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If Trevor Ariza (311) and Tyrus Thomas (225) Took At Least Three Years To Blossom, How Long Will It Take Gallinari and Chandler?
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misterearl
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4/20/2009  12:03 PM
Fasten your seat belts. The Knicks have at least one more year or wandering in the non-playoffs wilderness.

If 2009-2010 is a year of incremental growth (fingers crossed) the win total could hover around the 7 game improvement of this season and that equals 37.

Barring a miracle transaction from the desk of Donnie Walsh, and with the knowledge that each and every other franchise looks to improve, the 37 win range is both pragmatic, mathematic and damn near automatic.

The addition of one starter, preferably an upgrade (not a sidegrade) at center, is a step in the right direction.

The addition of a second new starter as an upgrade, preferably at lead guard, would be a minor miracle.

2011 is the year. Better sit tight.
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EnySpree
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4/20/2009  12:22 PM
Wilson is already a good player and better than Ariza imho. So maybe in 3 more years Ariza can aspire to be more like Chandler.

Right now Wilson is a starter, and Gallo is already a rotational guy.....that's a given. Now will Wilson take the next step into the relm of a joe johnson? Granger? Or will he just top off the same way Marvin Williams and goons like him have?

Gallo got his feet wet already and if he comes back healthy the Knicks will have their sniper back...he'll have the confidence, so it will be interesting to see if he can become wilson chandler next year.

Now knicks need a point guard and a center definately....as I always say....its easy to say what we need....its harder to say who we need and how do we get them.
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misterearl
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4/20/2009  12:32 PM
The point being that The Mayor and The Artist Formerly Known as Rooster are the only two players The Answer Man feels good about as future starters. Chandler for his versatility, humility and malleability. Gallinari for his zeal, ability to wheel and deal and his... international appeal.

Those two. Period.

I watched the Atlanta Hawks in person last night and as much as their young talent gets props, it STILL has a fatal flaw in the frontcourt beyond Al Horford.

The Knicks think big in adding complimentary players to a cohesive whole. But it won't be just size that matters. A premium MUST be placed on the ability to learn. That extends to rookies, free agents and veterans. New Yorkers will have less patience next season as the renovations to MSG will add to the ticket pricing in the same way Yankee Stadium and CitiField are priced in the ridiculous ranges.

Fewer people will pay increased prices to see a lottery team and Walsh knows this.

Should be an interesting off season.





[Edited by - misterearl on 04-20-2009 12:45 PM]
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misterearl
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4/20/2009  12:45 PM
EnySpree - the comparison between the career experience of Ariza and Chandler was based on their developmental timeline, not on who is the better player.

The issue was brought up to compare the relative time it took Ariza to get comfortable and find his voice... and the theory that Chandler's best is still year(s) down the road.

In three years, if Chandler works as hard as it appears he will, I expect a more polished skill set that will make Knicks fans proud. The same goes for Danilo.
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sebstar
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4/20/2009  1:13 PM
its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
VDesai
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4/20/2009  1:15 PM
I hope Wilson Chandler eventually turns into a Danny Granger type of player. I believe he has that sort of skill set. Consistency on his J and shot selection are his major issues right now. I believe he is steadily improving in all other facets of the game.

Next year will be Gallo's real rookie year, just as this was Chandlers. He played even less than Chandler is in his first year. I want to see him play more confidently with the ball in his hands and be more agressive at finding shots in the paint. If he builds some strength this offseason he will be better defensively as well. I saw good instincts and activity from him- he seems to be aware and plays agressively. He just needs more experience with NBA speed and the strength to anchor against bigger players.
Marv
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4/20/2009  1:15 PM
Posted by sebstar:

its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.

i think it's totally reasonable to hold out 2 huge question marks about the rooster's:

1. health
2. game translating to the nba

i am hoping like hell we get a positive answer on both these questions. and obviously, without #1, #2 becomes moot.
Paladin55
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4/20/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by sebstar:

its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.

I like Gallinari a lot more than most people, and was happy to see him drafted, but at this point, questions about his back overwhelm any questions about his talent and eventual success in the NBA.

Nevertheless, you cannot make your second statement without qualifying what you say. The word "will" is not appropriate at this point in time. "Could" might be a better choice until we know how successful his operation was.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-20-2009 1:27 PM]
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misterearl
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4/20/2009  1:36 PM
Marv and Palladin - if you are in Donnie Walsh's seat do you:

A. Remain optimistic the operation was a success, the healing will be complete and Gallinari can step into the rotation next season, and save him a spot ... or...

