Posted by Cosmic:

If Lee is getting traded then you better see Curry or Crawford or Zach out the door with him - AND - a 1st round pick STILL coming back along with cap relief for those other players.

Otherwise, unless you are talking about trading Lee for a guaranteed top 3 pick in a loaded draft, there's really nothing to talk about.

In hindsight we could have selected Lee at #8 and not Frye and at this point everyone NBA wide would agree Lee was worth every bit a #8 pick...so unless something amazing is coming back pick wise - OR - we're shipping garbage out with him - no reason to trade him.

I believe given how much money he wants on a new contract it would more than likely be in our better interests to pursue moving him whereas in the past I might have been against that.

i'm not talking about trading Lee for a guaranteed top 3 pick in the draft... i'm talking about trading Lee for a lower lottery pick or mid 1st round pick & then sucking bad enough this year to land our own top 5 pick w/the one we already own... if u do that u can realistically land 2 of those players i just mentioned above & work towards gaining the cap flexibility to make a move for a bigname in 2010.

if u include 1 of our bad contracts in the deal, all the better.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-04-2008 06:12 AM]

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by TMS:


i'm not talking about trading Lee for a guaranteed top 3 pick in the draft... i'm talking about trading Lee for a lower lottery pick or mid 1st round pick & then sucking bad enough this year to land our own top 5 pick w/the one we already own... if u do that u can realistically land 2 of those players i just mentioned above & work towards gaining the cap flexibility to make a move for a bigname in 2010.

I think that would only be wise if Curry or Zach or Crawford went out the door with him and returned that 2010 flexibility along with the 1st rounder.

Otherwise I don't see the point unless you're confident we would let lee walk on an outrageous offer sheet this summer thus losing him for nothing - so at least a mid 1st rounder would be "something". ?

as it stands now D Lee will be wanting a big payday... i don't think Walsh believes he's worth that type of investment, or he would have signed him up already IMHO... i think Donnie & MDA really wanna try & be players in the 2010 FA market even tho no moves have been made yet to get there... if that's the case then this plan of action would make sense in my view... if we can land another 1st rounder for D Lee then it would set us up well for the longterm future, even tho some might think it's craziness to trade our best player for an unproven draft pick.

You gotta do it bro. I agree 1000%. If something comes up that makes sense for Lee, you pull the trigger. I want an infusion of youth, youth and more youth. Infusion of youth and shedding salary - that should be the rebuilding gospel for the Knicks. I think David Lee may never have more value than he does right now - a good case could be made that he's pretty much at his ceiling right now - undersized but fairly athletic 4 with plus rebounding and passing skills, smarts and a slow but steadily improving offensive game with the improved jumper and FT shooting (although I remain skeptically how much better he really gets offensively from where he's at right now - the jumper's far from a go-to weapon yet and he still has no post moves/pet moves down on the block to speak of. But the work ethic's certainly there so further improvement's not out of the question). You know what, that's solid. That's good value. There's plenty of teams around the league who could use that type of package in a player - up to Walsh to go out and find the best scenario that works for us and our future. Remember we could've netted the 5th pick in the draft for this kid and turned it into OJ Mayo until Lee and the agent nixed it.

I wish we could keep him; I'd hate to see him go. But you're right TMS, he's gonna want big money and I just don't see breaking the bank to keep a player with his limitations. Bottom line is this isn't MLB, it's the NBA where the salary cap means eveything - you don't give a decent or pretty good player world-class money - that's how you cripple your franchise. You can just tell that the Knicks and Lee are worlds apart on a number, probably why Walsh chose to suspend talks for the time being. If we were talking a top-flight bonafide NBA PF in his prime, a gamechanger/franchise player, then you pony up the bread. But Lee, improvement and all, is far from that. Remember for all the good Lee brings to the table he's replaceable - I gave a list last year of about 40-50 similar players around the league that have the ability to more or less give you the same type of production given the same amount of playing time. I'd shop him and shop him hard. Only thing I fear is that when it comes down to it, other teams are going to want to go the sign and trade with anything Lee - Walsh will have to resign him then we'll be forced to take back another team's contract(s) to balance the deal, much in the same way Isiah acquired Crawford from the Bulls. Hopefully we can swing something simple on a smaller scale where we're only talking Lee (and his current contract) for inexpensive/young players and/or draft picks but something tells me it'll be more involved than that. We'll see what happens, but yeah, Donnie's gotta start by dangling him out there and see what he can come up with. When you're a rebuilding club that's in flux like the Knicks you can't amass enough young players with promise and draft picks, that's for sure...

