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Cos: Benching Marbury "has galvanized the locker room."
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martin
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11/20/2008  11:35 AM
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2008/11/19/2008-11-19_knicks_improved_play_gets_praise.html
You can already sense that Knicks president Donnie Walsh and head coach Mike D'Antoni are changing the culture. One Eastern Conference general manager cited D'Antoni's decision not to play Stephon Marbury and said that the controversial move "has galvanized the locker room."

Opponents have noticed a change in the team's demeanor as well. On Tuesday, the Knicks made an impression on the Celtics that had nothing to do with verbal threats and/or intimidation.

Doesn't seem like pangs of a distracted looker room
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Cosmic
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11/20/2008  11:54 AM
Okay, so....this is a more believable source over any other source or any one person's opinion how? (this is kinda what I mean about the media).

Now, while I will agree these guys are likely happy not having to play with him on the court, I still maintain that while Marbury is here his black cloud is still here and I find it hard to believe everyone is able to pretend he doesn't exist. I'd believe it if he were sitting at home awaiting a resolution (which he should be) but when he's still here I can't see how his presence can be ignored.

I've noticed in the past the only player that seems willing to sit near him or talk to him during timeouts or warmups - is Roberson. Nobody else wants anything to do with him. Now, I'm not saying the team is in upheaval over his being here but I am maintaining that his existence is a negative one and you just can't ignore it all.

And, again, isn't that kind of a pain in the ass? *Ah, Marbury is sitting there, okay, I'll make sure to go sit over here instead!*

????

Anyways, it's bound to be resolved soon. Hahn, a writer you give credit to (yes, I'm stirring the pot, LOL ), has piped up today:
As the Knicks try to distance themselves from their laughingstock days, one tragicomedy continues to engage the NBA. The latest in the "Free Starbury" movement comes from the Celtics' Sam Cassell, who said the Knicks' decision to keep Stephon Marbury inactive is "bad for the league."

"They really need to get that thing resolved," Cassell said Tuesday night before the Knicks' 110-101 loss to the Celtics in Boston. "It doesn't look good for both parties. Steph wants to play and he's better than the guys playing ahead of him. I don't understand it."

Cassell, however, does understand the buyout process. Last season he forfeited half of his salary ($850,000) to be set free by the Clippers so he would be allowed to sign with the Celtics. He went on to win his third NBA championship ring.

Marbury, who hasn't played this season, doesn't have that kind of situation available to him. Unlike Cassell, who had superagent David Falk, Marbury doesn't have an agent. The NBA players association is assisting him in buyout talks with Knicks president Donnie Walsh. Marbury and a union representative met with Walsh a week ago at the MSG Training Center to open discussions. But unlike Cassell, Marbury maintained his stance that he will not give up any of his $21.9-million salary.


The Knicks, said a person with knowledge of the situation, initially considered offering a $15-million settlement to set Marbury free. The sides have not met since. "They need to keep talking and get something done," Cassell said. (The Knicks are owned by Cablevision, Newsday's parent company).

Cassell left the Clippers knowing he was stepping into a special situation. But for Marbury, the opportunities might not be as bountiful or as plentiful. Mavericks owner Mark Cuban said he is a Marbury fan, but a person close to the situation said it would be surprising if Dallas added him to a roster that has Jason Kidd.

Some NBA executives say the Heat, who are shallow at point guard, would seem to be a perfect destination for Marbury. But others wonder if the Heat - like any team - has concerns about adding Marbury to its locker room.

Who will blink first? Will Marbury forfeit some salary to get back on the court, or will the Knicks, if they fall under .500, turn to him for help?

An NBA coach told Newsday that after committing to moving on without Marbury, Mike D'Antoni "can't turn back now."

Notes & quotes: The Mavericks' Jerry Stackhouse took a swipe at a few Knicks when he reacted to Rick Carlisle's decision to sit him for matchup reasons Sunday in Dallas' overtime win at the Garden. Stackhouse told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram that Jamal Crawford, Quentin Richardson and Wilson Chandler are "scared to guard me" in summer pickup games.


Link


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martin
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11/20/2008  12:09 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Okay, so....this is a more believable source over any other source or any one person's opinion how? (this is kinda what I mean about the media).

I guess there are two things here. One, there is a big difference between what and how and how reliable Berman writes and how and what and how reliable Hahn writes. And secondly, I don't EVER remember Berman writing anything but what HE feels the Knicks and Marbury are feeling and doing, and we all know he needs a flashlight to find his way out of Marbury's ass. Hahn is quoting a GM from another team.
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Knicksfan
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11/20/2008  12:10 PM
"They really need to get that thing resolved," Cassell said Tuesday night before the Knicks' 110-101 loss to the Celtics in Boston. "It doesn't look good for both parties. Steph wants to play and he's better than the guys playing ahead of him. I don't understand it."

