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JVG spits the TRUTH
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Cosmic
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4/10/2009  8:39 AM
"The Knicks' record is what the record is and the record for the decade is what it is," said Van Gundy, the third-winningest coach in franchise history. "You can't spin that for anything positive. But the positives they do have going for them is an owner that wants to win and will spend money to win. They have an executive in Donnie Walsh who has proven to be an astute judge of talent and character and has put together near championship teams. And they have a successful coach.

"What they need are starting-caliber players. They have nice guys if you're talking about four or fifth starters or rotation backups. They've got to find a best player that they can build around."

...and I agree. Anyone anointing Lee or Chandler as star players starting on a solid playoff team you really need to listen to reality for a bit. We are chock full of great 6-10 men. Our bench is set! However our starting unit of 0 for 5. He was probably being kind saying we might have a 4th or 5th starter here. That only happens if our top 3 are LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

I'd like our kids to succeed as much as anyone but I am also a highly realistic fan....this team blows!
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Pharzeone
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4/10/2009  8:59 AM
Wasn't Van Dumby run off from coaching? Too bad he doesn't have Ewing watching his back anymore. I can understand why he is angry at the world. Stealing another man's playbook and coaching a franchise player doesn't mean you have an insight on the game of basketball. I will forever remember Van Dumby for railing against Spreewell and Camby in 99 then praising himself for getting them playing time. Poor Ernie. JVG earned the title of weasel outright.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
nyk4ever
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4/10/2009  9:50 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Wasn't Van Dumby run off from coaching? Too bad he doesn't have Ewing watching his back anymore. I can understand why he is angry at the world. Stealing another man's playbook and coaching a franchise player doesn't mean you have an insight on the game of basketball. I will forever remember Van Dumby for railing against Spreewell and Camby in 99 then praising himself for getting them playing time. Poor Ernie. JVG earned the title of weasel outright.

He wasn't run off from coaching.. if he wanted a job, he'd get one tomorrow. He said currently, he's not interested in coaching, but will be back.
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Vmart
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4/10/2009  12:04 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
"The Knicks' record is what the record is and the record for the decade is what it is," said Van Gundy, the third-winningest coach in franchise history. "You can't spin that for anything positive. But the positives they do have going for them is an owner that wants to win and will spend money to win. They have an executive in Donnie Walsh who has proven to be an astute judge of talent and character and has put together near championship teams. And they have a successful coach.

"What they need are starting-caliber players. They have nice guys if you're talking about four or fifth starters or rotation backups. They've got to find a best player that they can build around."

...and I agree. Anyone anointing Lee or Chandler as star players starting on a solid playoff team you really need to listen to reality for a bit. We are chock full of great 6-10 men. Our bench is set! However our starting unit of 0 for 5. He was probably being kind saying we might have a 4th or 5th starter here. That only happens if our top 3 are LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

I'd like our kids to succeed as much as anyone but I am also a highly realistic fan....this team blows!

JVG was never into developing players. Its easy for him to call everyone a 4th and 5th player. He never developed a player to save his life. Ming was a fist overall pick he had to develop him by default. If Chandler and Gallinari are 4th and 5th player under JVG they would be 10th and 12th player, which basically means he would have rotted them on the bench their careers would be John Wallace like and Postell like. When you are developing talent then everyone is basically a 4th and 5th player or worse. I'm not saying that the Knicks are talented but I am saying that Gallinari and Chander might be better than 4th and 5th players. As for others they have been in the league for a while now and its safe to say that they are 4th and 5th players. I understand that you need a superstar every team needs that without one you would hard pressed for wins. Sometime the teams aren't lucky to have a Ewing or a Ming so they have to work hard to develop a talent which JVG knows absolutely nothing about.
Pharzeone
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4/10/2009  12:12 PM
The fool lost out a chance to coach Lebron because he couldn't commit to starting him in his rookie year. WTF? This is the same man that said that he doesn't know how to coach rookies when John Wallace was traded along with McCarty. He rather have them after a couple of years in the league. I lost a lot of respect for him after those comments. You acknowledge your limitations but also acknowlege that you aren't willing to change or learn.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
SupremeCommander
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4/10/2009  1:52 PM
Good God... I don't know how anyone can argue with JVG when I'd say his opinion happens to be the consensus opinion amongst Knicks fans. All I know is Ewing wanted to play for him, he's been a successful coach in the league, he's one of the best color commentators in the sport, and the Knicks organization went downhill after his resignation
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JrZyHuStLa
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4/10/2009  2:09 PM
You have to be a fool to not agree with what he's saying.

