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Chris Sheridan: Walsh could have had pick 5 for Hughes and Chandler
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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:29 PM
In hindsight, the Knicks had some huge regrets Friday. Two weeks ago, they were convinced Rubio would be off the board at No. 5, leading them to turn down a deal that would have sent Larry Hughes and Chandler to Washington for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Oleksiy Pecherov and the No. 5 pick (New York would not have surrendered the eighth pick in that trade), and Washington ended up getting Miller and Foye for the pick.

the rest of the article is worth reading but this is just maddening.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4290401



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KNICKSdom
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6/26/2009  4:31 PM
You mean we could have had Rubio and Derozan?
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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:31 PM
seriously how do you turn down that trade?

pick 5: Ricky Rubio

pick 8: Jordan Hill

knicks are instantly rebuilt at the cost of shrinking violet wilson chandler. HOW DO YOU TURN THAT DOWN?
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TMS
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6/26/2009  4:31 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
In hindsight, the Knicks had some huge regrets Friday. Two weeks ago, they were convinced Rubio would be off the board at No. 5, leading them to turn down a deal that would have sent Larry Hughes and Chandler to Washington for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Oleksiy Pecherov and the No. 5 pick (New York would not have surrendered the eighth pick in that trade), and Washington ended up getting Miller and Foye for the pick.

the rest of the article is worth reading but this is just maddening.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4290401

if that rumor is true then i agree, it is pretty maddening... & i liked the Hill pick... but if there was a chance to come out of this with both Rubio & Hill for the price of Wilson Chandler & Larry Hughes, then Donnie definitely missed the boat... but who knows how much truth there is to that rumor & what exactly where the pieces being discussed between the 2 parties? as it is if Donnie can swing a trade for Rubio using Mobley's contract & Chandler then in effect he accomplishes the same anyway.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2009 1:32 PM]
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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:36 PM
even if they thought rubio would be off the board - you get stephen curry and you get jordan hill/terrence williams.

i was willing to give donnie benefit of the doubt last year, but this is a pretty clear example of two guys who we desperately needed being available at the cost of what, our 4th leading scorer who disappears in the clutch? there is such a thing as being too patient in some of these things and i think donnie is showing that. you take the 5th pick if you can get it - if you wait to see if Rubio falls to 5 of course the cost of the pick is going to skyrocket.
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Finestrg
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6/26/2009  4:38 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by crzymdups:
In hindsight, the Knicks had some huge regrets Friday. Two weeks ago, they were convinced Rubio would be off the board at No. 5, leading them to turn down a deal that would have sent Larry Hughes and Chandler to Washington for Etan Thomas, Mike James, Oleksiy Pecherov and the No. 5 pick (New York would not have surrendered the eighth pick in that trade), and Washington ended up getting Miller and Foye for the pick.

the rest of the article is worth reading but this is just maddening.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4290401

if that rumor is true then i agree, it is pretty maddening... & i liked the Hill pick... but if there was a chance to come out of this with both Rubio & Hill for the price of Wilson Chandler & Larry Hughes, then Donnie definitely missed the boat... but who knows how much truth there is to that rumor & what exactly where the pieces being discussed between the 2 parties? as it is if Donnie can swing a trade for Rubio using Mobley's contract & Chandler then in effect he accomplishes the same anyway.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-26-2009 1:32 PM]

Agreed. Maddening indeed. And what this little blurb tells me is that they were only prepared to do this for Rubio not Curry - all the more maddening for me. It would've been worth it for Curry as well.
crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:40 PM
i will forgive donnie everything if he can orchestrate a rubio trade this summer - and i think he might be able to. though stuff like this does not give me hope.

we need a guy like rubio. seriously. if we even want a chance at lebron or even bosh, we need a rubio here making things exciting and looking like we have any kind of future. wilson chandler is not going to do it. jordan hill is not going to do it, though they may be servicable players who can help a team win - they are not game changing stars. rubio is a game changer at 18yrs old. we need him. donnie, go get him.
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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:41 PM
and i will say that donnie making a very public stance of saying he will ask about rubio is a clear message from donnie to the rubio camp - "we want you ricky." that is a good move by donnie. that helps. let's see what happens.
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TMS
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6/26/2009  4:42 PM
i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.
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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:43 PM
Posted by TMS:

i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.

curry is gone to us forever. poor kid is stuck in golden state's madhouse.

but i agree - donnie gets a benefit of the doubt on rubio. let's see what he can do.
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Knicksfan
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6/26/2009  4:45 PM
I wouldn't put too much weight on this yet. Its so easy to write this note now after the draft and considering some of the names have been reported to be offered. But that deal may not be as simple and no-brainer as he suggest. Walsh has said he considered moving up but the price was too high. That deal doesn't seem high so its probably just one of the many rumors that will be floating out there for the next few weeks.

Still, the Knicks are still in play for Rubio as things will Minnesota seem to be deteriorating by the second.


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crzymdups
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6/26/2009  4:49 PM
the really frustrating thing to me about the rubio situation is that rubio was pretty CLEARLY trying to orchestrate himself to the knicks through the whole draft process. he got "sick" in sacramento. he didn't meet with memphis. he met oklahoma in LA. i don't believe he worked out for anyone but sacramento privately.

why weren't the knicks more clued in to the possibility he could drop to 5? it seemed very very likely once the kings cooled on him.

i just really think donnie didn't handle this well. and even if their target was curry - how do you turn down a curry for chandler swap? you don't. i'm sorry but you don't. and that's what was on the table from washington. okay, time to take a walk outside. pah.
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Finestrg
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6/26/2009  4:52 PM
Posted by TMS:

i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.

