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High draft picks used in later in sign & trade deals during the same summer -- are there any examples of this?
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LivingLegend
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5/21/2009  5:11 PM
I keep hearing about the potential for us to come up with some type of draft night sign and trade agreement where the actual deal is consumated after 7-9-09.

Are there other examples where a team took a kid high in the draft and then packaged him in a sign and trade a few weeks later?
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Pharzeone
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5/21/2009  5:15 PM
ROFL.
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nyk4ever
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5/21/2009  5:16 PM
I can't provide a specific example, but I just know shady dealings go on in the NBA all the time. Phar is right maybe Donnie would never do that, that's fine. I just think if he wanted to, he could.
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Pharzeone
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5/21/2009  5:47 PM
All this talk just reminds me of a favorite cartoon quote of mine. "If Woody had gone straight to the police, this would never have happened!" TMS is right this situation should have been handled before the trading deadline or preseason. You want to know why you aren't aware of a lot of these situations because general managers normally don't allow themselves to be put into these situations.
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orangeblobman
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Nauru
5/22/2009  1:08 AM
shady and evil are two different things sometimes. there is good-shady and bad-shady, this would be good-shady because both teams want to cut a deal and there is no real reason not to do some good-shady stuff, it's like telling a white lie.
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EnySpree
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5/22/2009  2:36 AM
well the Knicks supposedly drafted Nene for Denver to include in the McDyess trade...
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Pharzeone
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5/22/2009  3:20 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

well the Knicks supposedly drafted Nene for Denver to include in the McDyess trade...

He is refering to sign and trade deals involving a draft pick related to the previous season.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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5/22/2009  4:14 AM
our best bet now is to trade Lee or Nate for a pick in 2010 if we can... our chance to use those guys in order to move up in this draft has most likely passed us by
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masud
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5/22/2009  4:42 AM
I think we're keeping Lee and letting Nate walk.
knicksbabyyeah
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5/22/2009  5:19 AM
Uhm, you don't sign and trade draft picks. When you trade a pick before it's been made it has no monetary value, if you trade the player you selected he has the value of the first round pick slot selected even if no contract has been signed yet.

So no need to wait there.

Unless you're thinking about how to sign and trade Lee or Nate to move up, correct? Then

a) you'd have to make a legal verbal agreement with Lee or Nate for the amount you'll sign and trade them for and to where (they have to agree afterall) and make a normal trade taking into account that value
b) wait for the trade to be made official when you may officially sign free agents

it's difficult so probably won't happen (since Lee and Nate aren't max contracts recipients the negotiations will probably be more severe)
Pharzeone
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5/22/2009  6:14 AM
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

Uhm, you don't sign and trade draft picks. When you trade a pick before it's been made it has no monetary value, if you trade the player you selected he has the value of the first round pick slot selected even if no contract has been signed yet.

So no need to wait there.

Unless you're thinking about how to sign and trade Lee or Nate to move up, correct? Then

a) you'd have to make a legal verbal agreement with Lee or Nate for the amount you'll sign and trade them for and to where (they have to agree afterall) and make a normal trade taking into account that value
b) wait for the trade to be made official when you may officially sign free agents

it's difficult so probably won't happen (since Lee and Nate aren't max contracts recipients the negotiations will probably be more severe)

You must have missed it but everyone knows how it is done. The discussion is if it has been done and to provide examples. By the way you failed to mention that such a trade you just mention is illegal according to the CBA and there is a monetary penalty as well future draft penalities, not to mention that you automatically change the status of that free agent from restricted to unrestricted.
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knicksbabyyeah
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5/22/2009  10:56 AM
well I guess you're referring to sign and trading players that are free agents? not sure if they are illegal but they are very difficult to accomplish since

a) how to negotiate when the cap numbers aren't given yet
b) how to negotiate with players before june 30th (or something) the date you can "woo" free agents

Therefor any agreement that doesn't include the free agent as a max contract would be hard to accomplish since you may not negotiate. But would it really be the first time a trade cannot be made official? There's just a short week in between where the other team which selected the pick for you will hold on to that player.

