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Let The Truth Be Known Dolan,Vandummy KILLED THE FUTURE OF NY
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playa2
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11/17/2003  8:04 AM
Knick owner James Dolan "ordered" the controversial firing of former GM Ernie Grunfeld in 1999, according to a soon-to-be released book.

In the book - Garden Glory: An Oral History of the New York Knicks by Dennis D'Agostino, the team's former PR man and now its official historian - ex-Garden President Dave Checketts says the order was the first sign Dolan was taking a hands-on approach to running the Knicks.

Checketts left the Knicks in the summer of 2001 because of Dolan's increasing influence.

Checketts reveals he received a phone call from the late former Dolan aide, Marc Lustgarten, with Dolan's dismissal edict. Checketts claims he fought the move, pointing out the Bulls had won titles despite the Phil Jackson/Jerry Krause feud.

Grunfeld and former coach Jeff Van Gundy were embroiled in a similar feud. Dolan called a meeting with Van Gundy and Grunfeld and later decided to let Grunfeld go. Grunfeld is now the Wizards GM.

"I get a call from Lustgarten saying, 'Jim wants one of them gone,' " Checketts says. "We'll let you choose, but he wants one of them gone."



Checketts claims that, three days later, Lustgarten called him again and said, "He wants Ernie gone. I said, 'On what basis?' Marc said, 'He's failed in his management role. He's failed to relate to and communicate with his coach.' "

Says Checketts: "I didn't think either one of them should have been fired. . . . Frankly, I was upset Dolan was starting to move in and take that kind of measure with the team because I had always had control over what happened with the team."

Checketts also takes a jab at Pat Riley for the Knicks' failure to win the 1994 championship when John Starks shot 2-for-18 in Game 7 in Houston.

"We should have won in 1994, if Rolando Blackman had been given any time off the bench," he says.




Can you envision Grunfeld wheeling and dealing still being with the knicks? Instead Vandummy's wins from pouting and we inherit LAYDEN. This is why I dislike VANDUNCE. OUR FUTURE WAS AT STAKE WHEN GUNDY STARTED POUTING!


[Edited by - playa2 on 11/17/2003 08:07:37]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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GoNyGoNyGo
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11/17/2003  8:16 AM
hey playa - does JVG have a restraining order against you? If not, he should!

This is hilarious! From what you posted, you should be blaming DOLAN and DOLAN only. Checketts would have kept Ernie and made the figure it out. Remember it is Dolan who chased JVG out of town too. Every time you bring this up, I must ask you, HOW DID ERNIE do in Milwaukee? How is he doing in Washington? Ernie is a good GM, but he is NOT Jerry West.

Relax. JVG is not on the Knicks anymore. The ones messing this up now are the ones you were protecting up til now, Layden, Chaney and Dolan!
playa2
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11/17/2003  8:20 AM
Gony save it man, Vangundy pouted grunfeld out at the meeting with management. They said "GRUNFELD" didn't get along with the coach GUNDY! fACT IS RIGHT THERE AND YOU CONTINUE to try and escape it. What the Rockets have coming up is a few loses and disentions Raptors took it to them and now some meat of the schedule is coming up . Blinders will be removed about gundy the next few weeks.Dolan and GUNDY ruined the knicks.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
LJStillGrandmama
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11/17/2003  9:13 AM
Playa, how low is your reading comprehension. That excerpt clearly states that they didn't like each other... but the plan was for them to continue working together. DOLAN, and only DOLAN mandated a firing.

Get over your Van Dummy kicks... the real poison on the Knicks now is your boy Van Horn. Where are his big scoring games now? What, he's had over 20 points 3 times in 9 games? Real GReat
If anyone knows of a SMART Knicks forum, with lots of activity, and minus people like PLAYA... holla at your boy.
playa2
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11/17/2003  9:21 AM
This thread is about who ruined the knicks, not what you two are trying to muster up. Dolan had gundy sucking up to him just like he sucked up to to Ewing. I cannot stand this guy, he duped so many people it's pathetic.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nedyal1
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11/17/2003  9:43 AM


Grunfeld bloating of Milwaukees roster and extension to Karl did that team in. Sort of like the knicks.

