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If Donnie Walsh Is Paving The Road To 2010 for GM Allan Houston, Why Worry About Any Interim Moves?
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misterearl
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12/27/2008  7:11 PM
Put down The (cough) Trade Checker and step away from the vehicle.

The season has yet to reach the halfway mark. Think of this segment of the season as the opening sequence of a chess match. Walsh and D'Antoni are getting to know each other and know the players who they inherited. They will move forward with the guys who they feel can contribute. No one is safe.

The February deadline is not pending to make deals that will necessarily make the Knicks a better team, but to make deals that will change the culture - and bring in teachable players who will compete to their capacity. It is that lack of "Teachability" that earned Marbury his exile. Forget the pre season or training camp. That die was cast in his AWOL act last season - and in the unanimously negative team vote.

This season's trade to trim Zach and Jamal was the first chess move in a series of moves. There are no quick fixes.

Repeat. There are NO quick fixes. This process will require three years. Minimal.

No franchise is giving away superior talent, or draft picks, for dreck. The way one of the Knicks assets, David Lee, is playing defense his stock is not gaining in value. He is a sixth man on a championship calibre team. Period. Eddy Curry is too much of a question mark to be in demand. Even when he is healthy. Before he signed with the Knicks the Atlanta Hawks had him in town for 2 days and didn't like what they saw. and the Hawks were desperate for a center. Eddy Curry does not bring superior talent in return. So, what franchise covets Eddy Curry?

Someone proposed Jeffries going back to the Wizards, while conveniently and competely overlooking the young (tall) talent they have in the frontcourt.

This is no fantasy league where one-sided imaginary deals are consummated. There will be hits and misses, just because NO GM is perfect. It will be painful, frustrating and ihave ups and have more downs than The Cyclone - and is guaranteed to include starts and stops that will make you crazy. So, fasten your seat belts, man-up, tighten up, wipe away those tears and stop whining from game to game. Kvetching over imaginary (or rumored) 2009 trades is just a waste of time unless you are an advocate of change for the sake of change.

Walsh is engaged in a long-term chess match that will hopefully turn this franchise into a consistent winner by 2011.

This seasons preliminary moves are just to set up the major roster moves in 2010 and 2011. My sense is that Walsh was brought in with "encouragement" from David Stern to lay the foundation. He will give the Knicks 2-3 years max and then ride into the sunset. By 2011, Allan Houtson (a Dolan favorite) will have learned the ropes and really start to earn the balance of his last contract.

What me worry?
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nysportsfan11
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12/27/2008  9:36 PM
Donnie's deal is for 4 years. Unless he is terrible at the job or is no longer able to physically or mentally perform it before then, he will do all 4 years. Allan is being groomed for a number of possibilities within the organization. He might be a Dolan favorite, but if Donnie has any say, his apprenticeship will be longer than 2-3 years and he will learn under a guy like Warkentein, King, Sund, etc. first.

Donnie is also very big on his front office guys having some level of coaching experience like he did, as did King (who was an assistant with the Pacers first) and as he suggested to Mark Jackson (which is why D'Antoni ultimately got the job over him - Donnie told Mark to coach instead of commentate a long time ago). Al has made it clear he doesn't necessarily see himself coaching full time which is why most of his work now is in player development and acting as pseudo assistant.

He's not just going to be thrown to the wolves in 2 years.
misterearl
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12/27/2008  10:14 PM
nysports - I appreciate your defense of Donnie Walsh staying on the job for all 4 years of his contract but... in year 3 of his contract (2011) Donnie will be a very ripe 70 years old.

Seventy years old.

I'm not convinced the cauldron of New York City is where he wants to spend his retirement years. Me? I'd be checking cruise schedules on The Carnival Line.

Guys are paid for service all the time and I would not be surprised to see Walsh walk after year 3, that is if he wants to hang around that long.

You sound like you have an excellent grasp of Donnie Walsh's hiring history. Who is next in line for Knicks GM?