We need a franchise player.

Wake up a little and smell the coffee.
Vmart
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4/10/2009  3:19 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

You have to be a fool to not agree with what he's saying.

We need a franchise player.

Wake up a little and smell the coffee.


Everyone knows that so why is what he is say so relevant. Its already known fact.
EnySpree
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4/10/2009  3:41 PM
JVG talks a lot be he aint sayin nothing!!!

He's just stating the obvious...Lock the tread!!! Lol!!!
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orangeblobman
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4/10/2009  4:01 PM
JVG is a smart man and a good coach. What he said is spot on, and it is what, in general, this board has been saying for a while-- we need a star or two, and we're a contender.
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TMS
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4/10/2009  4:09 PM
Posted by orangeblobman:

JVG is a smart man and a good coach. What he said is spot on, and it is what, in general, this board has been saying for a while-- we need a star or two, and we're a contender.

agreed
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JrZyHuStLa
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4/10/2009  4:27 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

You have to be a fool to not agree with what he's saying.

We need a franchise player.

Wake up a little and smell the coffee.


Everyone knows that so why is what he is say so relevant. Its already known fact.

So he reiterated it. Don't you or people on this forum do that everyday ?
Vmart
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4/10/2009  5:15 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:

You have to be a fool to not agree with what he's saying.

We need a franchise player.

Wake up a little and smell the coffee.


Everyone knows that so why is what he is say so relevant. Its already known fact.

So he reiterated it. Don't you or people on this forum do that everyday ?

I didn't. I assumed that everyone on this board is intelligent to know the obvious.
Finestrg
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4/10/2009  11:31 PM
Saw the game on ESPN tonight. I love Jeff, always will, even love him as an analyst, but come on dude, enough with the going out of your way to put David Lee down. The guy just refuses to acknowledge that Lee's a good player and has played well this season. OK we understand, you left with a bitter taste and you didn't like some of the comments Lee and Harrington made after a loss a month or two ago. You're right Jeff, there's no such thing as a 'good loss' or a 'feel good loss' or whatever the hell those two said at the time. Then he didn't like what Lee had to say in response. Now tonight, he just poo-poos the amount of double-doubles the man's put up this season, implying it's merely a product of D'Antoni's system. Come on now - all those double-doubles just made Lee a $10 mil. a year player... Even the play-by-play guy for ESPN tonight didn't know what to make of Jeff's comments there:
P by P guy: "Well you gotta admit that Lee having more double-doubles than Howard this season is impressive."
Jeff: "Who cares. It's all about winning games..."
And when the P by P guy belabored the point a bit, Jeff snapped and said, "are you trying to annoy me"? Then came an uncomfortable silence for a few seconds. Anyone catch that? I was cracking up and I know Jon Barry, also part of the telecast, must've been like 'WTF'? Jeff's got a funny sense of humor and I think it was partially said in jest but it was awkward nonetheless, much like his famous 'Jordan's a con-man' comments. Relax Gundy. We know you don't like the Knicks & David Lee. Can we move on now and stop going overboard please there buddy. Guy really goes off the deep end sometimes...


[Edited by - finestrg on 04-10-2009 11:45 PM]
Pharzeone
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4/10/2009  11:38 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

Saw the game tonight -- I love Jeff, always will, even love him as an analyst, but come on dude, enough with the going out of your way to put David Lee down. The guy just refuses to acknowledge that Lee's a good player and has played well this season. OK we understand, you left with a bitter taste and you didn't like some of the comments Lee and Harrington made after a loss a month or two ago. You're right Jeff, there's no such thing as a 'good loss' or a 'feel good loss' or whatever the hell those two said at the time. Then he didn't like what Lee had to say in response. Now tonight, he just poo-poos the amount of double-doubles the man's put up this season, even implying it's a product of D'Antoni's system. Come on now. Even the play-by-play guy for ESPN tonight didn't know what to make of Jeff's comments there:
P by P guy: "Well you gotta admit that Lee having more double-doubles than Howard this season is impressive."
Jeff: "Who cares. It's all about winning games..." And when the P by P guy belabored the point a bit, Jeff snapped and said, "are you trying to annoy me"? Then came an uncomfortable silence for a few seconds. Anyone catch that? I was cracking up. Alright Gundy relax. We know you don't like David Lee and the Knicks. Can we move on now and stop going overboard please. LOL!