Checketts left in 2001, and he had a hand in the bloating.

Now three moves Spoon, Eisley, and Anderson are the only real bad moves that we can really lay on Laydog/checketts. Under checketts we almost one a tittle or two, but really laid down a path we are paying for.

Dice trade was wrong, but had a lot of balls to it.

If we are to salvage the season, Chaney must go if the players don't respond soon.. They did better against Indiana. Perhaps improvement is in the air.

Dolan is not going anywhere soon, and Laydog is trying to rebuild with a pipeline, keep the garden full, and win today. Maybe trying to do all three is not possible at once.

The roster is obviously flawed, but I think they can and will play better. If they won't buy into chaney, then he needs to go.

IF we knew the plans of management, then we could then know what the priority is. Win now? Build for the future?

Fans are upset with little hope. I can understand why someone must be strung up and pay?

Funny how this story about Grunfeld gets out now. Media is so guilable.

Rangers are just as bad as knicks in management style. Dolan needs to look at his plan and adjust it. Then and only then can better decisions be made. Laydog is very capable person, but there is a string of bad decisions that go back many years before he took over and for both Knicks and Rangers. I beleive with a business plan like the one that is in place, even Jerry West would fail.

All this stuff about Spree/Grunfled lends itself to also ask another question, was it even a sound move to bring him here to begin with? Dolan obviously runs the ship, so he approved or did he want another headlining act? It made no sense to bring another shooting guard here. It bloated our payroll and he became untradeable as his game declined.. It also prolinged our mediocrity. Granted we made an improbable run in strike shortand 1999 but did it help in the long run? Spree kept the team artifically competitive, thus enabled a Dice type trade to possibley keep us in the upper level of teams. Also would ROLE players like spoon and Eisely been signed if your putting together a young team as we should have? Would you draft better, and obviously have better pick postition?
Would you trade draft picks for Mark Jackson if your building a young team?

We all know the outcome, but where is plan that makes the decisions proper for accomplishment of the goal?

Im not blaming spree, but think about the decision to bring him here, and did it really help in the LONG run?
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
playa2
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11/17/2003  9:45 AM
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

hey playa - does JVG have a restraining order against you? If not, he should!

This is hilarious! From what you posted, you should be blaming DOLAN and DOLAN only. Checketts would have kept Ernie and made the figure it out. Remember it is Dolan who chased JVG out of town too. Every time you bring this up, I must ask you, HOW DID ERNIE do in Milwaukee? How is he doing in Washington? Ernie is a good GM, but he is NOT Jerry West.

Relax. JVG is not on the Knicks anymore. The ones messing this up now are the ones you were protecting up til now, Layden, Chaney and Dolan!
Dolan chased vandunce out when Vandunce who won the power battle with Grunfeld didn't want to stay for the mess hemade
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/17/2003  10:15 AM
Bottom Line: Bumfeld was bad, and LayDown is WORSE.

Van Gundy was just a coach. DOLAN is to blame, NOT Van Gundy.

Playa, I really think you're obsessed with JVG. In your mind, he's the reason for all the world's problems.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Andrew
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11/17/2003  10:17 AM
Posted by playa2:

Dolan chased vandunce out when Vandunce who won the power battle with Grunfeld didn't want to stay for the mess hemade

Exactly how did Dolan chase out JVG when Jeff didn't want to stay? Jeff left NY....he wasn't chased out.
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playa2
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11/17/2003  10:41 AM
ANDREW, why don't you ask gony that question , he made that statement.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Andrew
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11/17/2003  10:57 AM
Playa....I don't know if the quote thing messed things up but it looks like you wrote that in your post.
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playa2
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11/17/2003  11:38 AM
Posted by GoNyGoNyGo:

hey playa - does JVG have a restraining order against you? If not, he should!

