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why are there no tough players in the league anymore like oakley?
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Caseloads
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4/12/2009  3:17 PM
why are there no tough players in the league anymore like oakley?

where have all the tough guys gone?
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BRIGGS
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4/12/2009  4:16 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

why are there no tough players in the league anymore like oakley?

where have all the tough guys gone?

I think Blair might be a bit of a throw back. I think If I was NJ I would be going after him to play PF and ridding myself of YI. There has to be more YI sckers--they could probably get a nice seconday pick for him.
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sebstar
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4/12/2009  4:49 PM
Because the league discourages that kind of play. Tough and hard nosed are now considered thug behavior in the increasing corporate environment of the NBA
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
TMS
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4/12/2009  4:54 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Because the league discourages that kind of play. Tough and hard nosed are now considered thug behavior in the increasing corporate environment of the NBA

exactly... the things they used to get away with in Oakman's days will get you into early foul trouble or in the most extreme cases even earn you a game suspension in some cases now... the NBA has moved away from the tough guy style of basketball & trying to promote a more finesse style of play with ball movement & offensive scoring.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
PresIke
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4/12/2009  5:25 PM
Posted by sebstar:

Because the league discourages that kind of play. Tough and hard nosed are now considered thug behavior in the increasing corporate environment of the NBA

ding ding ding

it's about selling the league, and for average fans watching teams like the late 80s pistons, 90s knicks and heat are just not going to cut it, unless you are specifically a fan of those teams.

that, to me, is why a lot of us romanticize such style, because we were knick fans. but to average nba followers they hated watching the knicks play because it was boring to them.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:27 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:28 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Caseloads
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4/12/2009  5:35 PM
shouldnt wilcox be this type of enforcer player?
OasisBU
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4/12/2009  5:37 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by sebstar:

Because the league discourages that kind of play. Tough and hard nosed are now considered thug behavior in the increasing corporate environment of the NBA

ding ding ding

it's about selling the league, and for average fans watching teams like the late 80s pistons, 90s knicks and heat are just not going to cut it, unless you are specifically a fan of those teams.

that, to me, is why a lot of us romanticize such style, because we were knick fans. but to average nba followers they hated watching the knicks play because it was boring to them.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:27 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:28 PM]

Not to mention that was the last time the Knicks were any good :-)
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Pharzeone
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4/12/2009  5:57 PM
Posted by PresIke:
Posted by sebstar:

Because the league discourages that kind of play. Tough and hard nosed are now considered thug behavior in the increasing corporate environment of the NBA

ding ding ding

it's about selling the league, and for average fans watching teams like the late 80s pistons, 90s knicks and heat are just not going to cut it, unless you are specifically a fan of those teams.

that, to me, is why a lot of us romanticize such style, because we were knick fans. but to average nba followers they hated watching the knicks play because it was boring to them.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:27 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 5:28 PM]

Stern was livid at the Houston Knicks final ratings and Knick team of the 90s. The Derek Harper rule after the 94 Finals was just the beginning, upgrading flagrant fouls as well. I think Stern used the Knicks as an excuse of why ratings dropped in the NBA.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
djsunyc
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4/12/2009  6:29 PM
the nba product is absolutely terrible. it takes a back seat to football and serves as a very bland appetizer to baseball. it's basically unwatchable at this point.
Pharzeone
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4/12/2009  6:32 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the nba product is absolutely terrible. it takes a back seat to football and serves as a very bland appetizer to baseball. it's basically unwatchable at this point.

Baseball used to be my favorite. Now I find myself sleeping during games. I can only spend so much energy watching guys scratch themselves between action. Bring back the steroids.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
PresIke
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4/12/2009  8:15 PM
yeah, baseball is far less interesting to me than the nba. i can't even watch games anymore at all.

the nba has some issues, but its long term viability is definitely better than baseball, which is bound to continue to lose popularity.

the nba remains america's most sellable sport internationally, which allows it to have far more markets to sell itself to than baseball which is strictly a game that only apeals to north america and its former "colonies."



[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:15 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
djsunyc
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4/12/2009  8:20 PM
Posted by PresIke:

yeah, baseball is far less interesting to me than the nba. i can't even watch games anymore at all.

the nba has some issues, but its long term viability is definitely better than baseball, which is bound to continue to lose popularity.

the nba remains america's most sellable sport internationally, which allows it to have far more markets to sell itself to than baseball which is strictly a game that only apeals to north america and its former "colonies."



