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Blazers not impressed with Bayless?
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earthmansurfer
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1/6/2009  5:30 AM
Taken from http://www.theknicksblog.com/ (Nice article dated Jan 5, 2009 10:39 pm)
Expectations are high in Portland and the organization maybe feeling it. The team is not that high on Sergio Rodriguez as Newsday reported a while back, but it is Outlaw who they are dangling and would prefer to get back a point guard in return. They are not happy with the dividends of sending Jarrett Jack in a package for Jerryd Bayless and Ike Diogu, as it has left them depleted at the point guard position. Bayless has proven to be more of a scoring guard and that’s not what coach Nate McMillan is asking of him and that has earned Bayless plenty of bench minutes. Diogu has had trouble cracking the 10-man rotation.

I'm not sure where Tommy Dee got that information but it makes some sense. Our concern is that Bayless is more of a combo guard, not a natural PG and undersized at SG. Not to mention we have Nate in that role.

Also, he mentions that the Blazers are looking at help at PG, for all you Sergio and Bayless fans out there (ok, I kind of like Sergio but he can't shoot great.)
Even though the above can be an alarm to both Mike D'Antoni and Walsh but we can forget that we run a very different system than Portland. So, perhaps Bayless could fit in, but if Sergio doesn't learn to shoot...

Just as an option, would anyone consider moving Duhon for Bayless and ? I'm wondering if we can fit Duhon under our cap in 2010. Come to think of it getting two max free agents in 2010 is seeming harder and harder if we are to keep any talent here.

EMS
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Bippity10
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1/6/2009  5:39 AM
Bayless makes Nate look like a Jason Kidd type passer
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martin
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1/6/2009  6:25 AM
Posted by Bippity10:

Bayless makes Nate look like a Jason Kidd type passer

is that what you saw from him in college? didn't watch him much.
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Bippity10
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1/6/2009  7:35 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bayless makes Nate look like a Jason Kidd type passer

is that what you saw from him in college? didn't watch him much.

Can't say I saw a lot of him in college. Only 3 or 4 games. Didn't pass in those. In the summer league I watched all his games and I literally did not see him pass more than 3 or 4 times. He shot everytime he touched it. In the few games this year that I've seen him play it's been much of the same. So maybe my opinion is skewed, but that's what I've seen so far
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TheGame
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1/6/2009  8:38 AM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bayless makes Nate look like a Jason Kidd type passer

is that what you saw from him in college? didn't watch him much.

Can't say I saw a lot of him in college. Only 3 or 4 games. Didn't pass in those. In the summer league I watched all his games and I literally did not see him pass more than 3 or 4 times. He shot everytime he touched it. In the few games this year that I've seen him play it's been much of the same. So maybe my opinion is skewed, but that's what I've seen so far

The guy was only a freshman in college last year and was not asked to play the pg in college. Now he has to learn the position. I am not saying he can do it, but I do now that the kid can score at a high level. I doubt the Blazers have given up on him yet. We will know more about his abilities in next year's summer league. By then, he would have had a whole year under Portland's system to learn what the PG's role is. If he making only 1 or 2 assists a game next summer league, then I would start to worry that the kid may never get it.
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Bippity10
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1/6/2009  8:54 AM
Posted by TheGame:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Bippity10:

Bayless makes Nate look like a Jason Kidd type passer

is that what you saw from him in college? didn't watch him much.

Can't say I saw a lot of him in college. Only 3 or 4 games. Didn't pass in those. In the summer league I watched all his games and I literally did not see him pass more than 3 or 4 times. He shot everytime he touched it. In the few games this year that I've seen him play it's been much of the same. So maybe my opinion is skewed, but that's what I've seen so far

The guy was only a freshman in college last year and was not asked to play the pg in college. Now he has to learn the position. I am not saying he can do it, but I do now that the kid can score at a high level. I doubt the Blazers have given up on him yet. We will know more about his abilities in next year's summer league. By then, he would have had a whole year under Portland's system to learn what the PG's role is. If he making only 1 or 2 assists a game next summer league, then I would start to worry that the kid may never get it.

