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Duhon is not busy enough......reason why the Knicks have slumped
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EnySpree
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12/27/2008  7:05 PM
Yeah so I'm basically tying this to Duhon's recent terrible play. the offense has been stagnant and guys have been trying to create their own offense.

Yeah so like I been saying, Duhon just isn't busy enough. when he had that 22 assist game and the rather mortal game he had last night (regardless of the stitches)....he has been the same player. Not really doing much but taking what the defense gives him. So when teams are onto him, he is ineffective cuz he's just isn't a creator.

Also on defense he constantly gets torched. Telflair hit him with 20 and 8 and simply ran the offense great for his team without much resistance.

Knicks need a busier player at point guard.....I would look to replace duhon asap. Felton is a guy I keep looking at. He needs to be put in an offense where he can open up and go. It don't have to be Felton either. It just has to be a busier player.

Basically, make stuff happen rather than let stuff happen.
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TMS
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12/27/2008  7:11 PM
i think he's worn out from all those minutes he's been playing.
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Knicksfan
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12/27/2008  7:20 PM
Posted by TMS:

i think he's worn out from all those minutes he's been playing.

like most of the team


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TMS
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12/27/2008  7:28 PM
Duhon's something like 2nd in the NBA in minutes played, it had to catch up to him sooner or later... he's never had to log this many minutes in his entire career... i don't think we should be looking to replace this guy, he's been the best PG we've had for a long time now... i think what we need to be doing is looking for a capable backup PG w/some size that can defend guys on the perimeter so we can allow Nate to do what he does best & be that scoring energizer off the bench... we really should be looking to acquire someone like Javaris Crittenton.
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EnySpree
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12/27/2008  7:29 PM
And the grind of the 82 game season isn't wearing out the rest of the league?
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TMS
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12/27/2008  7:30 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

And the grind of the 82 game season isn't wearing out the rest of the league?

most teams haven't had to play 7 man rotations on most nights the way the Knicks have... u had to expect a letdown in their energy level sooner or later.
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CrushAlot
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12/27/2008  7:34 PM
He has played a ton of minutes. He needed nine stitches last night and he still was put back in. It is December and the team is probably lottery bound. I think he is worn down.
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Cosmic
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12/27/2008  7:49 PM 

player		0809 mpg	0708 mpg	change

nate		30.9		26.2		+4.7
lee		33.4		29.1		+4.3
chandler	33.4		19.6		+13.8
qbrick		31.6		28.3		+3.3
duhon		38.5		22.6		+15.9
harrington	37.5		27.0		+10.5
tim		23.6		30.8		-7.2
effries		20.1		18.2		+1.9


Some pretty big jumps in there.
Moreso Harrington and Chandler have fallen apart offensively.
The team has also stopped playing hard since the Laker defeat.
The schedule also got a lot tougher since we were 6-5.

There's a number of things going on here including increased minutes.
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EnySpree
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12/27/2008  8:00 PM
I thought Duhon just hasn't been doing never gets tired?

I think its a liittle deeper than fatigue. The knicks need a guy that when the offense isn't working he can improvise and make it work. When the Knicks need those plays its been Al Harrington forcing drives to the hole. Knicks need the point guard to create. Duhon simply can't do it.
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Elite
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12/27/2008  8:05 PM
duhan has sucked lately, dunno if hes worn out or hurt or what but yeah... hes not the same player he was a month ago
EnySpree
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12/27/2008  8:07 PM
You guys want warriors then give guys outs for minutes?

I dunno guys.....what about his game play? About being busy? The guy can't create. Against minnesota there were times where Sab broke the play and took it inside and created offense. Duhon simply does not do that at all.
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TMS
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12/27/2008  8:14 PM
i saw Nate forcing up shots too & not creating for others... the entire team just looked lethargic & there was no flow or pace to the game like they usually play with... i really think it has a lot to do w/fatigue... there was none of this talk that Duhon couldn't create for others when he was putting up double digit assist games.. he had a 20 & 10 game vs. BOS the game before against the best defensive team in the NBA.
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GKFv2
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12/27/2008  8:20 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Yeah so I'm basically tying this to Duhon's recent terrible play. the offense has been stagnant and guys have been trying to create their own offense.

Yeah so like I been saying, Duhon just isn't busy enough. when he had that 22 assist game and the rather mortal game he had last night (regardless of the stitches)....he has been the same player. Not really doing much but taking what the defense gives him. So when teams are onto him, he is ineffective cuz he's just isn't a creator.

Also on defense he constantly gets torched. Telflair hit him with 20 and 8 and simply ran the offense great for his team without much resistance.