This is hilarious! From what you posted, you should be blaming DOLAN and DOLAN only. Checketts would have kept Ernie and made the figure it out. Remember it is Dolan who chased JVG out of town too. Every time you bring this up, I must ask you, HOW DID ERNIE do in Milwaukee? How is he doing in Washington? Ernie is a good GM, but he is NOT Jerry West.

Relax. JVG is not on the Knicks anymore. The ones messing this up now are the ones you were protecting up til now, Layden, Chaney and Dolan!
Here ya go ANDREW if this doesn't help then I can't help ya Gony quoted that statement.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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11/17/2003  1:59 PM
Andrew -

IMO JVG was pushed out becasue

He was denied an opportunity to talk to Portland AND was denied an extension of his contract. He knew he was a lame duck and was to be fired by year end. His record with NY was second to Holzman only! Yet he was denied. Chaney came and went 20-43 and got one! It is obvious Dolan was going to fire JVG, so JVG beat him to it and yes he stuck it to Dolan and the franchise.

Chaney is Dolan's lackey, they will NEVER fire him during the season this year. Not even if Phil jackson was available!

Dolan must go! Then Layden! Then Chaney!

I would be happy to see Spike Lee or P Diddy own the team. Yeah they would be involved but hey would be trying to build a winner, not just worried about the money. Dolan is about image and $$. JVG is about winning. I am confident it is not image.

Don't let Playa's rants confuse you. He tries to rewrite history all the time.

GoNyGoNyGo
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11/17/2003  2:02 PM
by the way, Playa Answer my question. How did Ernie do since nY?

As for you getting on HOuston, just remember they are 6-3 in the Western Conference. Do you want to bet how may wins they will have this year? Toronto beat them in double OT in Toronto! How is that getting it handed to them? Please! Remember JVG has excuses too, just like your boy Chaney! LOL!!!

You are too much.

Nedyal1
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11/17/2003  2:18 PM
JVG gave it everything he had. He needed a break, and took it when his stock was up.

Spree cursed him out?? Yeah, I'd leave also. Who needs that kind of crap and disrespect. JVG had market value and was seen in NY as the assistant to riles whom got the job when Ewing annointed him as opposed to a exedus in Ewings contract year. ANd it worked well.

Now he got his own program on his terms, and respect from all.

Checketts had the recipe, Bumfeld followed it, and Laydog got cooked in it.

ANd player, list your sources. You make it look like you wrote that article. Give a link or the source.

Until Laydog is replaced, I root for him to make the right moves.

Dolan is the owner, he is not going anywhere, one can hope that he allow basketball people run the ship. We don't know how good or bad Laydog really is, and we don't know how bad Dolan directs this thing. So until otherwise, I root for LAydog to do the right thing.

THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/17/2003  3:10 PM
Posted by Nedyal1:

ANd player, list your sources. You make it look like you wrote that article. Give a link or the source.

You've been around here long enough to know that Playa is famous for that. Even when he's exposed time after time, he still has yet to learn.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/17/2003  3:17 PM
BTW Nedyal, if LayDown is punk enough to let Dolan destroy his hep, then it's obvious how bad he is.

It's not about making excuses for LayDOwn, it's about wins and losses. After two losing seasons and being in the midst of a third, how much more evidence do you need?

If you wanna keep wasting your time rooting for this loser LayDown to make the right moves (LMAO), then be my guest. He will outta here at the end of the season, and then this banter can finally come to an end.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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11/17/2003  4:03 PM
Those in the know remember when spree cussed vandummy out because I posted it the next day. I t was awile ago Gony knows about it , but prolly won't say so.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Let The Truth Be Known Dolan,Vandummy KILLED THE FUTURE OF NY

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