Learning to distribute the ball and run an offense is the hardest thing in the game to learn. It either comes naturally or takes a decade to learn how to do effectively. Many guys can learn to average more assists but not many learn at the pro level how to run an offense. Obviously he's young and has a chance to learn, but the odds of him becoming a great PG are limited. We shall see.
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Ira
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1/6/2009  9:09 AM
So, are you saying he's a bigger Nate?
BRIGGS
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1/6/2009  9:29 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Taken from http://www.theknicksblog.com/ (Nice article dated Jan 5, 2009 10:39 pm)
Expectations are high in Portland and the organization maybe feeling it. The team is not that high on Sergio Rodriguez as Newsday reported a while back, but it is Outlaw who they are dangling and would prefer to get back a point guard in return. They are not happy with the dividends of sending Jarrett Jack in a package for Jerryd Bayless and Ike Diogu, as it has left them depleted at the point guard position. Bayless has proven to be more of a scoring guard and that’s not what coach Nate McMillan is asking of him and that has earned Bayless plenty of bench minutes. Diogu has had trouble cracking the 10-man rotation.

I'm not sure where Tommy Dee got that information but it makes some sense. Our concern is that Bayless is more of a combo guard, not a natural PG and undersized at SG. Not to mention we have Nate in that role.

Also, he mentions that the Blazers are looking at help at PG, for all you Sergio and Bayless fans out there (ok, I kind of like Sergio but he can't shoot great.)
Even though the above can be an alarm to both Mike D'Antoni and Walsh but we can forget that we run a very different system than Portland. So, perhaps Bayless could fit in, but if Sergio doesn't learn to shoot...

Just as an option, would anyone consider moving Duhon for Bayless and ? I'm wondering if we can fit Duhon under our cap in 2010. Come to think of it getting two max free agents in 2010 is seeming harder and harder if we are to keep any talent here.

EMS


He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David
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arkrud
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1/6/2009  10:06 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by earthmansurfer:

Taken from http://www.theknicksblog.com/ (Nice article dated Jan 5, 2009 10:39 pm)
Expectations are high in Portland and the organization maybe feeling it. The team is not that high on Sergio Rodriguez as Newsday reported a while back, but it is Outlaw who they are dangling and would prefer to get back a point guard in return. They are not happy with the dividends of sending Jarrett Jack in a package for Jerryd Bayless and Ike Diogu, as it has left them depleted at the point guard position. Bayless has proven to be more of a scoring guard and that’s not what coach Nate McMillan is asking of him and that has earned Bayless plenty of bench minutes. Diogu has had trouble cracking the 10-man rotation.

I'm not sure where Tommy Dee got that information but it makes some sense. Our concern is that Bayless is more of a combo guard, not a natural PG and undersized at SG. Not to mention we have Nate in that role.

Also, he mentions that the Blazers are looking at help at PG, for all you Sergio and Bayless fans out there (ok, I kind of like Sergio but he can't shoot great.)
Even though the above can be an alarm to both Mike D'Antoni and Walsh but we can forget that we run a very different system than Portland. So, perhaps Bayless could fit in, but if Sergio doesn't learn to shoot...

Just as an option, would anyone consider moving Duhon for Bayless and ? I'm wondering if we can fit Duhon under our cap in 2010. Come to think of it getting two max free agents in 2010 is seeming harder and harder if we are to keep any talent here.

EMS


He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David

So what are you stating here - forget about it and sign Lee for smaller dollars possible for 2010...and if this is 8 or 9 mils we should be heappy.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
earthmansurfer
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1/6/2009  10:16 AM
I was thinking the same thing Briggs. Bayless could take Robinsons role at reduced dollars. Then we could move Robinson for a pick or as part of another package. As much as the fans love Robinson and Lee, I don't see us affording them. When you look at the math it's going to be hard to sign two max level free agents and the supporting cast will have to split app. 25 million or so. Luckily we have Gallo and Chandler on rookie salaries.

It seems like these rumors usually amount to nada. I don't keep up with other teams much. What other teams have those assets necessary to get Lee (E.g. - maybe a lotto pick from another team but the team acquiring Lee himself would be playoff bound and hence Lee would agree to sign an extension there? Bayless fits that bill.)

EMS
The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
TheGame
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1/6/2009  11:14 AM
Posted by earthmansurfer:

I was thinking the same thing Briggs. Bayless could take Robinsons role at reduced dollars. Then we could move Robinson for a pick or as part of another package. As much as the fans love Robinson and Lee, I don't see us affording them. When you look at the math it's going to be hard to sign two max level free agents and the supporting cast will have to split app. 25 million or so. Luckily we have Gallo and Chandler on rookie salaries.