Knicks need a busier player at point guard.....I would look to replace duhon asap. Felton is a guy I keep looking at. He needs to be put in an offense where he can open up and go. It don't have to be Felton either. It just has to be a busier player.

Basically, make stuff happen rather than let stuff happen.

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EnySpree
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12/27/2008  8:51 PM
Posted by TMS:

i saw Nate forcing up shots too & not creating for others... the entire team just looked lethargic & there was no flow or pace to the game like they usually play with... i really think it has a lot to do w/fatigue... there was none of this talk that Duhon couldn't create for others when he was putting up double digit assist games.. he had a 20 & 10 game vs. BOS the game before against the best defensive team in the NBA.

Duhon can run an offense but when the other team is defending well....nothing happens. He can't improvise. If the opposing team isn't defending...if the play is pick and roll like when duhon was feeding Lee all day it works.

Could it be teams scouting is starting to catch up? I'm totally not buying the whole fatigue thing.
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Finestrg
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12/27/2008  9:37 PM
Posted by TMS:

i think he's worn out from all those minutes he's been playing.

I agree somewhat, although I think he still passes up way too many open shots that come in rhythm. Despite people always saying he couldn't shoot, I actually like his stroke from deep a lot, always did. I wish he was more aggressive looking for his own offense. I think he over passes the ball.
nysportsfan11
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12/27/2008  9:50 PM
Posted by EnySpree:

Could it be teams scouting is starting to catch up? I'm totally not buying the whole fatigue thing.

Pretty much.

Scouting is done over time. By December/January advance scouts have seen everyone which is why this is always the time of year when guys taking advantage of new situations start coming back to earth in this league. His problem is, he's now being scouted as a starter in D'Antoni's system as opposed to a backup in Scott Skiles'. The league has adjusted, now Du has to adjust, as do the rest of the Knicks who are in the same predicament.
TMS
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12/27/2008  10:03 PM
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by TMS:

i saw Nate forcing up shots too & not creating for others... the entire team just looked lethargic & there was no flow or pace to the game like they usually play with... i really think it has a lot to do w/fatigue... there was none of this talk that Duhon couldn't create for others when he was putting up double digit assist games.. he had a 20 & 10 game vs. BOS the game before against the best defensive team in the NBA.

Duhon can run an offense but when the other team is defending well....nothing happens. He can't improvise. If the opposing team isn't defending...if the play is pick and roll like when duhon was feeding Lee all day it works.

Could it be teams scouting is starting to catch up? I'm totally not buying the whole fatigue thing.

i agree, i'm sure other teams are starting to adjust too... there's plenty of factors at work here but i don't think Duhon is necessarily the problem... the whole team is beginning to revert back to going 1 on 1 & there isn't the same crisp movement w/o the ball & sharp cuts to the basket that i was seeing in earlier games this season... one news story i read said MDA had to call a timeout 9 seconds into the 4th quarter the other night cuz the team had completely forgotten what defense he drew up for them to play already... that just seems to point to an overall lack of focus & that could very well be a direct result of fatigue in these players who have been logging big minutes all year... this team just needs to regain their confidence in each other & they could get back to playing the more team oriented style we were enjoying for most of the season... really, that's the only thing we should care about this season... Wins & Losses are completely secondary in the big picture for this season.
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McK1
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12/28/2008  10:17 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Yeah so I'm basically tying this to Duhon's recent terrible play. the offense has been stagnant and guys have been trying to create their own offense.

said this in the Chandler thread. Duhon sucks at running the offense
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Cosmic
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12/28/2008  11:38 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

I thought Duhon just hasn't been doing never gets tired?

I think its a liittle deeper than fatigue. The knicks need a guy that when the offense isn't working he can improvise and make it work. When the Knicks need those plays its been Al Harrington forcing drives to the hole. Knicks need the point guard to create. Duhon simply can't do it.


You could be right but this team as a whole has looked like trash since they came home from the 5 game road trip. They have been an entirely different team since they fell short in the Laker game. It's like they gave up since then. Now they're just going through the motions.

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DarkKnicks
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12/28/2008  1:02 PM
I think it is way more simple than that. Duhon is an ok/good player who played way better than he is for many games. Now he is struggling a bit, but an "average" Duhon is probably not as good as what we saw in the first month. That being said, I cant say anything bad about him. He was never a very talented nor imaginative player in my opinion, he is just ok/good and smart, and has been playing out of his mind and adjusting very well to D'Antoni system. We just have to accept the real Duhon is not a 16ppg, 5rpg, 9apg, 2 spg player. Definately not.
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