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Common sense
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BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  12:22 PM
We need a C--we havent had one in 9 years minus Dikembe's short stint. Every year we are crying we missed the big guy. Unless we get pick 1 or 2 I really think we should take Mullens at 8 and look to find a Curry Holiday etc.. falling in the draft. We are perpetually small and I GUARANTEE until we address the size issue we will NOT be good. All of the good teams left have guys who protect the basket --it's an essential part of basketball and one reason why we havent won in 9 years. Mullens is a very good finisher and I believe wouldve been a top 3 pick in the next draft. It's a discount at 8.

The bottom line with this draft--there is flaw all over the place--their are a ton of holes in a lot of these players games. IF I walk out with the 7-1 275 athletic C I feel like I have a high potential player who can help me right now off the bench. You cannot teach size. We cant draft Earl Clark and hope at 6-9 230 that he is going to clog the lane--he wont and we just drafted like 8 SF in a row. We need a brick and mortar draft--a foundation piece at C--we dont have a pick for 2 years and we wont get a shot like this again for awhile--unless of course the possibility is we sck for another 5 years.



We resign Lee unless a deal is too good to be true draft Mullens


That would give us a frontline of

7-1 275 Mullens
6-9 245 Lee
6-10 240 Gallinari
[we would have to find one more athletic 6-10 player--perhaps a vet in FA next year]

We have Harrington and Chandler for wing players--perhaps steve nash as a FA PG and maybe we can buy in and grab a Curry holiday etc.. as a back up long term.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 05-06-2009 12:33 PM]
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DrAlphaeus
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5/6/2009  12:32 PM
I hope a 7'2" Frenchman becomes available.
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nyk4ever
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5/6/2009  12:35 PM
Briggs, I like Mullens, but I don't see the potential in him that you do - I think we have to go BPA with this pick. I think the best case and worst case scenarios with Mullens are 2 vastly different players and I don't think we can F this pick up.

Now if you're telling me that we can get a Tyreke Evans, Brandon Jennings, Demarr Derozan or Stephen Curry at pick 8 (or Rubio at pick 2 ) and then we make a trade to pick up another lotto pick to go for Mullens then I am absolutely all for it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
JohnWallace44
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5/6/2009  12:42 PM
Is he really a shotblocker? I don't know. Wouldn't be a terrible pick, but I'd rather get the guard spots right and get blue collar guys for the pivot for this year.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  12:44 PM
[quote]
Posted by nyk4ever:

--> but I don't see the potential in him that you do -
I hear that every year
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nyk4ever
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5/6/2009  12:46 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

[quote]
Posted by nyk4ever:

--> but I don't see the potential in him that you do -
I hear that every year

Well that's ok lol. No doubt you have an eye for some of these kids, but after having watched Mullens a few times this year, I just didn't see the amount that you do.

Nothing wrong with that, not saying I wouldn't want him, I'd just rather take BPA and then get another pick for Mullens.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
JohnWallace44
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5/6/2009  1:22 PM
Based on NBADraft's preview, which is terrible, I'd look to take Evans or Holiday

1	Sacramento	Blake Griffin	So.
2 Washington Ricky Rubio Intl.
3 LA Clippers Hasheem Thabeet Jr.
4 Oklahoma Cty Jordan Hill Jr.
5 Minnesota James Harden So.
6 Memphis Demar DeRozan Fr.
7 Golden St. Brandon JenningsIntl.
8 New York Earl Clark Jr.
9 Toronto Gerald HendersonJr.
10 Milwaukee Jonny Flynn So.
11 New Jersey Wayne Ellington Jr.
12 Charlotte Chase Budinger Jr.
13 Indiana Stephen Curry Jr.
14 Phoenix James Johnson So.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
NYKBocker
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5/6/2009  1:38 PM
If we are drafting BJ Mullens then you have to trade down and get another 1st round pick. Maybe with Minny and get their 2 late first round picks and one of their 2nd rounders.

Then draft...
18 - C - BJ Mullens
28 - PG - Jrue Holiday
45 - PG/SG - Milenko Tepic - 6'7" Serbian sharp shooter
Paladin55
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5/6/2009  1:40 PM
Mullens is a guy who will have to really impress the Knicks brass in his workout, if we are going to draft him.

Hard to believe that he will go into the workouts without having added a few moves to impress people with.

Is he intelligent enough in terms of understanding the game? Does he have the toughness an NBA center needs? Why wasn't he more of a shot blocker in college, and why did he play so little?

