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Offseason aquisition possibilities - Category:No nonsense vet leadership
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JohnWallace44
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3/19/2009  1:16 AM
Since we came in to a seriously important game against the Nets and basically wet our pants again, a pattern that has happened time after time for years with this team, we need to clear out the roster. That's plain as day to me.

However, if we bring in a youth movement, we'll need to have some leadership to keep them developing and giving a full effort on a nightly basis.

Who can we bring in to make this happen?

'Sheed?
Kidd?
Nash(if the Suns use the ETO)
Artest
Marion
Hill
BirdMan Andersen

Any thoughts? Is veteran leadership overrated?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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TMS
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3/19/2009  5:56 AM
wth are Artest, Marion & Birdman Anderson doing on that list? the first two have never been known to be leaders, & the third is a career scrub... & which Hill are u talking about? Grant Hill? i hope not.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
MS
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3/19/2009  9:31 AM
Artest is a top 15 player period.
SupremeCommander
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3/19/2009  9:39 AM
I'd go for Nash and Marion because of the success with and Sheed if possible. Artest would be awesome, but honestly I'll defer to Walsh on that idea because if he's still a volatile, raging lunatic I don't want that here. Kidd and Hill would be the alternative, and maybe a better option because Hill already accepted a reserve role (which Marion would probably have to accept here) and while Kidd doesn't play defense I don't think he'd bet asked to here, and he could tutor whoever the Knicks draft to be the PG of the future.

And I'm a HUGE Sheed fan. He's not what he was, but he is INTENSE. And if you look back on my posts earlier this season, I said wilson Chandler's potential is 70% of Sheed, because based on how he played KG this year, I think Chandler could be an outside PF in this league. Who better to tutor him than Sheed?
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
BRIGGS
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3/19/2009  9:58 AM
Posted by MS:

Artest is a top 15 player period.

You mean was
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MS
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3/19/2009  10:04 AM
I don't know look at him on the Rockets now that McGrady is out. They are a much better team and he is leading them.
misterearl
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3/19/2009  10:28 AM
An Ode To Malik Rose / "What Goes Around, Comes Around" / What's It Worth To You?

JohnWallace - you make an excellent point. Without veteran leadership you have the Atlanta Hawks, who have NEVER had veteran leadership and still must suffer the impotency of Coach Mike Woodson and the tantrums of Josh Smith

Our beloved New York Knicks miss Charles Oakley and Larry Johnson. Not just veteran leadership, but veteran leadership who can actually play a lick. Malik Rose was veteran leadership but he was of no use on the court. Can you say assistant coach?

Veteran leadership commands respect in the locker room and on the floor.

Veteran leadership makes guys laugh at the right time.

Veteran leadership kicks azz in practice, and yes we talkin' bout practice.

Veteran leadership must have played in the league for 7 years, minimum.

Veteran leadership is 6'8 and 240 pounds, minimum.

Veteran leadership has enough respect of the coach to address the team without permission

Veteran leadership only talks to the media when he wants to, rides anywhere on the team bus, will call you at 3AM to talk about a blown defensive switch and shows up for training camp in game condition.

Which brings this discussion of veteran leadership in a nice, neat circle back to Lebron James
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Cosmic
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3/19/2009  10:32 AM
We're rebuilding, folks, I can't for the life of me understand why so many fans refuse to understand the concept.

You don't bring in players and couple them with this roster to try to win next season.

The goal is to purge this roster and that is going to take one more full season to complete.

This roster was not assembled to compete this season nor next season. It was assembled with the mind set of purging the roster of Isiah's mistakes.

These rentals will also be purged following next season and then and only then will you begin to see players brought in to actually be used to build the new New York Knicks.

This current roster is comprised of mostly rentals that will be purged and partly of players who are auditioning for the 2010-2011 New York Knicks.

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fishmike
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3/19/2009  10:40 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by MS:

Artest is a top 15 player period.

You mean was
then you havent watched him this year.

He is still a monster and has won several games for the Rockets who have had guys in and out of the line up all year.

We are desperate for defense and size. Obviously our biggest needs is center but Artest would be a huge pickup and I think a great influence on Chandler (who should model is game after Artest)

Artest wants to be here... you just hope like hell he doesnt implode.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
MS
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3/19/2009  10:48 AM
How are we rebuilding.

We ****ed up the draft yet again and passed on All-Stars and took a kid that may never be right again at 20 years old. His career is in trouble. Lopez is an All-Star in 2 years and the 2nd best center in the conference for the next 10 seasons.

We haven't made the playoffs for 7 years and we have chandler, lee, and nate as a core. That's disgraceful.

We add Larry Hughes for what reason to help us win three more games and knock us out of getting a pg we really want.

Accepting rebuilding is fine, but if there is a plan? Walsh could have easily moved Zach for a second round selection before the season and used the pick on Deandre Jordan and worked with him as a project. Not to mention we wouldn't have killed two roster spot

He had four very good players that went after gallo that could have been real foundations for the future. Stupidity just keeps winning out here.
BasketballJones
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3/19/2009  10:51 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by MS:

Artest is a top 15 player period.

