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Any love for Derrick Brown in the 2nd Rnd?
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Paladin55
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6/7/2009  12:13 PM
Tweener size (SF/PF)at 6'8+" in shoes, but intriguing physical numbers at the combine. Good wingspan, quickness, and strength, as well as decent vertical numbers.

I have only seen clips of him, and most show his dunking ability, but his shooting from the 3pt line and the foul line improved this season, and the clips I have seen of him shooting jumpers, show me a guy with decent form. I did like an interview I saw of him, where he seemed to have a good perspective on things, including his ability, and that impressed me.

DraftExpress talks positively about his defensive ability, which is a plus. My thoughts about a 2nd Rnd big man have usually been focussed on Gibson or even Pendergraph. Brown seems to be a better athlete than Gibson- is stronger and is a much better jumper. Pendergraph showed some good athleticism in the combine- seemingly indicating that he worked out hard for them- and I have seen him play a number of times (I've also seen Gibson play at least 2 games on TV.), but unlike Brown, you could not see him playing SF as well as PF. (With that said, you could see Gibson, with some additional weight, and Pendergraph, both playing minutes at center, a position that Brown could not play.)

Is this a guy we would think about, or is he someone that would not be a good fit for the Knicks?

Just wondering.
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TMS
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6/7/2009  12:18 PM
have never seen him in any action, but i have seen Taj Gibson in a number of games this year & i'll tell u right now, he'd be a nice pick for us if we nabbed him in the late 1st or early 2nd round... he's not gonna be a star or anything but he can become a very important role player for any team, sorta like a combination of Leon Powe & Chris Anderson... he'll bring leadership & intensity to any team he plays for.
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BRIGGS
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6/7/2009  12:47 PM
To me Pendegraph is a first round pick. He measured 6-10 240 and he has great fundamental playing skills. He doesnt have the wingspan of Gibson[and to me wingspan is the feature that make the shotblocker]

BUT he measures out at everything else better

he was the fastest big in the draft
He was in the top 5 in terms of no step vertical[that really measures your explosion better than a running start--you could probably get 6 different numbers for running verticals] top 5 in maximum vertical he was 26 pounds heavier than Gibson 8 pounds heavier than Hill[and their numbers were very close up and down although Pendergarph was much faster in the sprint with better agility] obviously he was stronger in the bench with more bodyweight. He lead the NCAA in FG% and he also shoots roughly 80% from the line. He has a great mid range jump shot. A solid man to man defender. His speed and size combination along with his skills should = a top 30 pick.

Im a little wary of a 214 pound man going up against guys who weigh 260+ Pendegraph could be a 6-10 245 pound PF--the same weight and size as Horace Grant. Gibson is 24-in June-I don't see the true possibility of him adding 20 pounds of muscle at his age--maybe at 18 not 24--
Derrick Brown is a different position player--he ultimately plays SF and we are kind of stacked there.
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Finestrg
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6/9/2009  12:46 AM
Posted by TMS:

have never seen him in any action, but i have seen Taj Gibson in a number of games this year & i'll tell u right now, he'd be a nice pick for us if we nabbed him in the late 1st or early 2nd round... he's not gonna be a star or anything but he can become a very important role player for any team, sorta like a combination of Leon Powe & Chris Anderson... he'll bring leadership & intensity to any team he plays for.

Abso-F'in-lutely! Well said. And I like the Powe/Andersen hybrid comparison btw. I always pictured a Drew Gooden-type impact for Gibson in the NBA (Taj is a little lighter but with a little more agility & spring and better defensive skills. There's a lot of varibles to consider such as playing time etc., but I think Gibson could be even better than Gooden eventually) but part Powe, part Andersen is pretty accurate. I don't hate Pendergraph by any means (he's big and far from a stiff, plus the fact that he graduated with a 4-year degree a whole year early impresses me - most of these kids couldn't care less about going to class let alone getting a degree, just getting to the NBA - you know this kid busted his ass in the classroom as well as on the basketball floor and that's rare), but in the end of the day, I just like what Gibson brings to the table more than what Pendergraph offers, esp. for us. Gibson played for a coach, with players & in a system at USC that failed to maximize his full potential but he was still very effective regardless. He had a very solid college career but I think he could be an even better pro.

[Edited by - finestrg on 06-09-2009 01:51 AM]
Finestrg
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6/9/2009  1:50 AM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by TMS:

have never seen him in any action, but i have seen Taj Gibson in a number of games this year & i'll tell u right now, he'd be a nice pick for us if we nabbed him in the late 1st or early 2nd round... he's not gonna be a star or anything but he can become a very important role player for any team, sorta like a combination of Leon Powe & Chris Anderson... he'll bring leadership & intensity to any team he plays for.