The guy is an amazing athlete, and seems to have some skill, but he plays like a SF in the body of a center.

I can't see the Knicks taking him, but if they saw something special in him in his workout with us, I would not go crazy if we took him.

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nixluva
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5/6/2009  1:41 PM
This draft isn't the "end all, be all" as far as building this team. Why take a lesser talent when you can get the BPA and try to the upgrade the overall talent level of the team. You can't get desperate just cuz the team has been losing for so long. If the big man is there then so be it, but not if he's a risky pick like Mullens.
orangeblobman
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Nauru
5/6/2009  1:42 PM
you cant draft for need you gotta get the best player available
WE AIN'T NOWHERE WITH THIS BUM CHOKER IN CARMELO. GIVE ME STARKS'S 2-21 ANY DAY OVER THIS LACKLUSTER CLUSTEREFF.
JohnWallace44
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5/6/2009  1:50 PM
Holiday is not going 28. That's a joke that some of these sites are projecting him that low.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  4:14 PM
Posted by Paladin55:

Mullens is a guy who will have to really impress the Knicks brass in his workout, if we are going to draft him.

Hard to believe that he will go into the workouts without having added a few moves to impress people with.

Is he intelligent enough in terms of understanding the game? Does he have the toughness an NBA center needs? Why wasn't he more of a shot blocker in college, and why did he play so little?

The guy is an amazing athlete, and seems to have some skill, but he plays like a SF in the body of a center.

I can't see the Knicks taking him, but if they saw something special in him in his workout with us, I would not go crazy if we took him.

Denadre Jordan blocked a lot more shots in his first year in the NBA than he did at Texas AM. Javale Mcgee is also an athletic 7 footer who was drafted much farther back than his talent. 7 footers just come along slower than smaller guys. You have to do some projection with Mullens--there is no doubt about it--you have to SEE what his potential can become. You can see in his HS clips the way he can run the floor--his mid range jump shot his ability to rebound and block shots--his touch inside both soft and tough when needed. You can see the tremendous length.
With a team that is so desperate for an athletic big men--boy I would give him every opportunity to prove it to me.
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Pharzeone
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5/6/2009  4:32 PM
Posted by nixluva:

This draft isn't the "end all, be all" as far as building this team. Why take a lesser talent when you can get the BPA and try to the upgrade the overall talent level of the team. You can't get desperate just cuz the team has been losing for so long. If the big man is there then so be it, but not if he's a risky pick like Mullens.

After last year draft, no pick the Knicks make should be consider risky. A 6'10 player that plays on the perimeter and is void of low post moves on the off chance that he can take guys off the dribble that are smaller and the same size than him and also hope that he can eventually play at the PF spot because he is still "growing" and his body may or may not allow him to put on bulk. Oh yeah, I forgot about how he is going to develop in the post and become a good defender in the post as well as the perimeter because well because he is just special. Yeah that pick wasn't risky.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  4:47 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by nixluva:

This draft isn't the "end all, be all" as far as building this team. Why take a lesser talent when you can get the BPA and try to the upgrade the overall talent level of the team. You can't get desperate just cuz the team has been losing for so long. If the big man is there then so be it, but not if he's a risky pick like Mullens.

After last year draft, no pick the Knicks make should be consider risky. A 6'10 player that plays on the perimeter and is void of low post moves on the off chance that he can take guys off the dribble that are smaller and the same size than him and also hope that he can eventually play at the PF spot because he is still "growing" and his body may or may not allow him to put on bulk. Oh yeah, I forgot about how he is going to develop in the post and become a good defender in the post as well as the perimeter because well because he is just special. Yeah that pick wasn't risky.

Mullens will have less risk there than many other players. If Mullens wants to work hard--he will be good--end of story.
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LivingLegend
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5/6/2009  6:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by nixluva:

This draft isn't the "end all, be all" as far as building this team. Why take a lesser talent when you can get the BPA and try to the upgrade the overall talent level of the team. You can't get desperate just cuz the team has been losing for so long. If the big man is there then so be it, but not if he's a risky pick like Mullens.

After last year draft, no pick the Knicks make should be consider risky. A 6'10 player that plays on the perimeter and is void of low post moves on the off chance that he can take guys off the dribble that are smaller and the same size than him and also hope that he can eventually play at the PF spot because he is still "growing" and his body may or may not allow him to put on bulk. Oh yeah, I forgot about how he is going to develop in the post and become a good defender in the post as well as the perimeter because well because he is just special. Yeah that pick wasn't risky.

