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BRIGGS
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5/1/2009  6:29 PM
I know a few names have gone around the last few days but to me the first second and third name that should be on the list is Steve Nash

Maybe he has only 3 solid year left

We pay him the full 5 year MLE for the 34MM on the basis that he will give us 3 years[which is fair value] you give him an option year at 3 if there is a necessity to bump up his pay if he goes the full 5. Still that guaranteeing him 3 years 11+mm paid over 5 and if needed we can bump the pay in year 4 and 5 with the option.


Im sorry but I refuse to sck anymore--get creative Walsh and company
RIP Crushalot😞
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nyballer
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5/1/2009  7:12 PM
I think nash would obviously be a good fit but let's not resort to isiah tactics...5 years full MLE isn't bad but giving him a player option is a bit much. I think the full MLE max years contract is a thing of the past, with every team looking to 2010, strapped for cash, and probably looking for a young player to build around. I say offer him 5 years max MLE with a TEAM option to opt out in 2 or 3 years. If there's anything we should have learned it's that it's all about being flexibile and NOT overpaying. Nothing would be worse than 4 years passing and finding ourselves with large (keep in mind the MLE will be a larger % of the cap assuming the cap is lower) unmovable contracts in the same spot we've been for the past 10 years.

[Edited by - nyballer on 05-01-2009 7:12 PM]
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
BRIGGS
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5/1/2009  7:19 PM
Posted by nyballer:

I think nash would obviously be a good fit but let's not resort to isiah tactics...5 years full MLE isn't bad but giving him a player option is a bit much. I think the full MLE max years contract is a thing of the past, with every team looking to 2010, strapped for cash, and probably looking for a young player to build around. I say offer him 5 years max MLE with a TEAM option to opt out in 2 or 3 years. If there's anything we should have learned it's that it's all about being flexibile and NOT overpaying. Nothing would be worse than 4 years passing and finding ourselves with large (keep in mind the MLE will be a larger % of the cap assuming the cap is lower) unmovable contracts in the same spot we've been for the past 10 years.

[Edited by - nyballer on 05-01-2009 7:12 PM]

what is a player option after year 3 is done--how does that affect the Knicks? if he goes 18-10 the next 3 years and still has 1-2 years left that leaves the door open to pay him a bit more--it makes the MLE attractive for him NOW. If you think that paying Steve with a full MLE is overpaying--I mean come on.--weve already spent millions upon millions fort losing ballplayers and now people are complaining about paying Nash?????
RIP Crushalot😞
nyballer
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5/1/2009  7:32 PM
that's not the right attitude. we've made bad decisions in the past so we shouldn't be opposed to making slightly less bad decisions going forward? sure the player option makes sense assuming he goes 18-10 the next 3 years, but i don't know how likely that is. more likely he goes 18-10 next year and starts fading. by year 3 he could be a backup PG getting played 5.5 MM+. or worse yet he could f up his knee next year (he is old and played a LOT of minutes in an uptempo system), then we are stuck for 35MM for 5 years - nobody will take a broken down PG esp with cap contraction. the player option can only hurt us, the team option can only help us, and i don't think anyone else will give him the max MLE over 5 years with as good of a system fit as us.

we need to start making smarter decisions - the appeal and amount of money we have are useless when we have 0 cap space and can't sign free agents, and have a bunch of old possibly washed up players signed to huge contracts. in this economy the knicks are in the position of power, not the players - and they should act accordingly.

look at our team now - curry with a 10.5MM and 11.276MM player option for the next 2 years. Q rich with a 9MM player option. Harrington with 10MM player option. In 2010 jeffries with a 7MM player option. If these are team options we are so far under the cap we can sign lebron d-wade AND fill out the rest of the roster with good role players. We can sign nate to 4MM per year and lee for 8MM per year over the next few years without sacrificing the chance of getting key free agents. That's 30MM off the cap NEXT year if we didn't give these guys player options and instead had team options, and 20MM in 2010-2011. I'm sure it seemed like jeffries "deserved" a player option after his series against the cavs - I'll admit i even thought he was going to be better than he is. but the knicks have to stop operating out of a position of weakness.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
s3231
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5/1/2009  7:38 PM
Bringing in Nash would be great but the last time I checked, he is not a free agent until after next season. Unless you think the Suns will waive him before the end of June...but the Suns aren't stupid enough to let Nash go without getting anything in return.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
EwingsGlass
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5/1/2009  7:44 PM
We cannot give Nash a 5 year contract.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

I direct your attention to something called the Over 36 Rule. A 35 year old player (Steve Nash, for example,) who signs a 5 year contract will have the contact amounts re-adjusted to allocated the final 2 years over the first 3 years. The contract would be considered to be greater than the MLE in years 1, 2 and 3 and would be denied by the League.