B. ... Forget Gallinari in in 2009-10... draft as if he were on injured reserve until 2011 (Remember, it took Bernard TWO years to come back from his knee and spinal cords are tricky things)

If Chandler slides to off guard, as it feels like D'Antoni likes his skill set in that position,,, the entire Knicks frontcourt must be replaced, starting with center and then to power forward, the two most difficult spots to fill.

Three's are a dime a dozen.

I miss Ume Udoka and Matt Barnes.
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sebstar
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4/20/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by sebstar:

its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.

I like Gallinari a lot more than most people, and was happy to see him drafted, but at this point, questions about his back overwhelm any questions about his talent and eventual success in the NBA.

Nevertheless, you cannot make your second statement without qualifying what you say. The word "will" is not appropriate at this point in time. "Could" might be a better choice until we know how successful his operation was.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-20-2009 1:27 PM]

I meant to express it in a conditional sense, I see what you're saying. But as of right now, the signs arent good. I'm willing to wait it out and hold out hope, tho.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Pharzeone
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4/20/2009  3:22 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by sebstar:

its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.

I like Gallinari a lot more than most people, and was happy to see him drafted, but at this point, questions about his back overwhelm any questions about his talent and eventual success in the NBA.

Nevertheless, you cannot make your second statement without qualifying what you say. The word "will" is not appropriate at this point in time. "Could" might be a better choice until we know how successful his operation was.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-20-2009 1:27 PM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the surgery was to relieve his pain not correct his back issue. I'm going back to what Gallinari stated back in September that his back is "this way" and it is something he has to learn to deal with. The problem was that the pain didn't really decrease as the disc began to recede. I took that to mean that he has a delicate back. Meaning that his pain can return to him if the disc once again begins to bulge over the season or significant wear and tear.
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crzymdups
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4/20/2009  5:17 PM
still can't believe we gave away Ariza for nothing. and Balkman.

Ariza is a completely different player than Chandler. Chandler may wind up the better player in the end, but Ariza sure would look nice in this system.
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Paladin55
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4/20/2009  6:16 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by sebstar:

its not Gallo's talent that I'm questioning at this point, its his back. Doesn't matter how good he is, that back of his will stop him cold.

I like Gallinari a lot more than most people, and was happy to see him drafted, but at this point, questions about his back overwhelm any questions about his talent and eventual success in the NBA.

Nevertheless, you cannot make your second statement without qualifying what you say. The word "will" is not appropriate at this point in time. "Could" might be a better choice until we know how successful his operation was.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-20-2009 1:27 PM]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the surgery was to relieve his pain not correct his back issue. I'm going back to what Gallinari stated back in September that his back is "this way" and it is something he has to learn to deal with. The problem was that the pain didn't really decrease as the disc began to recede. I took that to mean that he has a delicate back. Meaning that his pain can return to him if the disc once again begins to bulge over the season or significant wear and tear.
I honestly don't have enough knowledge to speculate on the specifics- I only pick up what I read. There is always the possibility that we are not being told everything. My understanding was that MRI tests during the season showed healing taking place, but Gallinari indicated he was still in pain. I assume that the disc issue was aggravated by the bone that was shaved. Doesn't the disc bulge go down on its own over time? Perhaps the process was slowed by the fact that they were playing him and bulging disc was being aggravated by the bone? I just don't know.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 04-20-2009 6:41 PM]
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Paladin55
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4/20/2009  6:37 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Marv and Palladin - if you are in Donnie Walsh's seat do you:

A. Remain optimistic the operation was a success, the healing will be complete and Gallinari can step into the rotation next season, and save him a spot ... or...

B. ... Forget Gallinari in in 2009-10... draft as if he were on injured reserve until 2011 (Remember, it took Bernard TWO years to come back from his knee and spinal cords are tricky things)

If Chandler slides to off guard, as it feels like D'Antoni likes his skill set in that position,,, the entire Knicks frontcourt must be replaced, starting with center and then to power forward, the two most difficult spots to fill.

Three's are a dime a dozen.