It seems like these rumors usually amount to nada. I don't keep up with other teams much. What other teams have those assets necessary to get Lee (E.g. - maybe a lotto pick from another team but the team acquiring Lee himself would be playoff bound and hence Lee would agree to sign an extension there? Bayless fits that bill.)

EMS

I was thinking the same thing. If you could trade Lee for Frye, Bayless, and a protected 1st round pick. You then put Bayless in Nate's role and then trade Nate for a top-15 1st round pick. We then go to the draft with 3 1st round picks and we save about $8-9 million off our 2010 cap. You bring IT back to do the late round drafting (which was the one thing he was fairly decent at) and hopefully DG can get healthy be next year. If even just one of the draft picks pans out to be a solid starter, we would have a team with Chandler, Bayless, Duhon, DG, and possibly Lebron and Bosh, plus whatever we pick up in the draft. Assuming Chandler continues to develop and can play the 2 spot, we would be pretty solid at every position except C and maybe that is the position we can fill in the draft.
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Panos
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1/6/2009  2:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:



He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David


Pure Combo Guard? What the hell is that? Is that an oxymoron?
TMS
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1/6/2009  3:06 PM
i still don't see any point in trading for that kid unless we're trading Nate... we would still need a viable backup PG w/some size on the perimeter... i would much rather try to get D Jordan & Mardy Collins back from the Clips along w/maybe a 2nd round pick if we're trading D Lee... otherwise if we're trading D Lee for Bayless & Camby in that rumored deal, then i say we should look to trade Nate to the Wizards for Javaris Crittenton, Dominic McGuire & a 2nd round pick.
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1/6/2009  4:39 PM
I have a question. Do people STILL want that Sergio Rodriquez cat? For David Lee???????

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1/6/2009  5:01 PM
i was never impressed by Bayless in college. i saw him maybe 5 times. he looked horrible in the NCAA tournament. if he was the main piece in a david lee trade, i'd be a little disappointed.
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1/6/2009  5:15 PM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by BRIGGS:



He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David


Pure Combo Guard? What the hell is that? Is that an oxymoron?

That mean's a short shooting guard.
earthmansurfer
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1/6/2009  5:32 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by BRIGGS:



He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David


Pure Combo Guard? What the hell is that? Is that an oxymoron?

That mean's a short shooting guard.

He has been known to mostly be a shoot first point guard (2/1) but on occasion a pass first shooting guard (1/2).

Crzy - I think Bayless can score and he is explosive getting to the whole (but needs to work on finishing). Not sure if I'd be disappointed if he was the main piece but we have a problem. We can't afford Nate and Lee and two max free agents. We need to get creative here...


The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant. We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift. Albert Einstein
Panos
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1/6/2009  7:08 PM
Posted by VDesai:
Posted by Panos:
Posted by BRIGGS:



He's more of a pure combo guard. I think he would do very well here given a chance. He's a salary restricted player and would fit into Nate's role--giving us an opportunity to move Nate and what will be a5-6mm salary for different assets. The problem is the FULL compensation for a player of David Lee's status[and I'm going by his all star numbers since the trade of 17.5 14.2 60%] how much would it take to acquire a 25 year old all star level big man? There is no way the Knicks can let David go without a premium package that included prospects that have nice potential that are UNPROVEN and multiple picks with very little protection.

Something like Bayless Rodriguez a 2009 #1 restricted to 3 and 2010 second rounder and a 2011 #1 restricted to 3--that is what it would take to pry David


Pure Combo Guard? What the hell is that? Is that an oxymoron?

That mean's a short shooting guard.

My point is the irony in calling him a "pure" combo guard.
That's like calling a dog a purebred mutt.
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1/6/2009  7:16 PM
People on this board laughed when I said Bayless is a less dynamic version of Gilbert Arenas and that's pretty much exactly what he is
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1/6/2009  8:10 PM
Posted by sebstar:

I have a question. Do people STILL want that Sergio Rodriquez cat? For David Lee???????

I don't think anyone ever wanted JUST Sergio Rodriguez in a David Lee trade. A package of Sergio/Rudy Fernandez/Webster/Bayless in some manner would do the trick, atleast for me.
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