Abso-F'in-lutely! Well said. And I like the Powe/Andersen hybrid comparison btw. I always pictured a Drew Gooden-type impact for Gibson in the NBA (Taj is a little lighter but with a little more agility & spring - There's a lot of varibles to consider such as playing time etc., but I think Gibson could be even better than Gooden eventually) but part Powe, part Andersen is pretty accurate. I don't hate Pendergraph by any means (he's big and far from a stiff, plus the fact that he graduated with a 4-year degree a whole year early impresses me - most of these kids couldn't care less about going to class let alone getting a degree, just getting to the NBA - you know this kid busted his ass in the classroom as well as on the basketball floor and that's rare), but in the end of the day, I just like what Gibson brings to the table more than what Pendergraph offers, esp. for us. Gibson played for a coach, with players & in a system at USC that failed to maximize his full potential but he was still very effective regardless. He had a very solid college career but I think he could be an even better pro.

[Edited by - finestrg on 06-09-2009 12:50 AM]

While it's hard to really come to conclusions based on 6-min. youtube clips, here's some telling footage from the PAC-10 tourney last season - championship game, USC vs. ASU. Look at Pendergraph & Gibson side by side here and compare skill level and impact. Pendergraph plays hard and actually had a better overall statistical game that night from what I remember but Gibson had the much greater impact in this game when it counted most. Blocked 2 shots while challenging every single shot in close at the goal (all Sun devil misses). That cover and block on Harden on the iso. was AWESOME. I remember watching this live - to me, that was the game right there. Just an incredible defensive stop on their best player - similar to the recovery & block Hedo Turkoglu had on Kobe last night late. An even better play than that - Kobe actually got by Turkoglu and had him beat before Turk stopped him from behind, Gibson stayed in front of Harden the whole time... Plus, throughout the clip, did it look like Pendergraph with his extra 25 lbs. was pushing Gibson around out there? Hardly. Look closely at the few times Pendergraph was attempting to block out Gibson on the back end of USC FT attempts. Gibson fought his way right in close to put himself in position for offensive rebounds every time - pushing right through Pendergraph. On the other end, on ASU FT attempts where Gibson held the inside position on the release, Pendergraph never even battled Gibson for rebounds and it proved costly - Harden did miss a huge FT late.. Shoot-happy guys like Hackett and Lewis hit some big shots for Southern Cal. down the stretch but the Trojans don't even come close to winning this game w/o Gibson's hard work and intangibles out there. Bottom line...



[Edited by - finestrg on 06-09-2009 04:48 AM]
TMS
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6/9/2009  3:35 AM
couldn't agree more Finest... i watched that entire game very closely cuz i wanted to see how Harden would perform against Derozan after being outplayed the first 2 go arounds, & this game just made up my mind that Derozan was the top SG in this draft... him & Gibson were the 2 guys that clearly stood out in this game, Derozan on offense & Gibson on defense... Harden was crap in the biggest game of the season for both teams & both Derozan & Gibson stepped up bigtime... that's what winning players do... Taj is the type of role player that all very good teams seem to have... would love to nab that guy w/an extra pick if we can get our hands on one.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2009 12:38 AM]
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Finestrg
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6/9/2009  4:49 AM
Posted by TMS:

couldn't agree more Finest... i watched that entire game very closely cuz i wanted to see how Harden would perform against Derozan after being outplayed the first 2 go arounds, & this game just made up my mind that Derozan was the top SG in this draft... him & Gibson were the 2 guys that clearly stood out in this game, Derozan on offense & Gibson on defense... Harden was crap in the biggest game of the season for both teams & both Derozan & Gibson stepped up bigtime... that's what winning players do... Taj is the type of role player that all very good teams seem to have... would love to nab that guy w/an extra pick if we can get our hands on one.

[Edited by - TMS on 06-09-2009 12:38 AM]

Absolutely. Definitely the way to go. After Blair goes anywhere from 10-15, I think Gibson's the best big left on the board in this draft. He's 1st round material all the way..

