Posted by gr33d:

We have zero post defense/shotblocking (literally) and our most consistant playmaker/scorer is on the bench (not that I disagree).

That said... We're 3 games into a season where most of us would like to see player development as a priority. Winning is really an afterthought

Well the defense is a given but I noticed the bigger problem is actually that other teams are indeed able to stop our offense with just a decent effort to slow the game down and to stop dribble penetration. Once you stagnate this team all they know to do is to and1-chuck their way through a game and we know how that ends up.

Miami couldn't and that's why we looked so good at least until we ran out of gas.

See, I don't think there's any big mystery here, some feel we played great against Miami and are confused why the "old knicks" showed up for the past two games - as if it's an abberation or could be cured with some tough practices. I don't think that's the case because when we face teams who can play defense - it doesn't take much defense - to force the Knicks out of rythm and into their old habits.

They don't know how to bail themselves out once their primary offensive game plan is stopped.

To me, the sum of the 3-4 preseason and the 1-2 reg season start just echoes that very simple situation.

No great mystery IMO - nothing strange went on in the Bucks or Sixers game - you know like the team not trying - it's just once that primary gunning offense is stopped - they only know to fall back onto that 1-1 dribble dribble chuck me-first offense.

Posted by Anji:

I personally don't think MikeD is running the offense he used in Phoenix. The fastbreak isn't even the same. I think we are using a really watered down version of MikeD's princeablies.

This helter skelter system we are running seems to be dependent on the other teams willingness to play at the knicks tempo. SO yes, if any team decides to slow it down on the knicks, it's hard to keep up.

That was down to be a must though given it's not the same roster of thoroughbreds. I had a feeling we'd see a variation of the Phoenix offense not a duplicate for we just don't have the shooters nor the consistent high IQ willing - and able to - share - at all positions that Phoenix had. Even our willing players aren't exactly able to share at the lightning quick rate that the Suns roster was able to.

So it's a variation but the foundation/principles are the same.

All in all what I'm trying to do is reason why we're 1-2 and got blown out twice - it's not that we fell off of some cliff - it's just that this offense isn't a smart team of players - they don't know how to improvise - so if they face a team like Miami that doesn't focus on disrupting them - then they can freely run and gun and will get those open shots and look good. Yet, when you face a team willing to make it their defensive focus to stop penetration, confuse the offensive players, stop transition buckets - once that's done - the Knick roster isn't smart enough, isn't clever enough, to adapt. Then the offense collapses, the shot clock runs down, and one player gets "stuck" with the ball and has to resort to creating for himself of which with this team is a rare penetration to the hoop and usually just a dribble trick followed by a deep jump shot.

I expect that to be the norm - so what I'm trying to do - is reason that there's no huge mystery or surprise in any of the first three games - in fact I think we're getting an instant picture into the season.

Teams that D us up and are hitting their shots = we're done no question about it.

Teams that D us up but have a bad night shooting = a close but hard to watch game.

Teams that don't or can't D us up and we are hitting our shots = we're going to roll.

Teams that don't or can't D us up and we're both hitting our shots = high scoring close game fun to watch.


...it may sound cliche "hit your shots you do well" but it's a little more advanced than that. Yet, it's not a mystery.

Given the roster, the overall IQ, the overall passing skills and decision making ... this is what we will get until there are wholesale changes.

There shouldn't be any "But we looked good in PS and in the Miami game WHY did we get torched by Philly and MIL back to back? What's wrong with them? Why didn't they play better. NEXT time it'll be different. It was just an off night by us. There's a distraction or something. I don't get it. We were good and then POOF."

See, that form of fan reaction - just doesn't have any merit to it.

Just kinda a point I'm trying to make based off on putting some observations together. If anything this point should calm some people down whose either playoff aspirations have dissolved, or think the team isnt putting forth the effort, or think DAntoni is purposely tanking, etc - you know - any explanation to justify "loosing when we shouldnt be cause were better than that."

Fact is, we're not it's just this system will appear to make you much better when you face a team that can't stop it. A team like the Suns roster was smart so it was much tougher for teams to stop them. Knicks roster is pretty dumb across the board so teams will have an easier time stopping it.


Alright, I think I got everything in there I wanted to say lol.