You mean was
then you havent watched him this year.

He is still a monster and has won several games for the Rockets who have had guys in and out of the line up all year.

We are desperate for defense and size. Obviously our biggest needs is center but Artest would be a huge pickup and I think a great influence on Chandler (who should model is game after Artest)

Artest wants to be here... you just hope like hell he doesnt implode.

With Marbury gone we could use a guy like Artest to keep things interesting.
https:// It's not so hard.
Cosmic
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3/19/2009  10:57 AM
Posted by MS:

How are we rebuilding.

We ****ed up the draft yet again and passed on All-Stars and took a kid that may never be right again at 20 years old. His career is in trouble. Lopez is an All-Star in 2 years and the 2nd best center in the conference for the next 10 seasons.

We haven't made the playoffs for 7 years and we have chandler, lee, and nate as a core. That's disgraceful.

We add Larry Hughes for what reason to help us win three more games and knock us out of getting a pg we really want.

Accepting rebuilding is fine, but if there is a plan? Walsh could have easily moved Zach for a second round selection before the season and used the pick on Deandre Jordan and worked with him as a project. Not to mention we wouldn't have killed two roster spot

He had four very good players that went after gallo that could have been real foundations for the future. Stupidity just keeps winning out here.

Re-Read my post. It explains exactly how we are rebuilding.

I'm not sure what you are missing....

Step 1: Purge the Front Office: Check!
Step 2: Swap previous regimes mistakes with temporary players who fit the financial plan of the future: CHECK!
Step 3: Purge the roster of the temporary players -=- and -=- decide which of the auditioning player to keep: (Completion Date: July 2010) -=- (In Progress)
Step 4: Begin to build the new roster that you wish to compete with: Begins July 2010
Step 5: Add to the core: Continues into 2011
Step 6: BE COMPETITIVE: Likely starting the 2011-2012 season.


THAT is rebuilding, MS, that is rebuilding a franchise!

Isiah's method of swapping players and mashing them together and hoping it works is NOT REBUILDING that's just a disaster....
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SupremeCommander
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3/19/2009  11:07 AM
Posted by MS:

How are we rebuilding.

We ****ed up the draft yet again and passed on All-Stars and took a kid that may never be right again at 20 years old. His career is in trouble. Lopez is an All-Star in 2 years and the 2nd best center in the conference for the next 10 seasons.

We haven't made the playoffs for 7 years and we have chandler, lee, and nate as a core. That's disgraceful.

We add Larry Hughes for what reason to help us win three more games and knock us out of getting a pg we really want.

Accepting rebuilding is fine, but if there is a plan? Walsh could have easily moved Zach for a second round selection before the season and used the pick on Deandre Jordan and worked with him as a project. Not to mention we wouldn't have killed two roster spot

He had four very good players that went after gallo that could have been real foundations for the future. Stupidity just keeps winning out here.

+1

This isn't a rebuild. This is a countdown til 2010, when the Knicks sign all available mercenaries, which will likely be second or third tier players.

And, this strategy used to be employed by the NY Rangers... From after the 97 playoffs til after the strike, the Rangers chased players with money and what they got were players with no heart and didn't make the playoffs during that span, and for part of that time the old ass Glen Sather was the GM (still is, and many think the game has passed him by. The only reason the Rangers made the playoffs is because Jagr got dumped a la Steve Francis but reinvigorated his career annd the Rangers got lucky with a draft pick that turned out to be a franchise goaltender, even though the team had spent a first rounder on a different goaltener).

I'd say the rosy SupremeCommander left the building as the realist SupremeCommander returned thinking, "you are what you are." What the Knicks are is a youthful group of rentals, not a future.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 03-19-2009 11:12 AM]
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
K22
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3/19/2009  11:12 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by MS:

Artest is a top 15 player period.

You mean was
then you havent watched him this year.

He is still a monster and has won several games for the Rockets who have had guys in and out of the line up all year.

We are desperate for defense and size. Obviously our biggest needs is center but Artest would be a huge pickup and I think a great influence on Chandler (who should model is game after Artest)

Artest wants to be here... you just hope like hell he doesnt implode.


I highly doubt that DW brings in Ron-Ron. Their exploits in Indy are probably still fresh in his mind.
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
JohnWallace44
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3/19/2009  11:21 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

We're rebuilding, folks, I can't for the life of me understand why so many fans refuse to understand the concept.

You don't bring in players and couple them with this roster to try to win next season.

Woah woah woah. Nobody's saying that we need to bring in multiple players to contend.

Thing is though, MikeD's offensive system is going to win us a number of games that will keep us in the playoff race no matter who is on the floor. I'm for a total rebuild, but if we end up running out a starting lineup with Maynor, Chandler, Christmas, Al and Mullens then we need to have a proven winner - veteran presence to keep the team on task. One dude to help develop the team on the floor.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BRIGGS
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3/19/2009  11:22 AM
Isiah's method of swapping players and mashing them together and hoping it works is NOT REBUILDING that's just a disaster....
[/quote]

Isnt that what we have done this year?
RIP Crushalot😞
MS
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3/19/2009  11:28 AM
This was the year to tank since we don't have a pick next season. We should have done the Zach deal over the summer and it would have opened up a roster spot.