[Edited by - misterearl on 12-27-2008 10:20 PM]
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nysportsfan11
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12/27/2008  10:27 PM
Posted by misterearl:

nysports - I appreciate your defense of Donnie Walsh staying on the job for all 4 years of his contract but... in year 3 of his contract (2011) Donnie will be a very ripe 70 years old.

Seventy years old.

I'm not convinced the cauldron of New York City is where he wants to spend his retirement years. Me? I'd be checking cruise schedules on The Carnival Line.

Guys are paid for service all the time and I would not be surprised to see Walsh walk after year 3, that is if he wants to hang around that long.

You sound like you know Donnie Walsh intimately. Who is next in line for Knicks GM?

Donnie's not an old 67 by any means. Bringing his hometown team back to respectability is exactly how he wants to spend his retirement years. Donnie breathes basketball, specifically all levels of NY basketball. He's an old school basketball lifer just like his buddy Ben Jobe. Other than his physical and mental health, which I've already accounted for, his ability to spend more time in with his wife and his ability to hire a GM so that he doesn't have to do the heavy contractual lifting will be key in him staying all 4 years. The latter will happen, which makes the former very likely.

He's doing way more at MSG than sitting around on the trade checker all day. He and Scott O'Neill have been given the responsibility of changing the entire culture over there, not just player personnel. Donnie is not a leave after year 3 kind of guy. The next GM will depend on who's available after this year. He's got plenty of options since most execs around the league would love nothing more than to work for Donnie (or Colangelo).
nyk4ever
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12/28/2008  12:23 AM
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by misterearl:

nysports - I appreciate your defense of Donnie Walsh staying on the job for all 4 years of his contract but... in year 3 of his contract (2011) Donnie will be a very ripe 70 years old.

Seventy years old.

I'm not convinced the cauldron of New York City is where he wants to spend his retirement years. Me? I'd be checking cruise schedules on The Carnival Line.

Guys are paid for service all the time and I would not be surprised to see Walsh walk after year 3, that is if he wants to hang around that long.

You sound like you know Donnie Walsh intimately. Who is next in line for Knicks GM?

Donnie's not an old 67 by any means. Bringing his hometown team back to respectability is exactly how he wants to spend his retirement years. Donnie breathes basketball, specifically all levels of NY basketball. He's an old school basketball lifer just like his buddy Ben Jobe. Other than his physical and mental health, which I've already accounted for, his ability to spend more time in with his wife and his ability to hire a GM so that he doesn't have to do the heavy contractual lifting will be key in him staying all 4 years. The latter will happen, which makes the former very likely.

He's doing way more at MSG than sitting around on the trade checker all day. He and Scott O'Neill have been given the responsibility of changing the entire culture over there, not just player personnel. Donnie is not a leave after year 3 kind of guy. The next GM will depend on who's available after this year. He's got plenty of options since most execs around the league would love nothing more than to work for Donnie (or Colangelo).

11, I've said it many times, but I'll say it again. Your level of posting and the information that you provide for us is very much appreciated and extremely informative - it's always cool to have a take like you have on the forum with us. The same goes for King1.

I'm curious. Out of all the possibilities for that GM spot, who do you think will land it?
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
misterearl
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12/28/2008  12:43 AM
2011 A Space Odyssey

nysportsfan - anyone who invokes the name of Ben Jobe is worthy of an additional layer of respect. The afternoon he defeated his buddy Bobby Cremins and Georgia Tech was a bright moment in a brilliant career that should have garnered more calls from NBA decision makers.

One of the Knicks historic problems has been lack of continuity in the front office. I'm still not over John McLeod and Al Bianchi. Personally, I hope that Donnie Walsh stays for the length of his contract, and beyond, as President of Basktball Ops. - or in any role he desires.

It is curious to watch the amateur GMs second-guess his strategy as if they hold the actual answers (or advantage from behind a keyboard) for the actual execution of their wet dreams. Certainly, it is fun to speculate on plugging in one guy, or the other guy, and solving the riddle of the championship holy grail. But as a wise man once said, "it may look good on paper - but the games are not played on paper"

My kingdom for a center with a defensive personality and an enforcer forward who enjoys collisions.