On with torching the BoobKittens on Wednesday and the return of "see, I told you guys, stop panicing, we're going to be good, mike figured out what went wrong and now we're 2-2!" threads.

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by Anji:

I personally don't think MikeD is running the offense he used in Phoenix. The fastbreak isn't even the same. I think we are using a really watered down version of MikeD's princeablies.

This helter skelter system we are running seems to be dependent on the other teams willingness to play at the knicks tempo. SO yes, if any team decides to slow it down on the knicks, it's hard to keep up.

That was down to be a must though given it's not the same roster of thoroughbreds. I had a feeling we'd see a variation of the Phoenix offense not a duplicate for we just don't have the shooters nor the consistent high IQ willing - and able to - share - at all positions that Phoenix had. Even our willing players aren't exactly able to share at the lightning quick rate that the Suns roster was able to.

So it's a variation but the foundation/principles are the same.

All in all what I'm trying to do is reason why we're 1-2 and got blown out twice - it's not that we fell off of some cliff - it's just that this offense isn't a smart team of players - they don't know how to improvise - so if they face a team like Miami that doesn't focus on disrupting them - then they can freely run and gun and will get those open shots and look good. Yet, when you face a team willing to make it their defensive focus to stop penetration, confuse the offensive players, stop transition buckets - once that's done - the Knick roster isn't smart enough, isn't clever enough, to adapt. Then the offense collapses, the shot clock runs down, and one player gets "stuck" with the ball and has to resort to creating for himself of which with this team is a rare penetration to the hoop and usually just a dribble trick followed by a deep jump shot.

I expect that to be the norm - so what I'm trying to do - is reason that there's no huge mystery or surprise in any of the first three games - in fact I think we're getting an instant picture into the season.

Teams that D us up and are hitting their shots = we're done no question about it.

Teams that D us up but have a bad night shooting = a close but hard to watch game.

Teams that don't or can't D us up and we are hitting our shots = we're going to roll.

Teams that don't or can't D us up and we're both hitting our shots = high scoring close game fun to watch.


...it may sound cliche "hit your shots you do well" but it's a little more advanced than that. Yet, it's not a mystery.

Given the roster, the overall IQ, the overall passing skills and decision making ... this is what we will get until there are wholesale changes.

There shouldn't be any "But we looked good in PS and in the Miami game WHY did we get torched by Philly and MIL back to back? What's wrong with them? Why didn't they play better. NEXT time it'll be different. It was just an off night by us. There's a distraction or something. I don't get it. We were good and then POOF."

See, that form of fan reaction - just doesn't have any merit to it.

Just kinda a point I'm trying to make based off on putting some observations together. If anything this point should calm some people down whose either playoff aspirations have dissolved, or think the team isnt putting forth the effort, or think DAntoni is purposely tanking, etc - you know - any explanation to justify "loosing when we shouldnt be cause were better than that."

Fact is, we're not it's just this system will appear to make you much better when you face a team that can't stop it. A team like the Suns roster was smart so it was much tougher for teams to stop them. Knicks roster is pretty dumb across the board so teams will have an easier time stopping it.


Alright, I think I got everything in there I wanted to say lol.

On with torching the BoobKittens on Wednesday and the return of "see, I told you guys, stop panicing, we're going to be good, mike figured out what went wrong and now we're 2-2!" threads.

Well I think the problem is because we don't have one decession maker like Nash I think we are trying to spread out that process, which appears to be harder IMO. I would rather see the knicks run a less effective verison of the Suns system then this helter skelter system that is based off what you would except out of one Nash like point guard.

This team would be much better running the balanced fast break then what we run now. The basic princeables of that break was to attack the defense before they were set(which we try to do) but the manner in which they attacked the D was in general the same. To me that is easier then letting everybody freelance. Nash in the middle(he uses came to the ball on rebounds to let the break develop), with two wings filling the lanes(usually they flare to the corners if they can't fill the lane), one player stop for the three up top and Stoudimere on the delay.

Now I don't except these guys to run it like they did, but it isn't brain surgery. Were is the high/low play, you don't think Lee and Zach can run that either??? Were is the pick and rolls in near the lane. We run picks, but they are just to get the guards open............ they never run picks to get the guards open in Pheonix!!!!

I really would like to know if Mike D feels that until he gets a point guard he can trust, he will not run his offense in depth, because that's what it looks like to me.