1. We shouldn't have drafted Gallo because we had Lee/Chandler.
2. If we didn't see Lee in Nate in our future plans then move them
3. We didn't need to trade for Larry Hughes

This season we needed a cornerstone, Brook Lopez or Eric Gordon was that guy. Next season the same. Then if you want to add someone to help win after the season that's when you do it.

We have no chance of getting a guy now that Gallo's career is likely over
martin
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3/19/2009  12:11 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by MS:

How are we rebuilding.

We ****ed up the draft yet again and passed on All-Stars and took a kid that may never be right again at 20 years old. His career is in trouble. Lopez is an All-Star in 2 years and the 2nd best center in the conference for the next 10 seasons.

We haven't made the playoffs for 7 years and we have chandler, lee, and nate as a core. That's disgraceful.

We add Larry Hughes for what reason to help us win three more games and knock us out of getting a pg we really want.

Accepting rebuilding is fine, but if there is a plan? Walsh could have easily moved Zach for a second round selection before the season and used the pick on Deandre Jordan and worked with him as a project. Not to mention we wouldn't have killed two roster spot

He had four very good players that went after gallo that could have been real foundations for the future. Stupidity just keeps winning out here.

+1

This isn't a rebuild. This is a countdown til 2010, when the Knicks sign all available mercenaries, which will likely be second or third tier players.

And, this strategy used to be employed by the NY Rangers... From after the 97 playoffs til after the strike, the Rangers chased players with money and what they got were players with no heart and didn't make the playoffs during that span, and for part of that time the old ass Glen Sather was the GM (still is, and many think the game has passed him by. The only reason the Rangers made the playoffs is because Jagr got dumped a la Steve Francis but reinvigorated his career annd the Rangers got lucky with a draft pick that turned out to be a franchise goaltender, even though the team had spent a first rounder on a different goaltener).

I'd say the rosy SupremeCommander left the building as the realist SupremeCommander returned thinking, "you are what you are." What the Knicks are is a youthful group of rentals, not a future.

[Edited by - supremecommander on 03-19-2009 11:12 AM]

why is MS's post +1 and why would you consider the Knicks NOT rebuilding.

- Hire the best coach you can. CHECK
- Settle an a philosophy and try to get players that match that style. CHECK.
- Try to do everything to change the culture. CHECK (Balkman, Marbury gone).
- get rid of long term contract and/or players that don't fit said philosophy. CHECK CHECK CHECK (Crawford, Zbo, James).
- play young guys lots of minutes and see what you got. CHECK.

Am I missing something or was Donnie supposed to turn 4 years of Isiah suck in 1 season?
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martin
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3/19/2009  12:16 PM
Posted by MS:

This was the year to tank since we don't have a pick next season. We should have done the Zach deal over the summer and it would have opened up a roster spot.

1. We shouldn't have drafted Gallo because we had Lee/Chandler.
2. If we didn't see Lee in Nate in our future plans then move them
3. We didn't need to trade for Larry Hughes

This season we needed a cornerstone, Brook Lopez or Eric Gordon was that guy. Next season the same. Then if you want to add someone to help win after the season that's when you do it.

We have no chance of getting a guy now that Gallo's career is likely over

on one hand you are arguing that we should not have drafted Gallo because we had Lee/Chandler, but on the other hand you say draft Eric Gordon when the Knicks had Crawford/Nate. FAIL.

and we just hired a coach with a more uptempo flair (for better or worse) and you want to stick him with Lopez? About as good as trading for Zbo when you got Curry. That's major FAIL too.
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franco12
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3/19/2009  12:30 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by MS:

This was the year to tank since we don't have a pick next season. We should have done the Zach deal over the summer and it would have opened up a roster spot.

1. We shouldn't have drafted Gallo because we had Lee/Chandler.
2. If we didn't see Lee in Nate in our future plans then move them
3. We didn't need to trade for Larry Hughes

This season we needed a cornerstone, Brook Lopez or Eric Gordon was that guy. Next season the same. Then if you want to add someone to help win after the season that's when you do it.

We have no chance of getting a guy now that Gallo's career is likely over

on one hand you are arguing that we should not have drafted Gallo because we had Lee/Chandler, but on the other hand you say draft Eric Gordon when the Knicks had Crawford/Nate. FAIL.

and we just hired a coach with a more uptempo flair (for better or worse) and you want to stick him with Lopez? About as good as trading for Zbo when you got Curry. That's major FAIL too.

Lopez seems to work in the Nets high post offense- no idea what Walsh & CO wouldn't have been able to envision him working here with MDA. Put Lopez on this squad instead of Gallo and we are in the 8 position right now.

Hindsight is 20/20- but experts are supposed to be able to see potential in a player and are paid big bucks to make the right decision the first time.
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