If the Amar'e deal does go south like it's been reported maybe sending David Lee to GS might be something that makes sense for both clubs. With all of their scorers, a Biedrins/Lee combo. could be a real nice defensive/rebounding combo. at the 5 & 4 for them. Lee's no Amar'e but he's not Ronny Turiaf either. Lee could really help balance the Warriors' roster and make that a much more complete team. Lee went for 16 & 11 last year and doesn't need the ball everytime down to be effective like a lot of their players. Lee did have his best game of the year against GS - a monster game against them at the Garden. They know exactly what he can do. The cost: Stephen Curry along with filler that makes sense and keeps with our original plan of shedding salary. I kinda like this actually..

[Edited by - finestrg on 06-26-2009 5:03 PM]
Paladin55
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6/26/2009  4:55 PM
Posted by TMS:

i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.

Maybe they are part of a 3 way with Minny and another team? Which teams have been rumored to have an interest in Lee or Nate, and which of them has a SG who Minny would like? What other players, from us, might we have to give up (Hill? Chandler?), and what other assets do we have which another team might want (Mobley?)

Did Portland show an interest in Nate? Lee? What about Cleveland?

Its summertime for teachers and hopefully the Knicks will make my vacation a little more enjoyable with some deals.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Paladin55
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6/26/2009  5:01 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by TMS:

i'm gonna give Donnie a benefit of the doubt to see if he can work out a deal for Rubio or Curry this offseason somehow... unless he's got some bigger plan in place for Lee & Nate in S&T's... obviously if all we end up with is Jordan Hill & Toney Douglas out of this offseason while we watch Lee & Nate walk for nothing, then he will be deserving of plenty of criticism... at least he'll be getting it from me.

If the Amar'e deal does go south like it's been reported maybe sending David Lee to GS might be something that makes sense for both clubs. With all of their scorers, a Biedrins/Lee combo. could be a real nice defensive/rebounding combo. at the 5 & 4 for them. Lee's no Amar'e but he's not Ronny Turiaf either. Lee could really help balance the Warriors' roster and make that a much more complete team. Lee went for 16 & 11 last year and doesn't need the ball everytime down to be effective like a lot of their players. Lee did have his best game of the year against GS - a moster game against them at the Garden. They know what he can do. The cost: Stephen Curry. I kinda like this..

[Edited by - finestrg on 06-26-2009 4:54 PM]

Is Anthony Randolph their future 3, or is he a 4?? One thing about Lee on GS, he would have Randolph and Biedrins to be there for the shotblocking duties a good PF usually contributes to his team. Randolph seems to be growing into a PF, though, so how does that complicate things- I don't think he will end up at SF.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
Markji
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6/26/2009  5:12 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

the really frustrating thing to me about the rubio situation is that rubio was pretty CLEARLY trying to orchestrate himself to the knicks through the whole draft process. he got "sick" in sacramento. he didn't meet with memphis. he met oklahoma in LA. i don't believe he worked out for anyone but sacramento privately.

why weren't the knicks more clued in to the possibility he could drop to 5? it seemed very very likely once the kings cooled on him.

i just really think donnie didn't handle this well. and even if their target was curry - how do you turn down a curry for chandler swap? you don't. i'm sorry but you don't. and that's what was on the table from washington. okay, time to take a walk outside. pah.
In all of the mock drafts I saw, Rubio was picked before #5, so it would be hard for Walsh to know that he would be available at #5.

The option of trading Lee (or Nate +) for either Rubio or Curry makes even more sense if we can keep Chandler.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
Bippity10
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6/26/2009  5:17 PM
Is it possible that Walsh thinks Chandler would have a bigger impact than Rubio and just didn't want to trade him?
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Finestrg
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6/26/2009  5:24 PM
Couple of quick questions - just looking over the Warriors' roster - (1) how long until Speedy Claxton can be traded again? 30 days I think right? (2) How much is Curry set to make this coming year being drafted #7?


[Edited by - finestrg on 06-26-2009 5:58 PM]
crzymdups
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6/26/2009  5:27 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Is it possible that Walsh thinks Chandler would have a bigger impact than Rubio and just didn't want to trade him?

i think it's quite possible that they thought rubio was too young and not ready for next year when they have to be ready to go with a championship level team for bron, or at least an attractive team for bron.

that still doesn't explain/excuse why donnie would turn down basically a trade of wilson chandler for stephen curry.

do you think if we called golden state right now and offered wilson chandler for stephen curry they would listen for two seconds? i doubt it.

curry supposedly helps the bron cause. not sure what the logic was here. if you can give yourself a chance to get rubio and basically a lock to get curry.... you do it.
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Markji
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6/26/2009  5:30 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Is it possible that Walsh thinks Chandler would have a bigger impact than Rubio and just didn't want to trade him?
I think he didn't want to gamble on trading Chandler without a guarantee of getting Rubio.

Also, since we have 2 RFA who he wants to trade due to salary cap, this may be the best way to go. Sign and trade Lee or Nate. Chandler is a good piece to have to help entice a superstar to sign with us. Remember, they may want to come to NY but they also will come if they feel they can win. We don't have many pieces (or didn't before this draft)to put a winning team together. Chandler is a known quantity. A very good young player who is expected to get even better.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
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