Posted by Finestrg:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Cosmic:

Posted by TMS:


i'm not talking about trading Lee for a guaranteed top 3 pick in the draft... i'm talking about trading Lee for a lower lottery pick or mid 1st round pick & then sucking bad enough this year to land our own top 5 pick w/the one we already own... if u do that u can realistically land 2 of those players i just mentioned above & work towards gaining the cap flexibility to make a move for a bigname in 2010.

I think that would only be wise if Curry or Zach or Crawford went out the door with him and returned that 2010 flexibility along with the 1st rounder.

Otherwise I don't see the point unless you're confident we would let lee walk on an outrageous offer sheet this summer thus losing him for nothing - so at least a mid 1st rounder would be "something". ?

as it stands now D Lee will be wanting a big payday... i don't think Walsh believes he's worth that type of investment, or he would have signed him up already IMHO... i think Donnie & MDA really wanna try & be players in the 2010 FA market even tho no moves have been made yet to get there... if that's the case then this plan of action would make sense in my view... if we can land another 1st rounder for D Lee then it would set us up well for the longterm future, even tho some might think it's craziness to trade our best player for an unproven draft pick.

You gotta do it bro. I agree 1000%. If something comes up that makes sense for Lee, you pull the trigger. I want an infusion of youth, youth and more youth. Infusion of youth and shedding salary - that should be the rebuilding gospel for the Knicks. I think David Lee may never have more value than he does right now - a good case could be made that he's pretty much at his ceiling right now - undersized but fairly athletic 4 with plus rebounding and passing skills, smarts and a slow but steadily improving offensive game with the improved jumper and FT shooting (although I remain skeptically how much better he really gets offensively from where he's at right now - the jumper's far from a go-to weapon yet and he still has no post moves/pet moves down on the block to speak of. But the work ethic's certainly there so further improvement's not out of the question). You know what, that's solid. That's good value. There's plenty of teams around the league who could use that type of package in a player - up to Walsh to go out and find the best scenario that works for us and our future. Remember we could've netted the 5th pick in the draft for this kid and turned it into OJ Mayo until Lee and the agent nixed it.

I wish we could keep him; I'd hate to see him go. But you're right TMS, he's gonna want big money and I just don't see breaking the bank to keep a player with his limitations. Bottom line is this isn't MLB, it's the NBA where the salary cap means eveything - you don't give a decent or pretty good player world-class money - that's how you cripple your franchise. You can just tell that the Knicks and Lee are worlds apart on a number, probably why Walsh chose to suspend talks for the time being. If we were talking a top-flight bonafide NBA PF in his prime, a gamechanger/franchise player, then you pony up the bread. But Lee, improvement and all, is far from that. Remember for all the good Lee brings to the table he's replaceable - I gave a list last year of about 40-50 similar players around the league that have the ability to more or less give you the same type of production given the same amount of playing time. I'd shop him and shop him hard. Only thing I fear is that when it comes down to it, other teams are going to want to go the sign and trade with anything Lee - Walsh will have to resign him then we'll be forced to take back another team's contract(s) to balance the deal, much in the same way Isiah acquired Crawford from the Bulls. Hopefully we can swing something simple on a smaller scale where we're only talking Lee (and his current contract) for inexpensive/young players and/or draft picks but something tells me it'll be more involved than that. We'll see what happens, but yeah, Donnie's gotta start by dangling him out there and see what he can come up with. When you're a rebuilding club that's in flux like the Knicks you can't amass enough young players with promise and draft picks, that's for sure...

This was a fantastic post Finest. I totally agree with you.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Hasheem Thabeet will be a Knick and I know that will make one particular poster a very happy man

i would have no problem whatsoever replacing D Lee w/Hasheem Thabeet... that would improve our defense tremendously... w/our own pick hopefully we can land that franchise G this team desperately needs.