Mullens will have less risk there than many other players. If Mullens wants to work hard--he will be good--end of story.


I wouldn't be shocked to see Walsh go with Mullens and if they do I'm not sure I'll be that dissapointed.

I like the more exciting picks like Derozan, Flynn, Curry and Evan's but there is some merit in your argument.

It just seems like we should be able to have our cake and eat it to by grabbing another pick.

The workouts will shift this draft around big time...

Big problem with Mullen's is that he doesn't seem to fit the LEADER mold -- someone like Curry could come in here and with Gallo form a leadership tandem that would be outstanding for us.
rvwink
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5/6/2009  6:19 PM
Common Sense?

Common sense suggests that you avoid focusing only on how athletic a player is, and how badly you need an upgrade at the position he plays. A significant part of your evaluation should be certified on the player's production when he played, how strong his motor is, and how high his basketball IQ is. I feel strongly that Mullen is simply not the right answer for the Knicks this year.


BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  6:58 PM
Posted by rvwink:

Common Sense?

Common sense suggests that you avoid focusing only on how athletic a player is, and how badly you need an upgrade at the position he plays. A significant part of your evaluation should be certified on the player's production when he played, how strong his motor is, and how high his basketball IQ is. I feel strongly that Mullen is simply not the right answer for the Knicks this year.

That's BS--you cant teach size and athleticism and it's pretty rare to have both. You have to use prognostication when evaluating a very young player--simply you do NOT have enough information to make a reasonable evaluation off of 1 year--you have to have the ability to project. What you are saying is Mullens basketball growth stopped at 10 points and 5 rebounds as a freshmen 18 year old and thats not the case. Thats why the NY Knicks cant draft well and they are arrogant enough to let it continue. Thats why we take Gallinaris over Randolphs and Fryes over Bynums

Lets be real--the Knicks organization has been brutal in the draft for a long time with a little saving grace late in the first round.

I like 4 players in this draft where the Knicks are[obviously we are not getting guys 1-7]-- Evans Derozan Mullens and Flynn--lets see how stupid I look in a couple of years. Unfortunately I think it is very possible Evans and Derozan are part of the top 7 That leaves me with Flynn and Mullens
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BRIGGS
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5/6/2009  7:03 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by rvwink:

Common Sense?

Common sense suggests that you avoid focusing only on how athletic a player is, and how badly you need an upgrade at the position he plays. A significant part of your evaluation should be certified on the player's production when he played, how strong his motor is, and how high his basketball IQ is. I feel strongly that Mullen is simply not the right answer for the Knicks this year.

That's BS--you cant teach size and athleticism and it's pretty rare to have both. You have to use prognostication when evaluating a very young player--simply you do NOT have enough information to make a reasonable evaluation off of 1 year--you have to have the ability to project. What you are saying is Mullens basketball growth stopped at 10 points and 5 rebounds as a freshmen 18 year old and thats not the case. Thats why the NY Knicks cant draft well and they are arrogant enough to let it continue. Thats why we take Gallinaris over Randolphs and Fryes over Bynums

Lets be real--the Knicks organization has been brutal in the draft for a long time with a little saving grace late in the first round.

I like 4 players in this draft where the Knicks are[obviously we are not getting guys 1-7]-- Evans Derozan Mullens and Flynn--lets see how stupid I look in a couple of years. Unfortunately I think it is very possible Evans and Derozan are part of the top 7 That leaves me with Flynn and Mullens and size wins out.


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rvwink
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5/6/2009  8:04 PM
There are players that have both size and athleticism, and never fulfill their potential. There are other talents that are also required, and when you look at Mullen's lack of production, I think it is too much of a leap to spend a #8 draft pick on him. I also don't think your calling my post BS is what I would call "good form". Somebody doesn't agree with you and your response is to call their opinion BS? Do you sincerely believe that your opinion the only one with merit?

On the other hand, its really hard to find prospects at #8 that I like this year. I don't like Evans because he has a tendency to need to dominate the ball. I don't like Flynn because his 3 point shooting is at a relatively low percentage. The writeup on Derozan was also not appealing to me either. Too much written about his athletic talents and not enough about his production. But at least you are consistent. I guess if I have to pick someone, I would end up going with Stephen Curry.

"Evans Derozan Mullens and Flynn--lets see how stupid I look in a couple of years."

Unfortunately, how they look in a couple of years, doesn't really prove anything concerning how they would fare on the Knicks. Picking players that will fit in with the Mike D'Antoni system is what is needed.

Common sense

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