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Houston Produces,KVH just doesn't
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CanadianKnicksFan
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11/15/2003  2:49 PM
Allan keeps putting up good #'s every night,KVH just disappears!

This get's on my nerves we need KVH 17 & 8 almost every night considering we get nonething from the bench on a regular basis.
Pure Starks Love
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knickgeek
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11/15/2003  4:22 PM
Is it just me, or does this dude spend most of the time on the bench, in foul trouble?
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/15/2003  7:55 PM
KVH is in the NBA top 5 SF's in both personal fouls (#4) and turnovers (#1).

Of course Allan is gonna produce more scoring.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/15/2003  9:58 PM
KVH had a decent game, but the bottom line is the win/loss stat.

Oh well... 2-7...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
WOODMANnYk
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11/16/2003  10:35 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

KVH is in the NBA top 5 SF's in both personal fouls (#4) and turnovers (#1).

Of course Allan is gonna produce more scoring.
he's also the top five SF in rebounds, free throw shooting and top ten in scoring. Obviously, he's not the main problem. There's more to it on why the knicks are currently 2- 7
The Future. GO KNICKS!
nykshaknbake
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11/17/2003  1:00 AM
The man is shooting around around 35%. The only person who can do that and still help a team is Allen Iverson. Along with the fouls, TOs & defensive liability, I'd say he's been a complete bust thus far. Any talk about the All-Star team is a joke.
metra
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11/18/2003  5:11 PM
Yeah how is it possible for him to consistently turn it over. Vs Celtics he had a nice spark in the 4th but then he turned it over like 3x and had a bunch of foolish fouls. Cmon..

Plus he still doesnt fit in NY.
LongIslandKnicksFan
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11/18/2003  5:18 PM
Guys, give the guy a chance. I liked the trade. The Sprewell era is over. He is on the downside, and he deserves to be on the Timberwolves and on a better team. Keith Van Horn has surprised me with how good he is. He's just as good as Sprewell, if not better. He's better in rebounds, taller, and is atleast more consistant than Sprewell. Against the Celtics he scored 21 points, and grabbed 12 rebounds I believe.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/18/2003  5:36 PM
More consistent? LMAO Man, listen. I am glad that Spree is on a team where the management want to put together a winning situation. The problem is that management here just want players that either are too sheepish to man up and speak out when things just are not right (read: Dolan) and/or have some Utah connection (read: LayDown).

If you think Van Horn is so damned good, then why did he get traded TWICE IN 2 YEARS? I'll tell you why- because they learned the hard way that KVH is too soft and INCONSISTENT to keep around.

All the crap folks have baought into- the rebounds, the age, the height- where does that leave us? 3-7. See what our record looks like in a week, son. "just as good if not better than Spree"? Yo, crack went out with the 90's.

See what we look like by New Year's. See if you have the gall to say that mess then.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
TRU
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11/18/2003  6:03 PM
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Yo, crack went out with the 90's.

But aparently amphetamines have not. Hardcore, regardless of how hyper you are, you've got to acknowledge that in the long run, the trade was a smart move. I do like the point that Spree deserved better at this stage of his career. I hope he wins one, but it's doubtful.


Keith Van Horn
New York Knicks
Position: F
Height: 6-10 Weight: 240
College: Utah '97
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.8
RPG 7.4
APG 1.9
SPG 1.10
BPG .40
FG% .385
FT% .863
3P% .256
MPG 37.1


Latrell Sprewell
Minnesota Timberwolves
Position: F-G
Height: 6-5 Weight: 195
College: Alabama '92
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.5
RPG 4.8
APG 4.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .10
FG% .412
FT% .767
3P% .333
MPG 39.6





Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
LongIslandKnicksFan
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11/18/2003  6:09 PM
Keith Van Horn seems to have a slight advantage over Sprewell, plus he is taller, is which is good. I like Keith. As much as I like Sprewell, it was time for him to go to a team that he could have a chance in improving. Plus he didn't like the Knicks Management. He loves the fans though and that's what I love about Spree, but the trade is said and done, and Keith is on the Knicks.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/18/2003  6:42 PM
OK, well maybe we all have to get on some speed to make sure ALL the stats get mentioned. I see you conveniently omitted the Turnovers and Personal Fouls stats, kiddo. I guess it woulda killed your point before you even finished making it, huh?

I will fill in the blanks for you then. These stats come straight outta NBA.com.

