flexibility, and the clean slate roster gained by doing so, to begin building the team from the ground up. (This begins the summer of 2010).

This is why those mumbling about how bad our team is - and wondering what we can add to it to make the playoffs this year - just don't seem to understand the big picture because it is a TWO PART PROCESS.

You have to clean before you can cook and that's what Donnie is doing.

Isiah never bothered to clean first and that's why the meal was always tainted.

The misunderstanding of the value of systematic everyday work is not just applied to BBAL.
It is the thing that we all as American society need to overcome to get back to be the most dynamic and successful culture of the world.
Success in not growing on the trees and American dream is only exists for those who know how to work hard to get their piece.
Mecca or not - we have a lot of work to be done and this will take a while.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
AnubisADL
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6/29/2009  12:20 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Rebuilding is a two part process.
First you have to tear down the mess - which is what we did all last year - and will continue to do this summer and all of next season.

The tear down process will largely be completed by July 1st, 2010 - when all those expirings finally expire and we renounce their rights. In that time we've dumped Zach and Crawford for Harrington and Hughes. Those two players were not acquired to be a part of the future they were acquired for financial relief.

Then, is part two, which begins the summer of 2010, which is where you start adding serious pieces to the roster who are actually meant to be here to be a part of the future.

From the Fall of 2010 and beyond is where you add smaller pieces to complete your team but to me that isn't really a part of the rebuilding process that is just business as usual for any NBA team.

It is astounding how many fans are either impatient or just do not understand what this overall process really entails.

1) Tear down the undesirables and gain financial flexibility. (ongoing, to the summer of 2010)

2) Use that new found financial flexibility, and the clean slate roster gained by doing so, to begin building the team from the ground up. (This begins the summer of 2010).

This is why those mumbling about how bad our team is - and wondering what we can add to it to make the playoffs this year - just don't seem to understand the big picture because it is a TWO PART PROCESS.

You have to clean before you can cook and that's what Donnie is doing.

Isiah never bothered to clean first and that's why the meal was always tainted.

The problem with thinking like that is you assume Walsh and company aren't going to blow the cap space on 2nd or 3rd tier talent.

Selling this dream of 2010 puts pressure on them to have some semblance of a team able to compete in 2010 anything less will be considered failure.

Walsh took the remodeling approach when a wrecking ball should have been used instead.

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martin
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6/29/2009  12:23 PM
Posted by AnubisADL:
Posted by Cosmic:

Rebuilding is a two part process.
First you have to tear down the mess - which is what we did all last year - and will continue to do this summer and all of next season.

The tear down process will largely be completed by July 1st, 2010 - when all those expirings finally expire and we renounce their rights. In that time we've dumped Zach and Crawford for Harrington and Hughes. Those two players were not acquired to be a part of the future they were acquired for financial relief.

Then, is part two, which begins the summer of 2010, which is where you start adding serious pieces to the roster who are actually meant to be here to be a part of the future.

From the Fall of 2010 and beyond is where you add smaller pieces to complete your team but to me that isn't really a part of the rebuilding process that is just business as usual for any NBA team.

It is astounding how many fans are either impatient or just do not understand what this overall process really entails.

1) Tear down the undesirables and gain financial flexibility. (ongoing, to the summer of 2010)

2) Use that new found financial flexibility, and the clean slate roster gained by doing so, to begin building the team from the ground up. (This begins the summer of 2010).

This is why those mumbling about how bad our team is - and wondering what we can add to it to make the playoffs this year - just don't seem to understand the big picture because it is a TWO PART PROCESS.

You have to clean before you can cook and that's what Donnie is doing.

Isiah never bothered to clean first and that's why the meal was always tainted.

The problem with thinking like that is you assume Walsh and company aren't going to blow the cap space on 2nd or 3rd tier talent.

Selling this dream of 2010 puts pressure on them to have some semblance of a team able to compete in 2010 anything less will be considered failure.

Walsh took the remodeling approach when a wrecking ball should have been used instead.

what is the dif between remodeling and wrecking ball? I mean, with the "assets" that Walsh had when he took over, what was he SUPPOSED to do?
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misterearl
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6/29/2009  12:30 PM
Engine Job

Can we talk about rebulding versus a simple overhaul? How is this different from dropping the trasmission and servicing the top end?

By 2011, will the Knicks require a tune up, oil change or a 100,000 mile service?
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AnubisADL
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6/29/2009  12:36 PM
what is the dif between remodeling and wrecking ball? I mean, with the "assets" that Walsh had when he took over, what was he SUPPOSED to do?

- He wanted to get some players so that the Knick could remain competitive instead of getting garbage and a young prospect.

- Decided draft picks were 2 expensive last year when guys like Chalmers and Deandre Jordan were available

- Signed Duhon to a 2 yr MLE deal allowing him to raise his value and screw us in 2010 if he decides to bolt.


Rebuilding teams get high lottery picks. We finished 2nd to last in the weak eastern conference this year. Now some Eastern teams have reloaded and we are set to lose some back court scoring from Robinson.

If you know you don't have a 2010 getting a top pick in 2009 should have been a high priority.