Exactly, Cassell, you don't understand it so don't talk about it. You don't get it if you say he's better than the guys playing ahead of him because its evident to the entire league that this isn't about his talent but his effect on the whole team because the Knicks wouldn't be playing so well as a team with him on the court.
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martin
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11/20/2008  12:11 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

Hahn, a writer you give credit to (yes, I'm stirring the pot, LOL ), has piped up today:

I haven't given credit to any writer, but I have tried to tell you that there is a difference between the different writers.
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SupremeCommander
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11/20/2008  12:13 PM
Look, I know people hate MArbury and want him gone... but making an example out of a guy EVERYONE hates because of how entitled he is makes sense to me
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martin
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11/20/2008  12:14 PM
Posted by Cosmic:


Now, while I will agree these guys are likely happy not having to play with him on the court, I still maintain that while Marbury is here his black cloud is still here and I find it hard to believe everyone is able to pretend he doesn't exist. I'd believe it if he were sitting at home awaiting a resolution (which he should be) but when he's still here I can't see how his presence can be ignored.

I've noticed in the past the only player that seems willing to sit near him or talk to him during timeouts or warmups - is Roberson. Nobody else wants anything to do with him. Now, I'm not saying the team is in upheaval over his being here but I am maintaining that his existence is a negative one and you just can't ignore it all.

And, again, isn't that kind of a pain in the ass? *Ah, Marbury is sitting there, okay, I'll make sure to go sit over here instead!*

This is very different from your argument that Marbury is having a profound (my words) negative effect on the players and team, which is a LOT different from what you are suggesting above.

Is the Marbury situation distracting to the players and team in some manner? Sure. Is it really too much for the players/team to ignore overcome? No.
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Cosmic
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11/20/2008  12:30 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:

Hahn, a writer you give credit to (yes, I'm stirring the pot, LOL ), has piped up today:

I haven't given credit to any writer, but I have tried to tell you that there is a difference between the different writers.

I know there's a difference I was just trying to say that none of them can be taken as the gospel. All of them put a twist on what they're writing about and most fill in the blanks while doing so. I don't find any of them 100% credible, hell, not 80% credible. Some are worse than others... Berman, Vecsey. Some are better than others, Hahn, Beck. Yet, they all share a common problem: They're journalists not fact writers and while you might be inclined to believe one reporter over another because his piece fits your point of view better it doesn't validate anything they've said as 100% fact in either case.

I will tell you one writer I do enjoy: Shaun Powell. Seems like the most unbiased guy out there - agendaless - opinionless for the most part. Look up his articles if you have the time.



...in any event, even our debate over this, somewhat underscores my point on the Marbury situation: It is a distraction - to what level is of anyones opinion - and it would be best if it went away - and it won't until HE goes away - so the Knicks need to get off their ass and make this work.

One tidbit: Walsh is slow. He drags his feet. I remember that it took him FOREVER to resolve the Artest situation and that hung over the Pacers until it was resolved even though Ron was sent home - his presence and the situation was far reaching throughout the organization until he was GONE.

Same thing here.

If it wasn't a nuisance or a distraction nobody would be talking about it in any capacity. It'd be a non-story. Yet, it is, why? 'cause it's a distraction!

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Cosmic
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11/20/2008  12:32 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:


Now, while I will agree these guys are likely happy not having to play with him on the court, I still maintain that while Marbury is here his black cloud is still here and I find it hard to believe everyone is able to pretend he doesn't exist. I'd believe it if he were sitting at home awaiting a resolution (which he should be) but when he's still here I can't see how his presence can be ignored.

I've noticed in the past the only player that seems willing to sit near him or talk to him during timeouts or warmups - is Roberson. Nobody else wants anything to do with him. Now, I'm not saying the team is in upheaval over his being here but I am maintaining that his existence is a negative one and you just can't ignore it all.

And, again, isn't that kind of a pain in the ass? *Ah, Marbury is sitting there, okay, I'll make sure to go sit over here instead!*

This is very different from your argument that Marbury is having a profound (my words) negative effect on the players and team, which is a LOT different from what you are suggesting above.

Is the Marbury situation distracting to the players and team in some manner? Sure. Is it really too much for the players/team to ignore overcome? No.

I think he's a negative on the entire situation. I don't recall saying he was causing them to play poorly or fight amongst themselves. Yet, he's here, he's a hot topic, he's with them all the time from practice to the locker room, to warmups, to sitting on the bench. He's here. He's a negative influence even if he's been shut out.

If your most hated fellow employee at work suddenly croaks and is shoved in the broom closet - you can claim it's no distraction because you don't bump into him anymore - but don't fool yourself that corpse still stinks and you're still going to wonder when it's going to be disposed of.

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11/20/2008  12:58 PM
One tidbit: Walsh is slow. He drags his feet. I remember that it took him FOREVER to resolve the Artest situation and that hung over the Pacers until it was resolved even though Ron was sent home - his presence and the situation was far reaching throughout the organization until he was GONE.