Yeah. It was uncomfortable. He defended Isiah's scouting from Barry. To illustrate his point point he talks about how Isiah was able to draft guys like Chandler, Lee and Nate late. Very good players he called them. That's straight up double-talk. I wonder Cosmic will post a thread about JVG talking up Chandler's future in the 3rd. JVG likes to talk alot most of the time it normally comes out both sides of his mouth.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
30andOverClub
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4/11/2009  12:50 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
"The Knicks' record is what the record is and the record for the decade is what it is," said Van Gundy, the third-winningest coach in franchise history. "You can't spin that for anything positive. But the positives they do have going for them is an owner that wants to win and will spend money to win. They have an executive in Donnie Walsh who has proven to be an astute judge of talent and character and has put together near championship teams. And they have a successful coach.

"What they need are starting-caliber players. They have nice guys if you're talking about four or fifth starters or rotation backups. They've got to find a best player that they can build around."

...and I agree. Anyone anointing Lee or Chandler as star players starting on a solid playoff team you really need to listen to reality for a bit. We are chock full of great 6-10 men. Our bench is set! However our starting unit of 0 for 5. He was probably being kind saying we might have a 4th or 5th starter here. That only happens if our top 3 are LeBron, Wade, and Bosh.

I'd like our kids to succeed as much as anyone but I am also a highly realistic fan....this team blows!

Highly realistic...I guess Cleveland, Orlando, San Antonio, New Orleans, Dallas, and Houston need to re-evaluate their starting lineups because they all have 2-3 players who are at best equal players to Lee and Chandler and many that are worse.

Our starting lineup is 0-5. Wow, highly realistic indeed.
nyk4ever
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4/11/2009  1:48 AM
Let's be real.. David Lee is a decent player putting up great numbers in a system that is conducive to it...
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Pharzeone
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4/11/2009  8:42 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Let's be real.. David Lee is a decent player putting up great numbers in a system that is conducive to it...

This is true but you can say that for nearly every player in the league. For example you put Dwight in a system like D'Antoni and he wouldn't look that special. For example, the Olympics really didn't showcase his skills at all.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Cosmic
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4/11/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by 30andOverClub:

Highly realistic...I guess Cleveland, Orlando, San Antonio, New Orleans, Dallas, and Houston need to re-evaluate their starting lineups because they all have 2-3 players who are at best equal players to Lee and Chandler and many that are worse.

Our starting lineup is 0-5. Wow, highly realistic indeed.

Yes...it is a realistic thought.

SAS? Duncan, Manu, Parker. Duncan and Parker are superstars. Manu is a star. In fact Parker should be the 3rd guy in the MVP discussion this year given how he kept that team afloat through numerous injuries to the other two. But, no, some people just gotta slob over Wade. Different convo though.

CLE? LeBron, Big Z, Ford.

ORL? Uh, Dwight Howard, the third best player in the NBA, Hedo who is VERY solid, Rashard and Nelson who have been superb.

DAL? Dirk, Terry, Howard.

HOU? Ming, TCrap, Artest, Battier...

NO? Paul the best PG in the league....

Yes, if you have a team where you have three All-Star caliber players, one or two who are superstars, you can afford to have Lee and Chandler in your starting lineup.

When Lee and Chandler are your best players? YOU ARE CRAP

...as evidenced by our 30 win season.

So I'm not sure what you find wrong with my original post, JVG comments, and my added on two cents. They state the obvious and the truth. We vastly overrate our players. We act like we should win 50 games a year when we talk about how great Lee, Chandler, Nate, Duhon, Harrington, Gallo are or will be. Fact is they are no where near as good as we make them out to be.

We have a superb 4th through 10th man rotation I would say.

If you could just go and add 3 superstars to the mix we are an amazing team. Unfortunately we're asking out 4th, 5th, and 6th men to be our 1st, 2nd and 3rd men. I could care less about their stats or occasional monster game. We are what our record says we are. PURE TRASH.

If we go out and claim that Lee-Gallo-Chandler-Nate-Duhon is our starting five for the next five years and pay them all accordingly? Get ready for consistent 35-ish win seasons.

That lineup should be our BENCH and would be the BENCH on any really good team. To think otherwise is just foolish.

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sebstar
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4/11/2009  3:12 PM
"If you have a superstar or two in your lineup you can "AFFORD" to have Chandler in your lineup"???? You make him sound like he is some sort of albatross and not an up and coming 21 y/o who is putting up really good numbers. Again, I'll say this forever, imagine if Chandler was Nets pick
.
This marginalization and myopia stuff has gotten out of hand.
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