Deals like Mobley are useless if you have no intention of adding 2010 salary.

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nyk4ever
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6/29/2009  12:40 PM
Posted by AnubisADL:
what is the dif between remodeling and wrecking ball? I mean, with the "assets" that Walsh had when he took over, what was he SUPPOSED to do?

- He wanted to get some players so that the Knick could remain competitive instead of getting garbage and a young prospect.

- Decided draft picks were 2 expensive last year when guys like Chalmers and Deandre Jordan were available

- Signed Duhon to a 2 yr MLE deal allowing him to raise his value and screw us in 2010 if he decides to bolt.


Rebuilding teams get high lottery picks. We finished 2nd to last in the weak eastern conference this year. Now some Eastern teams have reloaded and we are set to lose some back court scoring from Robinson.

If you know you don't have a 2010 getting a top pick in 2009 should have been a high priority.

Deals like Mobley are useless if you have no intention of adding 2010 salary.

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Allanfan20
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6/29/2009  12:42 PM
1) How would it be screwing us? He fulfilled his contract. If he leaves, we get another guard. Or perhaps get a guy like Ramon Sessions. If he plays well, we make a run, or we trade him. If he sucks this year, then we only have him for a year.

Not everything we do has to revolve around 2010. We can still build a team.
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misterearl
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6/29/2009  12:48 PM
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EnySpree
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6/29/2009  12:49 PM
10 years of losing miserably...if we ain't rebuilding I don't know what we doing...

Trust this suckas...2010 we are getting a free agent best believe...it might not be Lebron but it will be somebody good...Aside from that Gallo might be a 20 pt scorer by then. Jordan Hill might become KG lite, Darko might be better than Lebron finally, and Wilson will probably be good enough to have his sneakers sell in the stores nationwide.
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martin
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6/29/2009  12:50 PM
Posted by AnubisADL:
what is the dif between remodeling and wrecking ball? I mean, with the "assets" that Walsh had when he took over, what was he SUPPOSED to do?

- He wanted to get some players so that the Knick could remain competitive instead of getting garbage and a young prospect.

you are going to have to be more specific. The Knicks traded Zbo and Crawford last year. Which teams were going to give up a young prospect and expirings for those guys?
- Decided draft picks were 2 expensive last year when guys like Chalmers and Deandre Jordan were available

Walsh tried to get Chalmers but another team beat them to it.
- Signed Duhon to a 2 yr MLE deal allowing him to raise his value and screw us in 2010 if he decides to bolt.

Hello... you think Duhon is a better prospect than having cap space in 2010? And you also want to sign Duhon, a career backup, to more than a 2 year deal?
Rebuilding teams get high lottery picks. We finished 2nd to last in the weak eastern conference this year. Now some Eastern teams have reloaded and we are set to lose some back court scoring from Robinson.

If you know you don't have a 2010 getting a top pick in 2009 should have been a high priority.

Teams like the LAC, ALT have floundered for years cause all they do is draft high, and it really doesn't work. With young talent you need vets to show them how to play and grow, etc. What you are advocating is that Walsh is not rebuilding to YOUR specs of what rebuilding is. I think Walsh is certainly rebuilding.
Deals like Mobley are useless if you have no intention of adding 2010 salary.

what the hell does this mean? Mobley allowed up to get rid of Zbo, who was not in our plans, and now allows the Knicks to add salary in 2010.

Also, I would note that Walsh has repeatedly said that he WOULD add salary to 2010 prior to that year if a good enough deal came around.
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AnubisADL
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6/29/2009  12:52 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

1) How would it be screwing us? He fulfilled his contract. If he leaves, we get another guard. Or perhaps get a guy like Ramon Sessions. If he plays well, we make a run, or we trade him. If he sucks this year, then we only have him for a year.

Not everything we do has to revolve around 2010. We can still build a team.

If he sucks we gave a gaping to hole to fill. I would have preferred a cheap 3 year deal like the one Orlando was offering. This way we get his bird rights. Worse case he would have been a backup like he was in Chicago.

Since we over payed I doubt he will entertain a paycut. Remember plenty of teams will have cap space and wont be able to get guys they want. In 2010 we dont have a MLE. So do you really want Duhon eating 5-6 million is valuable cap space?
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nyk4ever
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6/29/2009  1:01 PM
Posted by AnubisADL:
Posted by Allanfan20:

1) How would it be screwing us? He fulfilled his contract. If he leaves, we get another guard. Or perhaps get a guy like Ramon Sessions. If he plays well, we make a run, or we trade him. If he sucks this year, then we only have him for a year.

Not everything we do has to revolve around 2010. We can still build a team.

If he sucks we gave a gaping to hole to fill. I would have preferred a cheap 3 year deal like the one Orlando was offering. This way we get his bird rights. Worse case he would have been a backup like he was in Chicago.

Since we over payed I doubt he will entertain a paycut. Remember plenty of teams will have cap space and wont be able to get guys they want. In 2010 we dont have a MLE. So do you really want Duhon eating 5-6 million is valuable cap space?

This team is not resigning Duhon - get real.
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Can we officially name it rebuilding? How long it will take to get back into elite of NBA?

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