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Bippity10
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12/28/2008  10:03 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by misterearl:

nysports - I appreciate your defense of Donnie Walsh staying on the job for all 4 years of his contract but... in year 3 of his contract (2011) Donnie will be a very ripe 70 years old.

Seventy years old.

I'm not convinced the cauldron of New York City is where he wants to spend his retirement years. Me? I'd be checking cruise schedules on The Carnival Line.

Guys are paid for service all the time and I would not be surprised to see Walsh walk after year 3, that is if he wants to hang around that long.

You sound like you know Donnie Walsh intimately. Who is next in line for Knicks GM?

Donnie's not an old 67 by any means. Bringing his hometown team back to respectability is exactly how he wants to spend his retirement years. Donnie breathes basketball, specifically all levels of NY basketball. He's an old school basketball lifer just like his buddy Ben Jobe. Other than his physical and mental health, which I've already accounted for, his ability to spend more time in with his wife and his ability to hire a GM so that he doesn't have to do the heavy contractual lifting will be key in him staying all 4 years. The latter will happen, which makes the former very likely.

He's doing way more at MSG than sitting around on the trade checker all day. He and Scott O'Neill have been given the responsibility of changing the entire culture over there, not just player personnel. Donnie is not a leave after year 3 kind of guy. The next GM will depend on who's available after this year. He's got plenty of options since most execs around the league would love nothing more than to work for Donnie (or Colangelo).

11, I've said it many times, but I'll say it again. Your level of posting and the information that you provide for us is very much appreciated and extremely informative - it's always cool to have a take like you have on the forum with us. The same goes for King1.

I'm curious. Out of all the possibilities for that GM spot, who do you think will land it?

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Bippity10
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12/28/2008  10:03 AM
Earl/Sportsfan: Good thread. Wish I could add something.
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Hoopsmeister
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12/28/2008  3:47 PM
LOL, another fantasy thread, from someone who has too much time on his hands, Houston will not be GM in 2010 or anytime, he doesn't have the desire to be a GM or ability to be GM.
misterearl
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12/28/2008  6:28 PM
Hoopmeister - Allan Houston has as much "ability" to be a General Manager as Danny Ainge, Joe Dumars, Dave DeBusschere, Willis Reed or Al Bianchi. The job requirements are not written in stone, nor are they the domain of the guys who fit your stereotypical pedigree.

I would also submit the mercurial career path of Jeff Van Gundy as a prime example of how a guy can receive an opportunity and build on it.

Unless you have had a conversation with Mr Houston, whatever "desire" he has, or doesn't have, is nothing more your interpretation of a third hand account.

Like I was sayin', There are NO quick fixes. The Knicks gradual process of change, on the road to becoming a consistent winner, will require three years worth of careful navigation. It will not be pretty or always entertaining.

What type of "fantasy" is that?





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Allanfan20
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12/29/2008  3:50 PM
Unless someone on this board (Maybe nysportsfan11, but who knows) actually knows Allan personally, I don't think anyone has any clue whatsoever if he's a good candidate to be a GM, nor do they know if he has the desire.

It appears Donnie is grooming Allan to be A manager, and that's it so far. We know nothing else. For all we know, he may want Mark Jackson to be the next GM instead.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
misterearl
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12/29/2008  4:37 PM
Allanfan - thank you

Mark Jackson is gaining valuable experience and exposure studying the league on a daily basis. The amount of behind the scenes research that is invested into a broadcast is staggering. Those two factors would be a huge plus when it comes time to deal with free agents.

The college scouts can handle prioritizing the draft choices.

Bernard King can scout the SEC.
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Allanfan20
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12/29/2008  4:40 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Allanfan - thank you

Mark Jackson is gaining valuable experience and exposure studying the league on a daily basis. The amount of behind the scenes research that is invested into a broadcast is staggering. Those two factors would be a huge plus when it comes time to deal with free agents.

