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MDA's system
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knicks1248
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6/16/2009  12:11 PM
There isn't a player on earth that can not play in his system, or that does not want to play in his system if given an opportunity. The entire olympic roster raved about it, as well as the coaching staff. is a must to say this person would thrive if he came here just because he could run, jump, and shoot. I thought those where basic attributes. According to Mike D anyone can thrive, why is it so note worthy to say it when talking about a particular player
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nixluva
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6/16/2009  12:39 PM
Well there's actually a bit more to it than run, jump and shoot. Really PASSING is the biggest thing in my opinion. Players with a knack for passing really make the system work, cuz if they're reluctant to share the ball or don't pass accurately then the whole thing breaks down. You've also got to have good hands and a solid BB IQ to really get the most out of the system. This is why Nash became an MVP playing in it. He's a perfect example of the MDA player.

In fact Nash was so good at it, that he was allowed to dominate the ball cuz he would more often than not make the right decision. this cut down on TO's and improved the teams efficiency. Partly because he was a 50% shooter at the PG position. This is a KILLER stat. You just couldn't ignore him. That would lead to open shots all day as the defense was preoccupied with where Nash was and what he was doing. Nash didn't need blazing speed, he would just play at a fast pace so that the defense couldn't just settle in and get comfortable. Run thru a zillion picks and soon enough a player would be open and zip! There goes the pass.

We of course need great shooters and finishers to go along with a PG who can not only pass but shoot well enough to be a constant threat. Curry is the closest thing to that in this draft. Flynn and maybe Jrue also. I have some doubts about Jennings, but skill wise he could do it.


newyorknewyork
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6/16/2009  12:41 PM
This was one of the reasons why D'Antoni was brought in the first place. He has a system that attracts other players.

Walsh had his eyes on 2010, and figured if he could bring in a guy like D'Antoni who players love playing for, who could attract star players then that would be a huge step for 2010.

In my eyes D'Antoni was brought in to do one specific job. Build up players value so that we could make trades and unload dead weight as well as maximizing the value of guys like Crawford, Lee, Nate etc. Make the Knicks exciting and competitive through his system, need playoff games though so it looks like we are up and coming. After that is accomplished then we will be in a position of strength to try and make necessary steps into turning us into a championship contender.

Being viewed as an up and coming exciting team, with a coach and system that everyone wants to play for. Then by 2010-2011 when our cap situation is all cleaned up, we would be in a position to form a championship contender.
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knicks1248
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6/16/2009  12:50 PM
If he's turning avg players into all stars base on the system what sense does it make to look for anyone other then a defensive specialist.
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nixluva
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6/16/2009  1:13 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

If he's turning avg players into all stars base on the system what sense does it make to look for anyone other then a defensive specialist.

We don't currently have the roster set with the right players. We aren't at the point where we can say OK all we need is a defensive specialist to round out this great roster of two way players. I think Walsh would prefer to find guys that can not only score, but defend. Right now Chan and Gallo are willing and able to defend IMO. Gallo was much better than advertised and that was with a bad back. We all know that Chan can defend and should be better if we ever land a C who can block shots.

Still we don't have a clutch crunchtime player and I would think MDA wants to try and find a floor leader so he has his coach on the floor and a guy that can control the team on the floor. Duhon is not that guy, so naturally he's gonna want to find a PG that can assume that role.
TMS
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6/16/2009  2:34 PM
the only guys that can't play in MDA's system are guys that suck.
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knicks1248
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6/16/2009  2:57 PM
Like jj 1 and 2.
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TMS
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6/16/2009  2:59 PM
exactly.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
CrushAlot
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6/17/2009  10:46 PM
I look at MDA's system like the Bills offense in the early 90's when they ran the no huddle. As long as a marquee player is running the offense it will be competitive but it will never win a championship even if all of the pieces are in place. The Knicks are along way from having the pieces.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
McK1
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6/17/2009  11:04 PM
its not even the Bills. At least Marv Levy had the personnel to put together a 12 play 5-6 minute drive and run out the clock in tight games.

I Liken MDA and SSOL to Kevin Gilbride and the run n shoot he ran when he was Oilers OC.
brilliant offensive strategy but just like SSOL, there is no accounting personnel wise or playbook wise for the game clock.

Coughlin taught him how to coach an offense that wins titles ten years later.

Hopefully MDA learns something from Walsh about what wins title before he retires

[Edited by - McK1 on 06-17-2009 11:04 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
CrushAlot
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6/17/2009  11:06 PM
You are right. Those are better comparisons. The Doug Moe comparison is not far off either.
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nixluva
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6/17/2009  11:28 PM
This is all ridiculous! MDA's system is proven to be highly efficient and effective. The only thing that limits it is the presence of enough 2 way players to have a solid defense. This is going to be much easier to make happen when you basically have the chance to build a team the way you want as we're gonna be able to do over the next 2 years.

