i would agree w you on timmy. prob best power frwrd ever. he gets knocks but i believe that is mainly b/c he plays in a low market. if he were getting the same results in lets say new york over the last 10 or so years, they'd be talking about him non-stop as the best ever.....they dont call him the big fundamental for nothing...

How quickly does LBJ eclipse Bird at SF?

Also, KAJ would barely make my top 5 at C. I'd go Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, KAJ.

The KAJ in the 80s was a one trick pony (the sky hook).

all-time fab five?!?!?!?!? i break out more cheetos for this topic than the alba thread!!

I’m totally with you on timmy d. he is every bit as great and holds up ALMOST as well historically as what you claim.

With one exception.

And you gotta be an old fart to feel this – but the one exception is bob petit, the all-time greatest pf in the history of the nba.

A few highlights:

• in 1955 he won the NBA Rookie of the Year Award after averaging 20.4 points and 13.8 rebounds per game.

• In his second season, Pettit won his first scoring title with a 25.7 average, and led the league in rebounding (1164 for a 16.2 average). He was also named MVP of the 1956 NBA All-Star Game after scoring 20 points with 24 rebounds; he would win subsequent MVP All-Star Game honors in 1958, 1959, and 1962. He also won his first of two NBA regular season MVP awards (the other was in 1959).


• In 1958, Pettit led the Hawks to an NBA Championship, defeating the Bill Russell-led Boston Celtics in the NBA Finals. Pettit put an exclamation point on the Hawks' 110-109 game 6 victory by scoring a then-playoff record of 50 points – including 19 of the last 21.

• Pettit's league leading scoring average of 29.2 points per game in the 1958-59 season was an NBA record at the time, and he was named the Sporting News NBA MVP. In the 1960-61 season, Pettit pulled down 20.3 rebounds per game, making him one of only five players to ever break the 20 rpg barrier. In the following season, he scored a career best 31.1 points per game.

• Pettit ended his career in 1965, becoming the first NBA player to eclipse the 20,000 points mark (20,880 for a 26.4 average). His 12,849 rebounds were second most in league history at the time he retired, and his 16.2 rebounds per game career average remains third only to Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell.


• Pettit was an NBA All-Star in each of his 11 seasons, was named to the All-NBA First Team ten times, and was name to the All-NBA Second Team once. Pettit still holds the top two NBA All-Star Game rebounding performances with 26 in 1958 and 27 in 1962, and has the second highest All-Star Game points per game average with 20.4 (behind only Oscar Robertson). Pettit averaged at least 20 points per game and at least 12 rebounds per game in each of his 11 NBA seasons. No other retired player in NBA history other than Pettit and Alex Groza has averaged more than 20 points per game in every season they've played (note: Michael Jordan averaged exactly 20 points per game in his final season).

• In 1970, he was inducted into the Basketball Hall of Fame.

Posted by crzymdups:

Posted by purple012870:

Who wins?

Magic
Jordan
Bird
Duncan
KAJ

vs.

CP3
Kobe
LBJ
KG
Shaq

In their primes? Magic/Jordan/Bird easily. Duncan in his prime destroyed KG routinely.

No, Duncan's teammates were just superior to KG's.

Yeah, I would like to see a season where Duncan carries his team without any help to really guage him but it never happened. Maybe 03 but Parker, Manu and Jackson made big strides in their career that year. I don't think there has been a season where you can say that Duncan had no help or his team really sucks so bad and how he had to overcome that. KG, Ewing, Barkley, etc. had those problems. When given an equally good team in 03-04, Garnett was the better player and his team had more success than Duncan that year. Go back to last season and you can say the same thing when Garnett was traded to the Celtics.

Posted by purple012870:

How quickly does LBJ eclipse Bird at SF?
Also, KAJ would barely make my top 5 at C. I'd go Hakeem, Shaq, Wilt, Russell, KAJ.
The KAJ in the 80s was a one trick pony (the sky hook).

I'll admit, I'm a bit of a KAJ fanboy with clouded judgement. I ain't mad at that order of centers you got there. (H)Akeem was a beast. But I was thinking of the KAJ of the 70s.

Interestingly enough, Magic, Air, Bird & Hakeem was the 1986-87 All-NBA First Team, with Kevin McHale as the PF.

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by Marv:

Posted by sebstar:

Posted by purple012870:

How quickly does LBJ eclipse Bird at SF?

You're right, he already has. Just create an image in your head of Bird trying to check Lebron.

bird dealt with a lot of monster forwards, form erving to worthy to wilkins to king to dantley to aguirre to barkley, etc., etc. i love lebron. but lebron's not bird. bird's the better player. we'll see where lebron gets later in his career.

No way dude, Lebron is Magic Johnson if Magic were built like a body builder and was a super athlete. Nobody from that era would be able to handle him now. Worthy, Barkley, Aguirre, and Dr. J aren't comparable. Only one was Wilkins who was a ridiculous athlete, but not the overall talent that Lebron is.
Lebron is 23 and already on another level, so yeah as currently constituted I would put LBJ ahead of Bird, easily, in a pure talent vacuum. Now if we are talking about accomplishments and breadth of career then Bird still gets it for now, obviously.

I definitely consider breadth of career, longevity, and championships. And that's why the Hick from French Lick gets the nod from me, even though I was a Dr. J fan. LeBron is a championship away from usurping Larry in my book.

I wont argue with the Bird picks...just know the clock is ticking and its only a matter of time. Not if, but when...