Same thing here.

I guess you could say that Walsh doesn't have a history of buyouts. You might even say that he has a distaste for them. Maybe Marbury expects 'special' treatment. Walsh is from a different generation than Marbury, one that was predicated on respect...something that neither Marbury or Berman have yet to prove that they know anything about.
Cosmic
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11/20/2008  1:29 PM
Posted by Rookie:
One tidbit: Walsh is slow. He drags his feet. I remember that it took him FOREVER to resolve the Artest situation and that hung over the Pacers until it was resolved even though Ron was sent home - his presence and the situation was far reaching throughout the organization until he was GONE.

Same thing here.

I guess you could say that Walsh doesn't have a history of buyouts. You might even say that he has a distaste for them. Maybe Marbury expects 'special' treatment. Walsh is from a different generation than Marbury, one that was predicated on respect...something that neither Marbury or Berman have yet to prove that they know anything about.

I don't mind that Walsh is patient and does not want to "waste" a contract - especially when a team is over the cap and when you waive that player you are still over the cap and you lost that added flexibility.

I understand that Marbury and a lot of players through the "2000s" have witnessed their collegues get bought out and allowed to go elsewhere when things did not go right - so - I don't expect him to be patient on his end.

I think Walsh to a fault can be too patient - there as some situations that you are better off moving on right away - and I feel Marbury and his 22M salary can only HURT us if we try to trade it - and dragging this on (regardless of why it's dragged on) has been more harmful than helpful - and I don't see any vindication on the Knicks part, Dolan's part, Isiah's part, etc, for "putting a player in his place" if you will.

As to Marbury and Berman it is obvious that they have a relationship.



And that Berman is his mouthpiece, obviously not verbatim cause who can understand that gibberish, yet I think he merely echoes Marbury's sentiment. So to me Berman's writings aren't to be necessarily discredited, nor to be taken seriously because Marbury is a crackhead, YET they are the thoughts of the player we need to move away from, so I don't think you can just plain discount them.

They're real, they're part of the problem, and in a way Marbury "gets away with behaving" by allowing Berman to echo his opinion on the situation.


In the end I think everyone would be, or should be, inclined to agree that this situation needs to be resolved sooner than later. What level of distraction it's posed to the success of the season is the "real" debate in these threads. Yet, I still maintain it's more of a problem than the players or management want to let on. I think you can logically conclude it is a festering sore that bothers everyone that is involved with the team and franchise. To what degree, again, I'm not so sure, but I do speculate it's more than (you guys) seem to think it is.

What else to say? I dunno... this sucks lol? Please can we end the Marbury era?

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11/20/2008  1:34 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

the Knicks wouldn't be playing so well as a team with him on the court.

the pre-season play of the Knicks does not support this statement
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11/20/2008  1:38 PM
Cosmic
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11/20/2008  1:44 PM
Posted by Rookie:


Who am I supposed to be? The wise old man? Or the kid getting his ass kicked?
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Rookie
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11/20/2008  1:48 PM
Funny, I was thinking Walsh as the wise old master and Marbury as the young student. Either way, I love those old Kunf Fu flashbacks.
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11/20/2008  1:49 PM
The leader of a team that averaged 26 wins over the past few years should not be getting this much attention. Who cares about Stephon Marbury. Hopefully he can find success. Somewhere else!!!
I just hope that people will like me
Cosmic
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11/20/2008  1:51 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

The leader of a team that averaged 26 wins over the past few years should not be getting this much attention. Who cares about Stephon Marbury. Hopefully he can find success. Somewhere else!!!

I thought Crawful was the leader of the team since the 0405 season began? Pretty sure he was.... Marbury led us for about 4 months taking Layden's players to the playoffs under Lenny Wilkens before Isiah fell in love with Crawful over that following summer. Think about it!!!!

I'm not trying to liberate Knuckleheadbury or anything but facts are facts. He hasn't been "in our plans" since that summer long ago...if you REALLY think about it!



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Cosmic
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11/20/2008  1:52 PM
Posted by Rookie:

Funny, I was thinking Walsh as the wise old master and Marbury as the young student. Either way, I love those old Kunf Fu flashbacks.

Yeah, they're awesome.
If I'm flipping channels and one comes up I watch.
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11/20/2008  1:56 PM
Hey Bip,

no trade rumors today, we got bitch slapped by the champs, our schedule s getting tougher and the only thing we got to look forward to is the return of Jared Jeffries, Eddy Curry and will Galinari ever find a doctor he doesn't like. What else we got to talk about?
Cosmic
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11/20/2008  2:04 PM
Posted by Rookie:

Hey Bip,

no trade rumors today, we got bitch slapped by the champs, our schedule s getting tougher and the only thing we got to look forward to is the return of Jared Jeffries, Eddy Curry and will Galinari ever find a doctor he doesn't like. What else we got to talk about?

Demetris Nichols got waived by the Bulls.
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