[Edited by - finestrg on 06-09-2009 04:53 AM]
BRIGGS
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6/9/2009  5:20 AM
Head to head 3 games Pendegraph vs Gibson this year

stats

Taj Gibson

3 games 37.3min 9.9 points 7.1 rebounds 3.1 blocked shots fg% 50

Jeff Pendegraph

3 games 32.1 min 14.3 points 8.3 rebounds 1 block FG% 70.1

Combine head to head

Despite being 26 pounds heavier Pendegraph is quite a bit faster and more athletic. Gibson makes up for some of that with his wingspan[which is why he is a good shot blocker on the college level] Neither one of these guys are what I would consider NBA C although at 6-10 240 Pendegraph can probably hold his own against guys a bit better.
Pendegraph is also nearly 2 years younger--you can see him putting on 5-7 pounds of muscle without it effecting his athletic ability. Gibson who will be 24 has a frame that doesnt look like it will hold much more weight.

I think they are both in the same class--a lower level 1 prospect. If it was me I would go with the bigger player despite Gibson's shot blocking on the college level that I don't think will translate to well at the NBA level. I think Pendegraph is fundamentally superior and that quick jump ability reminds me a bit of Kenyon Martin.

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Paladin55
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6/9/2009  9:15 AM
I did not realize Gibson was that old- turns 24 in a couple of weeks.

I was surprised in a positive way at Pendergraph's combine athleticism, and in a negative way with Gibson's.

In the games I saw him play at the end of the year Pendergraph did not seem to have many ways of finishing at the basket other than dunking the ball. His midrange jumper is pretty good, though. You have to think that someone at the NBA level can teach him a few go to moves in the post, though, and for a guy who will be in the trenches and picking up fouls, his FT% is pretty good.

If we can only acquire one pick in the 2nd RD, and Green and a guy like Pendergraph or Gibson are available, what would the Knicks do?

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purple012870
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6/9/2009  10:25 AM
1. Josh Heyfelt - 6'11" good athlete, skilled - reminds me of Jeff Foster, I can see him giving excellent/energetic minutes off the bench, especially in an up tempo system
2. Goran Suton - 6'10" wide body - athletically challenged but a strong as an ox rebounder who has a great bball IQ, is very experienced & is a terrific shooter....lets say we're matching up vs. the Magic, though he isn't half the athlete Howard is, I can imagine him in spot duty using a handful of fouls w/ physical play, plus his shooting to possibly draw Howard away from the hoop. Also a fine passer. Again, I am not trying to overstate him as a prospect, but I think he may be a useful Mike Doleac type player.
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6/9/2009  11:14 AM
Posted by Paladin55:

I did not realize Gibson was that old- turns 24 in a couple of weeks.

I was surprised in a positive way at Pendergraph's combine athleticism, and in a negative way with Gibson's.

In the games I saw him play at the end of the year Pendergraph did not seem to have many ways of finishing at the basket other than dunking the ball. His midrange jumper is pretty good, though. You have to think that someone at the NBA level can teach him a few go to moves in the post, though, and for a guy who will be in the trenches and picking up fouls, his FT% is pretty good.

If we can only acquire one pick in the 2nd RD, and Green and a guy like Pendergraph or Gibson are available, what would the Knicks do?

If I had my pick of superior player I would take Brown over both of those guys but the problem is we have so many F. But if I was taking best player available I think Brown is the best of the 3 for this style of play
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6/9/2009  12:28 PM
I forget if it was Gibson or Blair, but I think it was Hahn who said (think I read it yesterday or the day before) one of them has what could be very serious arthritis. Don't mean to rain on any parade but that must be weighed into this discussion...
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purple012870
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6/9/2009  12:36 PM
Blair - who has also had an ACL reconstruction on each knee

I see Blair as a more intense Big Baby.
Finestrg
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6/9/2009  1:05 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I forget if it was Gibson or Blair, but I think it was Hahn who said (think I read it yesterday or the day before) one of them has what could be very serious arthritis. Don't mean to rain on any parade but that must be weighed into this discussion...

Wow. Sounds more like Blair with his knee history if anything. I didn't read this, I must've missed it. Anyone else read this? Link??
BRIGGS
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6/9/2009  1:19 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I forget if it was Gibson or Blair, but I think it was Hahn who said (think I read it yesterday or the day before) one of them has what could be very serious arthritis. Don't mean to rain on any parade but that must be weighed into this discussion...

Wow. Sounds more like Blair with his knee history if anything. I didn't read this, I must've missed it. Anyone else read this? Link??

His knee history is well known. I don't see where it hampered his play even a little bit in college. Some teams want to talk guys down
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6/10/2009  9:49 PM
I gotta be honest, I liked Josh Duncan better last year. I think I was the only one on this forum who wanted him on the team and I still do, by the way!

I like Brown's game, but man I think Duncan was a better player.
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Any love for Derrick Brown in the 2nd Rnd?
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