Go look at how efficient the Suns were under him, that's not a gimmick offense. That's a great offense. MDA never had a great team and still made 2 trips to the WCF's. Nash, Amare & Marion is a really good 3, but not an all world group and the rest of the team was a bunch of castoff role players really. I think we can put a better overall team together with the right moves.
PresIke
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6/17/2009  11:41 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Well there's actually a bit more to it than run, jump and shoot. Really PASSING is the biggest thing in my opinion. Players with a knack for passing really make the system work, cuz if they're reluctant to share the ball or don't pass accurately then the whole thing breaks down. You've also got to have good hands and a solid BB IQ to really get the most out of the system. This is why Nash became an MVP playing in it. He's a perfect example of the MDA player.

In fact Nash was so good at it, that he was allowed to dominate the ball cuz he would more often than not make the right decision. this cut down on TO's and improved the teams efficiency. Partly because he was a 50% shooter at the PG position. This is a KILLER stat. You just couldn't ignore him. That would lead to open shots all day as the defense was preoccupied with where Nash was and what he was doing. Nash didn't need blazing speed, he would just play at a fast pace so that the defense couldn't just settle in and get comfortable. Run thru a zillion picks and soon enough a player would be open and zip! There goes the pass.

We of course need great shooters and finishers to go along with a PG who can not only pass but shoot well enough to be a constant threat. Curry is the closest thing to that in this draft. Flynn and maybe Jrue also. I have some doubts about Jennings, but skill wise he could do it.

great points nix.

curry definitely has the potential for this with his lethal shooting ability and excellent court vision.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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6/17/2009  11:56 PM
i think the '99 Knicks are a pretty good example of a team that sees how speed and efficiency on offense can sometimes be connected to not waiting for the defense to set...which the ssol offense is geared towards doing. in other words, it can work if you have enough good defensive players.

and that was not with the kinds of superstar talent they faced against the spurs.

that team succeeded in the playoffs because they had a lot of 2 way players, but looked to use their athleticism, where childs would lead a break with guys like spree and camby flying up the court as soon as the defensive rebound was secured.

interestingly, all three of those players were strong defensively, but none of them were 1st tier superstars.

the "showtime" lakers won championships folks.

how come i don't hear the same gripes about them, when they were a major glamour and style oriented team. the difference was they had a lot of very smart, and immensely talented, hof level players who also committed to D enough to win. even the current lakers won a title with lackadaisical play on D. yet, their best player, kobe, is a great defender, and they had guys like an emergent ariza to help them defensively too.

if you give d'antoini enough of the right players, who are at least interested in trying to play d, i think his system will be an x factor, in terms of winning.

yes, late in games, that style may not work as easily, but we can see that d'antoni isn't married to his system if it doesn't seem to produce the best result. he comes across to me as a very smart guy. add one decent post option and guys who are all able to create and score, and a slow down system of dumping it into the post may not be most necessary.

look at how the lakers won without going to shaq back in the day, because they didn't want him going to the line. they surrounded he and kobe with killer smart playing 3 point shooters, and hustle players, just like the bulls had with jordan and pippen too.

[Edited by - PresIke on 06-17-2009 11:59 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
McK1
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6/18/2009  1:00 AM
unlike Riley and Phil, in the absense of a team that can stop people MDA doesn't even employ "defensive specialists" nor does he believe in winning games at the free throw line even if it his team shooting the free throws. Mike doessn't like the clock to stop. He wants the tempo to remain elevated.

In MDA's 4 years there, Phoenix finished last in free throws attempted twice, 18th and 20th the other two years. (This years Knicks finished 20th)

When Riley won in 06 Mia was 7th in attempts. LAL this past season was 8th, the year prior 5th.

If Curry comes back in shape it'll be interesting to see how MDA employs him. Eddy can cause teams foul problems and Nate can make teams pay for being in the penalty. Can/will MDA adjust SSOL to maximize all offensive options cuz thus far as a coach he hasn't?

the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nixluva
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6/18/2009  3:34 AM
MDA won 60 games and that team wasn't really a 60 win talented team. People blame MDA for not winning it all but forget to take a hard look at the real lack of NBA championship talent on his teams. To me he had no business winning that much with those teams. His system makes a huge diff. Give the man some real talent and I think he'll win a title.

I mean think about it... If Nash is the best player on your team, how good is the talent on that team?
fishmike
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6/18/2009  12:16 PM
its actually a good point. Knicks got off to a very good start with losers like Crawford and Zach putting up big numbers and winning games.
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knicks1248
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6/18/2009  2:09 PM
They maybe losers but they certainly don't lack talent.I believe that his system requires more of a high IQ rather then talent. We don't lack talent we just lack smart players. Its a fast up pace system that requires quick thinking. Our 4 main scorers, Al, Nate, Lee and chandler were boneheads down the stretch of many games. Those guys lack sense not talent, and duhon is not that smart or talented,
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MDA's system

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