The college scouts can handle prioritizing the draft choices.

Bernard King can scout the SEC.

Isiah spent a little time broadcasting too. Clearly that means he's probably a good GM candidate.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
BlueSeats
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12/29/2008  5:04 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Mark Jackson is gaining valuable experience and exposure studying the league on a daily basis. The amount of behind the scenes research that is invested into a broadcast is staggering. Those two factors would be a huge plus when it comes time to deal with free agents.

Yeah, it's almost as valuable as using the trade checker on realgm.
misterearl
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12/29/2008  6:21 PM
Allanfan - Tommy Heinsohn is a broadcaster and yet I would never advocate the hiring of that SOB

Then again, Marv Albert might make one helluva GM

I miss Ernie Grunfeld and Marvin Webster

[Edited by - misterearl on 12-29-2008 6:25 PM]
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TheGame
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12/29/2008  6:45 PM
Lee is the key to our rebuilding IMO. He has the most trade value of our young players. Do we resign him or do we sign and trade him or do we trade him before the February deadline? Walsh has got to get full value for Lee if we are going to move forward. I think we resign Nate for 2 reasons. First, he is probably our best perimeter scorer. Second, we can probably resign him for cheap relatively speaking. A full MLE deal should do it. If we really want to be under the cap in 2010, I think we have to trade Lee for a younger prospect and maybe a pick. A trade of Darrell Arthur and a protected 1st round pick for Lee sounds good to me.
Trust the Process
misterearl
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12/29/2008  7:07 PM
TheGame - David Lee's value around the league will not be determined by the opinions of New Yorkers. Full value is a moving target these days, especially as his defense has been exposed. He is not strong enough to body up against big forwards like Leon Powe and too slow to catch the new breed of 6'11 types built like Garnett.

What draft picks or talent is an NBA team willing to part with for a sixth man?

Bring me the active skill-set of Chris Wilcox!
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TheGame
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12/29/2008  9:22 PM
Posted by misterearl:

TheGame - David Lee's value around the league will not be determined by the opinions of New Yorkers. Full value is a moving target these days, especially as his defense has been exposed. He is not strong enough to body up against big forwards like Leon Powe and too slow to catch the new breed of 6'11 types built like Garnett.

What draft picks or talent is an NBA team willing to part with for a sixth man?

Bring me the active skill-set of Chris Wilcox!

I don't disagree that his value has taken a hit. But the guy is still a double-double every time he gets at least 30 minutes. He has value and we should get the most for him. He is going to demand $9-$10 mill. So we either pay him, wait him out and let the market determine his value, or trade him now. We probably could have gotten more for him in November, but I don't think his value has hit the floor. The guy is still a skilled PF. The bottomline though is that Walsh's decision regarding Lee will be a big part of our rebuilding effort one way or the other.
Trust the Process
Nalod
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12/29/2008  10:18 PM
It think the fan public really has a hard time with who does a good job, and whose a good owner. Clearly Debusschre was not a great GM, and only lasted a year into the Ewing era. Even the great Eddie Donovan who built the great Knick team, then bolted for money to Buffalo, got McAdoo and Randy Smith together, but then drafted Earnie DeGregorio and was run out of town. Granted, John Y. Brown I think owned the team. Eddie then came back to NY and built an awful team. Even bought back Red who could not coach the Great Ray Williams.

What made Isiah even think he could do it? Being an anouncer gives you insight of hindsight but no predictor of anything than entertaining.

Maybe its guys Like Kikki Vande who gets his ass kick and learns from mistakes to grow into the job. Kupchack grew under Jerry west and is perhaps the best out there.

If allan has the desire and the intellegence, then thats cool. But desire is tought when your worth 100plus million. I forever wonder would Layden could have done with the freedom to rebuild without his owner bitchslapping him with impatience.
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12/29/2008  10:25 PM
Posted by Nalod:

I forever wonder would Layden could have done with the freedom to rebuild without his owner bitchslapping him with impatience.

Listen to your inner Nedyal. He knows.
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