Best we can offer is 3 years at the MLE. Or sign and trade... goold luck convincing Phoenix to gift wrap Nash for us.

Otherwise I agree with your thoughts. Regardless, I think Nash would take the MLE for a 2 or 3 year contract...
You know I gonna spin wit it
BRIGGS
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5/1/2009  7:46 PM
Posted by nyballer:

that's not the right attitude. we've made bad decisions in the past so we shouldn't be opposed to making slightly less bad decisions going forward? sure the player option makes sense assuming he goes 18-10 the next 3 years, but i don't know how likely that is. more likely he goes 18-10 next year and starts fading. by year 3 he could be a backup PG getting played 5.5 MM+. or worse yet he could f up his knee next year (he is old and played a LOT of minutes in an uptempo system), then we are stuck for 35MM for 5 years - nobody will take a broken down PG esp with cap contraction. the player option can only hurt us, the team option can only help us, and i don't think anyone else will give him the max MLE over 5 years with as good of a system fit as us.

we need to start making smarter decisions - the appeal and amount of money we have are useless when we have 0 cap space and can't sign free agents, and have a bunch of old possibly washed up players signed to huge contracts. in this economy the knicks are in the position of power, not the players - and they should act accordingly.

look at our team now - curry with a 10.5MM and 11.276MM player option for the next 2 years. Q rich with a 9MM player option. Harrington with 10MM player option. In 2010 jeffries with a 7MM player option. If these are team options we are so far under the cap we can sign lebron d-wade AND fill out the rest of the roster with good role players. We can sign nate to 4MM per year and lee for 8MM per year over the next few years without sacrificing the chance of getting key free agents. That's 30MM off the cap NEXT year if we didn't give these guys player options and instead had team options, and 20MM in 2010-2011. I'm sure it seemed like jeffries "deserved" a player option after his series against the cavs - I'll admit i even thought he was going to be better than he is. but the knicks have to stop operating out of a position of weakness.

Yes but what Im trying to say is he is worth the 35mm over 3 NOW--giving him the full MLE pays him that over 5. Throwing in a player option is nothing other than givng more incentive to Steve. Im already concluding the 5 years contract is really 3--thats his fair value--if he gives us a solid 3 years of service and he decides he s done--so be it.
RIP Crushalot😞
nyballer
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5/1/2009  8:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyballer:

that's not the right attitude. we've made bad decisions in the past so we shouldn't be opposed to making slightly less bad decisions going forward? sure the player option makes sense assuming he goes 18-10 the next 3 years, but i don't know how likely that is. more likely he goes 18-10 next year and starts fading. by year 3 he could be a backup PG getting played 5.5 MM+. or worse yet he could f up his knee next year (he is old and played a LOT of minutes in an uptempo system), then we are stuck for 35MM for 5 years - nobody will take a broken down PG esp with cap contraction. the player option can only hurt us, the team option can only help us, and i don't think anyone else will give him the max MLE over 5 years with as good of a system fit as us.

we need to start making smarter decisions - the appeal and amount of money we have are useless when we have 0 cap space and can't sign free agents, and have a bunch of old possibly washed up players signed to huge contracts. in this economy the knicks are in the position of power, not the players - and they should act accordingly.

look at our team now - curry with a 10.5MM and 11.276MM player option for the next 2 years. Q rich with a 9MM player option. Harrington with 10MM player option. In 2010 jeffries with a 7MM player option. If these are team options we are so far under the cap we can sign lebron d-wade AND fill out the rest of the roster with good role players. We can sign nate to 4MM per year and lee for 8MM per year over the next few years without sacrificing the chance of getting key free agents. That's 30MM off the cap NEXT year if we didn't give these guys player options and instead had team options, and 20MM in 2010-2011. I'm sure it seemed like jeffries "deserved" a player option after his series against the cavs - I'll admit i even thought he was going to be better than he is. but the knicks have to stop operating out of a position of weakness.