[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:15 PM]

i disagree. nba is based 100% on stars and their marketability. ratings keep going down all over the place. meanwhile, baseball ratings are up big time, new stadiums are being built everywhere and attendance is up everywhere. baseball is making money despite the steroid era and the nba has been in a downwards funk ever since jordan left in 1998. there isn't another jordan out there to save the sport. lebron may get there but until he starts winning titles, it won't happen. baseball is a lifestyle in central/south america and japan/korea. now with the WBC, it is starting to expand into europe.
Pharzeone
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4/12/2009  8:23 PM
The NFL is currently my favorite but they are kidding themselves if they think people outside the United States even cares. NFL Euro is a joke. Every foreigner always yells to me that ain't real football. They can't even sell out games in Mexico.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
SupremeCommander
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4/12/2009  8:23 PM
I think Al Horford is the closest thing there is in the league to a throwback enforcer... but how common are bruising rebounders with a 20' jumper? There have been a fair amount of punishing rebounders since Oak, but very few who could stay on the court in the final two minutes of a game
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BRIGGS
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4/12/2009  8:26 PM
Either David Lee or Lee's agent is very stupid. The guy is staring 50-60mm in the face--there is no doubt he hurt that knee last game--yes he had a good game but he was hurt late in the game--why would you risk a basket full of cash on the last two games? Are you out of your mind?
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PresIke
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4/12/2009  8:41 PM
sorry su, baseball is not going to increase in its appeal around the world by much. basketball is far more popular worldwide than baseball.

the wbc?

you and i may like it, and it helps, but it's small time compared to the fiba championships.

baseball has been in decline for years man.

we're seeing this thing from an american perspective. go abroad to most nations not influence by the u.s. in terms of historical imperialism and ask if anyone gives two cares about baseball. i guarantee you most people might at least know who lebron james is or wade or like basketball at least a little bit.

baseball? they won't care at all.

you think folks care about the netherlands in the wbc there? most people could care less.

baseball is a slow and boring game to most people who are not raised on it culturally.

that's why it's kept.

new stadiums are not an indicator of anything. in fact, baseball teams like the yankees may be hurting themselves with their new stadiums costing so much. there was an article in the times about that today, in fact.

have you been abroad much? because there is zero indication from my own experience of baseball growing significantly at all, while many people in other nations around the world play and like to watch basketball.

is there a euro league for baseball like there is for basketball?

all of the countries you listed for baseball are de facto former american "colonies" btw.

korea and japan are major speheres of influence from the u.s. since WWII.

you say south america, but the biggest south american nations, brazil and argentina don't give to cares about baseball, but they do basketball. soccer fans tend to like basketball, but loathe baseball. it's just fact, and most of the world places soccer #1 as a sport. panama and venezuela, if you check the history, have had major american involvement for over 100 years.

sure, there some nations in central and south america and the caribbean play baseball, but most don't, and prefer soccer by far. cuba and puerto rico, yeah, but those are former or current american colonies dude. the nethlands team seemed to be made up of mostly curacaoians, but countries that play and enjoy baseball are in a significant minority around the world. it's just statistical fact.

the evidence has been for years that baseball is generally a sport in decline in the u.s., while basketball has grown internationally more so. go check the articles out there. hockey has suffered as well, as we all know.

it is actually the fact that the nba is based on stars that has helped it's branding. sure for hardcore fans this upsets some, but it was via the 1992 dream team that basketball spread like wildfire internationally, via the stars that played.

hockey and baseball suffer because they lack the individual stars to sell, and their sports just can't appeal to a wide enough audience, due to weather and cultural reasons.

basketball is the closest sport we have to soccer, is popular worldwide, and very urban (of which most of the world is by far). you need huge space to play baseball, other than stickball which you neve see anyone play anymore.

go around nyc these days and you will also notice A LOT of new soccer pitches rather than baseball fields. kids do not list baseball as their favorite sport as much, and soccer is growing and taking support from baseball. for african-americans baseball has lost a huge support group, while growing and maintaining with some latinos, and a few asians, but other than that they have no other markets to target outside of the u.s. influenced places.

whatever you may feel about the game, regardless, this is just the trend that has been ongoing for maybe 15 or more years.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:41 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:42 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:43 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
firefly
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4/12/2009  8:57 PM
Posted by PresIke:

sorry su, baseball is not going to increase in its appeal around the world by much. basketball is far more popular worldwide than baseball.

the wbc?

you and i may like it, and it helps, but it's small time compared to the fiba championships.

baseball has been in decline for years man.

we're seeing this thing from an american perspective. go abroad to most nations not influence by the u.s. in terms of historical imperialism and ask if anyone gives two cares about baseball. i guarantee you most people might at least know who lebron james is or wade or like basketball at least a little bit.

baseball? they won't care at all.

you think folks care about the netherlands in the wbc there? most people could care less.