I miss Ume Udoka and Matt Barnes.
Not many good front court players in this draft- if you are picking the BPA at slot #8, I would assume that you are looking at a PG or SG, a player who would not compete with Gallinari. If we are lotto'd into the #1 or 2 slots, I personally, hope we take Rubio, and not Griffin. At this point, with the guy I really wanted- Evan Turner- is going back to OSU, I am rooting for DeRozan, and then T. Evans, unless I hear that some other player has been superimpressive in tryouts with the Knicks.

You have to go by what the doctors say and how Gallinari seems to respond. He seemed honest in terms of describing the pain he experienced as his back issue progressed. You play him based on performance- hopefully get a good year to see how he progresses, and then, at the end of the 09-10 season, you use his body of work and the condition of his back to make future decisions.
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
djsunyc
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4/20/2009  7:27 PM
ariza looks good as the 5th fiddle behind kobe + gasol + odom + fisher. all he's asked to do is gamble on defense and use his athleticism. on many other teams, he will be relied upon to do more and he probably will let them down. good for ariza landing in the perfect situation for him. but i don't think he's that big a loss for the knicks.
holfresh
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4/20/2009  7:49 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

ariza looks good as the 5th fiddle behind kobe + gasol + odom + fisher. all he's asked to do is gamble on defense and use his athleticism. on many other teams, he will be relied upon to do more and he probably will let them down. good for ariza landing in the perfect situation for him. but i don't think he's that big a loss for the knicks.

Exactly...I love Ariza but he is a niche player,like our entire roster...DLee, Nate,and Chandler are all niche players...They can be good pieces a certain situations...They aren't anyting to build around...Chandler has to most upside and can grow but that still remains to be seen...We need legitimate players to build around through the draft...And I'm not talking about 6' 10" three point shooting forwards...
misterearl
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4/20/2009  8:20 PM
Niche Players

holfresh - from your keyboard to the lexicon of Kung Fu basketball masters

If your theory holds true, Donnis Walsh is scouring his speed dial numbers for friendly General Managers with problemmatic (talented) veterans on their hands.

Was Kurt Thomas a niche player?
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Paladin55
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4/20/2009  8:53 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by djsunyc:

ariza looks good as the 5th fiddle behind kobe + gasol + odom + fisher. all he's asked to do is gamble on defense and use his athleticism. on many other teams, he will be relied upon to do more and he probably will let them down. good for ariza landing in the perfect situation for him. but i don't think he's that big a loss for the knicks.

Exactly...I love Ariza but he is a niche player,like our entire roster...DLee, Nate,and Chandler are all niche players...They can be good pieces a certain situations...They aren't anyting to build around...Chandler has to most upside and can grow but that still remains to be seen...We need legitimate players to build around through the draft...And I'm not talking about 6' 10" three point shooting forwards...
He was not drafted as a 6'10" 3 pt shooter- based on his Euro-pro career he was drafted as a complete player who could do a lot of things well- a "legitimate player" as you call them. I would think that you would want to wait before classifying him as a one dimensional tall guy. You do understand that players need time to develop, and in Gallinari's case, his initial development was cut short by his back.

You need to have patience with young players and how you evaluate them- especially those who are injured and cannot show people everything they are capable of doing.

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
misterearl
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4/21/2009  7:52 AM
I still contend that 6'11.5 Donatas Motiejunas, out of Lithuania, will be the Knicks frontcourt target.

Extreme Knicks Makeover 2011 Edition

1. Rubio or Cabezas, I don't care which one, with Stevie Nash as mentor)

2. Chandler

3. Gallinari

4. Motiejunas

5. (Bosh)
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kingofelpaso
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4/21/2009  12:13 PM
Im intreagued by Moniejunas too, but I dont see that happening for some reason. Maybe if the Knicks can get another pick to use on someone who might be a bit of a project.

But if you pick him up, I dont think Bosh works at the 5. You'd need a bigger stronger player to defend the paint. Bosh is a good defender but isnt a defensive stopper like a Dwight Howard (just as an example). What I've read about Motiejunas is that he is not a particularly strong defender. As nice as it might be for 's offense, I dont think you can get anywhere with defensive frong line of Gallinari, Montie-something something, and Bosh.

I'd be worried that Chandler would still lead the team in blocks....
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If Trevor Ariza (311) and Tyrus Thomas (225) Took At Least Three Years To Blossom, How Long Will It Take Gallinari and Chandler?
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