Yes but what Im trying to say is he is worth the 35mm over 3 NOW--giving him the full MLE pays him that over 5. Throwing in a player option is nothing other than givng more incentive to Steve. Im already concluding the 5 years contract is really 3--thats his fair value--if he gives us a solid 3 years of service and he decides he s done--so be it.

i see what you are saying, but a) i don't think he'll get anything close to 35MM over 3 - it doesn't matter what he's worth, it's about what he'll get paid and he won't get paid 35MM over 3 years. b) he isn't the player to get this team over the hump - maybe he'll get us in the playoffs. but you are tying up 5 years of cap space to make the playoffs maybe for 2 years. 3 mediocre years and 2 years of cap space tied up afterwards doesn't seem worth it. 3 mediocre years and then a chance to cut our losses if it doesnt work? I think that's how we should be operating from now on.
"easy like sunday morning..." - walt clyde
CrushAlot
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5/2/2009  12:12 AM
I don't think there is anyway Nash signs for the MLE in NY this year. He is still a star and should command more of a contract than that. If the Knicks let Lee go I think Frye is a sleeper for the MLE for one year. Even in this economy guys like Nash are not going to sign for the MLE.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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5/2/2009  5:17 AM
word
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Ira
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5/2/2009  6:28 AM
I liked the idea in another thread about using the mle for the backup big man from Orlando.
EwingsGlass
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5/3/2009  6:52 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I don't think there is anyway Nash signs for the MLE in NY this year. He is still a star and should command more of a contract than that. If the Knicks let Lee go I think Frye is a sleeper for the MLE for one year. Even in this economy guys like Nash are not going to sign for the MLE.

I think Frye is more of an LLE player. He has not accomplished anything yet.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Bonn1997
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5/3/2009  9:09 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I don't think there is anyway Nash signs for the MLE in NY this year. He is still a star and should command more of a contract than that. If the Knicks let Lee go I think Frye is a sleeper for the MLE for one year. Even in this economy guys like Nash are not going to sign for the MLE.

I think Frye is more of an LLE player. He has not accomplished anything yet.
He is an LLE player from whom I hope we stay away
EwingsGlass
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5/3/2009  10:29 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I don't think there is anyway Nash signs for the MLE in NY this year. He is still a star and should command more of a contract than that. If the Knicks let Lee go I think Frye is a sleeper for the MLE for one year. Even in this economy guys like Nash are not going to sign for the MLE.

I think Frye is more of an LLE player. He has not accomplished anything yet.
He is an LLE player from whom I hope we stay away

You wouldn't let him have a roster spot at 1.8M? He's soft, but he can hit the 18ft jump shot. I would take a flyer on him with the LLE.
You know I gonna spin wit it
Bonn1997
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5/4/2009  2:19 PM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by CrushAlot:

I don't think there is anyway Nash signs for the MLE in NY this year. He is still a star and should command more of a contract than that. If the Knicks let Lee go I think Frye is a sleeper for the MLE for one year. Even in this economy guys like Nash are not going to sign for the MLE.

I think Frye is more of an LLE player. He has not accomplished anything yet.
He is an LLE player from whom I hope we stay away

You wouldn't let him have a roster spot at 1.8M? He's soft, but he can hit the 18ft jump shot. I would take a flyer on him with the LLE.
For one year, yes I'd take him. I wouldn't want to guarantee him any money for the following year, though, when we need max cap space.
TMS
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5/4/2009  2:32 PM
i'd rather sign Von freakin' Wafer than Channing Frye... he's a powderpuff player... don't want him at any price.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
RonRon
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5/6/2009  5:17 AM
i have to say Birdman.

We can use his energy, hustle, and SHOTBLOCKING
Ira
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5/6/2009  8:15 AM
A while back, someone suggested using part of the MLE on the backup big man for Orlando. I think that would be a good move.
purple012870
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5/6/2009  11:32 AM
If Rubio isn't an option, then Ramon Sessions.
EwingsGlass
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5/6/2009  11:42 AM
Posted by purple012870:

If Rubio isn't an option, then Ramon Sessions.

Because Sessions is an RFA, I highly doubt Milwaukee let's him walk.
You know I gonna spin wit it
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