baseball is a slow and boring game to most people who are not raised on it culturally.

that's why it's kept.

new stadiums are not an indicator of anything. in fact, baseball teams like the yankees may be hurting themselves with their new stadiums costing so much. there was an article in the times about that today, in fact.

have you been abroad much? because there is zero indication from my own experience of baseball growing significantly at all, while many people in other nations around the world play and like to watch basketball.

is there a euro league for baseball like there is for basketball?

all of the countries you listed for baseball are de facto former american "colonies" btw.

korea and japan are major speheres of influence from the u.s. since WWII.

you say south america, but the biggest south american nations, brazil and argentina don't give to cares about baseball, but they do basketball. soccer fans tend to like basketball, but loathe baseball. it's just fact, and most of the world places soccer #1 as a sport. panama and venezuela, if you check the history, have had major american involvement for over 100 years.

sure, there some nations in central and south america and the caribbean play baseball, but most don't, and prefer soccer by far. cuba and puerto rico, yeah, but those are former or current american colonies dude. the nethlands team seemed to be made up of mostly curacaoians, but countries that play and enjoy baseball are in a significant minority around the world. it's just statistical fact.

the evidence has been for years that baseball is generally a sport in decline in the u.s., while basketball has grown internationally more so. go check the articles out there. hockey has suffered as well, as we all know.

it is actually the fact that the nba is based on stars that has helped it's branding. sure for hardcore fans this upsets some, but it was via the 1992 dream team that basketball spread like wildfire internationally, via the stars that played.

hockey and baseball suffer because they lack the individual stars to sell, and their sports just can't appeal to a wide enough audience, due to weather and cultural reasons.

basketball is the closest sport we have to soccer, is popular worldwide, and very urban (of which most of the world is by far). you need huge space to play baseball, other than stickball which you neve see anyone play anymore.

go around nyc these days and you will also notice A LOT of new soccer pitches rather than baseball fields. kids do not list baseball as their favorite sport as much, and soccer is growing and taking support from baseball. for african-americans baseball has lost a huge support group, while growing and maintaining with some latinos, and a few asians, but other than that they have no other markets to target outside of the u.s. influenced places.

whatever you may feel about the game, regardless, this is just the trend that has been ongoing for maybe 15 or more years.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:41 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:42 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-12-2009 8:43 PM]

yep
Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not?
arkrud
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4/12/2009  9:16 PM
Talking about participation Soccer in #4 and bbal is #2, trailing only to Volleyball
baseball and Football are not even close to... dragon Bote racing...


Sport 2002 Estimates of Participants Worldwide Number of Affiliated National Federations

Volleyball 998 Million 218

Basketball 400 Million 211

Table Tennis 300 Million 186

Soccer 242 Million 204

Badminton 200 Million 147

Tennis 60 Million 191

Baseball 60 Million 110

Dragon Boat Racing 50 Million 51

Team Handball 18 Million 147

Hockey 3 million 118

Judo 2.5 Million 187

Rugby 2 Million 97

Cycling 600,000 160



[Edited by - arkrud on 04-12-2009 9:18 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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4/12/2009  9:21 PM
Popularity by fans... well bbal is only #10.
10 Soccer fans for 1 bbal...
And interestingly amount of players equal to amount on fans


1) Soccer. 3.3-3.5 Billion Fans. (Europe, Africa, Asia, Americas,etc)
2) Cricket 2-3. Billion Fans. (India,U.K,Pakistan,Asia,Australia,etc)
3) Field Hockey. 2-2.2 Bilion Fans. (Asia, Europe, Africa, Australia)
4) Tennis. Around 1 Billion Fans. (Europe, Americas, Asia)
5) Volleyball Around 900 Million Fans. (Asia, Erope, Americas, Australia)
6) Table Tennis Around 900 Million Fans. (Asia, Europe, Africa, Americas)
7) Baseball Around 500 Million Fans. (U.S, Japan, Cuba, Dom rep)
8) Golf Around 400 Million Fans. (U.S, Canada, Europe)
9) American football 390-410 Million Fans. (U.S mainly)
10) Basketball Not more than 400M Fans. (U.S, Canada mainly

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-12-2009 9:22 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-12-2009 9:25 PM]

[Edited by - arkrud on 04-12-2009 9:27 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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4/12/2009  9:54 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

the nba product is absolutely terrible. it takes a back seat to football and serves as a very bland appetizer to baseball. it's basically unwatchable at this point.

that's only cuz the teams u like suck... i'm pretty sure Lakers, Cavs & Celtic fans have no problem w/how the NBA game has progressed.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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why are there no tough players in the league anymore like oakley?
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