As for the penalty, that penalty was for an off the books additional salary for Joe Smith that circumvented the salary cap. You can make an agreement with the other team to make a future trade and they select the player for you but this is all way to complicated since again, you may not negotiate numbers with the free agent.
LivingLegend
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5/22/2009  10:58 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by knicksbabyyeah:

Uhm, you don't sign and trade draft picks. When you trade a pick before it's been made it has no monetary value, if you trade the player you selected he has the value of the first round pick slot selected even if no contract has been signed yet.

So no need to wait there.

Unless you're thinking about how to sign and trade Lee or Nate to move up, correct? Then

a) you'd have to make a legal verbal agreement with Lee or Nate for the amount you'll sign and trade them for and to where (they have to agree afterall) and make a normal trade taking into account that value
b) wait for the trade to be made official when you may officially sign free agents

it's difficult so probably won't happen (since Lee and Nate aren't max contracts recipients the negotiations will probably be more severe)

You must have missed it but everyone knows how it is done. The discussion is if it has been done and to provide examples. By the way you failed to mention that such a trade you just mention is illegal according to the CBA and there is a monetary penalty as well future draft penalities, not to mention that you automatically change the status of that free agent from restricted to unrestricted.

Right - my point in the initial post is that everyone is talking about all-kinds of whacky after the draft and after 7-9-09 trades that would involve players just drafted. I'm asking for examples of this ever happening before.

Someone mentioned Nene but I think that was a draft night trade -- not a sign and trade deal.

Any examples where the team selects a player (say Rubio at #2) and then 3-4 weeks later moves that new draft pick to another team in order to complete a sign and trade for a veteran player?

I don't think there are many or any examples of this....my point being it isn't going to happen.
JohnWallace44
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5/22/2009  11:07 AM
I think it would be tough the more that I think about it as well.

Rumor is that Rubio is trying to dictate which team he goes to though. That could put an interesting wrinkle into the equation.
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NYKBocker
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5/22/2009  11:28 AM
One example is the S&T between the Magic and Seattle for Rashard Lewis in 07, but the Magic only gave up a 2nd rounder.
TMS
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5/22/2009  5:02 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

I think it would be tough the more that I think about it as well.

Rumor is that Rubio is trying to dictate which team he goes to though. That could put an interesting wrinkle into the equation.

even if Rubio tries to force his way to NY, the only possible way for the Knicks to get him is if we trade up to the top 3 or 4 slots, cuz the difference in rookie scale salary from #2 to #8 is nothing to sneeze at... there's no way he's gonna slip to us where we're slotted to pick if that's what anyone's thinking (not saying you are)... Rubio's already looking at losing a big chunka change w/the buyout as it is.
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Pharzeone
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5/22/2009  5:14 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

One example is the S&T between the Magic and Seattle for Rashard Lewis in 07, but the Magic only gave up a 2nd rounder.

This for an 08 draft pick not a 2007 draft pick if memory serves me. I am not sure about successful ones but I know about attempts. McHale tried to trade 07 pick and was trying to scheme a S&T scenario with Mike James for Iverson after the trading deadline in 07 for a draft day deal but the league warned him about it. Not sure how it got up but Stern is always on top of these things.

Grizzlies tried to do one with the Rockets after they selected Steve Francis and he had voiced his disapproval. As I recall Francis spilled the beans and the league forced the Rockets to change the deal. It was touch and go but Francis made threats about sitting out. But the trade had to be change to not include any free agents.

Isiah tried to do the same thing to move up and get Garnett but no team would even agree and Stern issued some warning to Isiah.

Stern has been gracious as far as penalities but he stopped them all.
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High draft picks used in later in sign & trade deals during the same summer -- are there any examples of this?
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