Spree:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/latrell_sprewell/index.html?nav=page

TO: 2.0
PF: 1.6

NBA.COM 03-04 season Notes:
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Minutes Per Game(39.6)
Ranks #17 in the NBA in Minutes Played(396.0)
Ranks #14 in the NBA in Three-Point Field Goal Attempts(48.0)


KVH:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/keith_van_horn/index.html?nav=page

TO: 3.7
PF: 3.7

NBA.COM 03-04 season Notes:
Ranks #18 in the NBA in Free Throws(44.0)
Ranks #4 in the NBA in Total Turnovers(37.0)
Ranks #5 in the NBA in Turnovers Per Game(3.7)
Ranks #13 in the NBA in Turnovers Per 48 Minutes(4.79)

Next time you wanna prove a point with stats, don't be so choosey on what you list. Someone may just pull ya card on it.
So much for the drugs, huh? LMAO

Yeah, Keith is on the Knicks. Too bad for us. Obviously...
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
LongIslandKnicksFan
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11/18/2003  6:47 PM
It is not bad that Keith is on the Knicks. Sprewell was on the downfall, and we made a good trade. Plus, this doesn't really matter, but Keith can dunk the ball, and he takes it to the hoop.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/18/2003  7:31 PM
Dude...

We are 3-7. Dunks don't add up to wins. Plus, you won't see Van Horn on any "Dunk of the Night" clips.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
LongIslandKnicksFan
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11/18/2003  8:28 PM
Dunks are better than being slow and layups. Wouldn't you rather see high flying talent (KVH isn't exactly high flying talent, but he dunks more than Harrington, and Kurt, although I do like Kurt) rather than slow plays like Weatherspoon, Harrington, etc make layups? 3-7 is good, and we need to keep on losing the games. I was very upset when Antoine Walker missed the shot to tie the game. Knick fans have to understand. In order to win, we have to lose. A loss is better than a win at this point. And by the way, there are really good players coming out of next years draft. The Knicks had a chance to drafter Amare Stoudamire and guess what...They didn't. They had a chance to draft many other players that are coming into their own last year and this year. The Knicks NEED to get younger and the best way is through the draft.
Caseloads
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11/18/2003  9:56 PM
Posted by TRU:
Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Yo, crack went out with the 90's.

But aparently amphetamines have not. Hardcore, regardless of how hyper you are, you've got to acknowledge that in the long run, the trade was a smart move. I do like the point that Spree deserved better at this stage of his career. I hope he wins one, but it's doubtful.


Keith Van Horn
New York Knicks
Position: F
Height: 6-10 Weight: 240
College: Utah '97
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.8
RPG 7.4
APG 1.9
SPG 1.10
BPG .40
FG% .385
FT% .863
3P% .256
MPG 37.1


Latrell Sprewell
Minnesota Timberwolves
Position: F-G
Height: 6-5 Weight: 195
College: Alabama '92
Player file | Team stats

2003-04 Statistics
PPG 16.5
RPG 4.8
APG 4.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .10
FG% .412
FT% .767
3P% .333
MPG 39.6




spree's #'s are better, period. more assists = making his teammates better. but the shot percentages are what makes spree better
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/18/2003  10:30 PM
Posted by LongIslandKnicksFan:

I was very upset when Antoine Walker missed the shot to tie the game.

LongIslandKnicksFan, that was Paul Pierce. Walker was traded for Raef Lafrentz.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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11/18/2003  10:33 PM
Posted by Caseloads:

Spree's #'s are better, period. more assists = making his teammates better. but the shot percentages are what makes spree better

As well as less personal fouls and turnovers, but I already pointed that out. Case, you're on the case.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
GoNyGoNyGo
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11/18/2003  11:29 PM
What is funny about this thread is that, last year the debate was who is better, Spree or houston. It was probably 60/40 in favor of Spree. Now it is H20 or KVH, and it is 90/10 H2O! So Spree is by far the better player than KVh regardless of stats.
TRU
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11/19/2003  7:38 AM
I didn't have the luxury of being around for that fruitless debate. But you should take a look at the NBA's new efficiency stat-- it's telling.

Allan's Stats:

2003-04
Statistics
PPG 23.3
RPG 2.90
APG 2.5
EFF + 17.30

Even though Allan is number 7 in the league (gtf outta here!! Can you believe it?)in scoring, he's way down the pike in efficiency which is:

(Points + Rebounds + Assists + Steals + Blocks)
- (Field Goals Att. - Field Goals Made)
+ (Free Throws Att. - Free Throws Made)
+ Turnovers.

What it equates to is that Allan doesn't do much else besides score. But he does score alot, so it keeps the efficiency rating up.

Spree:
2003-04
Statistics
PPG 15.7
RPG 4.90
APG 3.8
EFF + 14.27

Even though he does alot more things than Alan, he's less efficient on the court by NBA standards. Plus he's got Kevin Garnet. And Wally. And a better coach.
Let it be known: I believe in the Knicks this year-- deep into the playoffs, I swear to you my brothers...
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