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While some talk, others walk
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Knicksfan
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11/3/2008  7:45 PM
We know all about Walsh, D'Antoni and the famous "2010 plan". This is supposed to be the season that we make bold trades that may not help us win but immediately but may put us in a great position to sign a big free agent like Lebron James and have a strong team for that coming season. Thats why is so frustrating that while we should be doing that, we have to worry more about this year's episode of the Marbury Wars. Meanwhile, other organizations, well run organizations make the right moves at the right time to prepare for the big free agent year. Read this:
Pistons get Iverson now, LeBron later?
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports

Joe Dumars had the chance to consider Dallas’ Jason Kidd and his expiring contract over the summer, a league executive said Monday, but the Detroit Pistons president had bigger, bolder ideas. Allen Iverson still gives the Pistons a puncher’s chance in the Eastern Conference this season, but this trade isn’t about him. It isn’t about Chauncey Billups.

Think bigger.

Think bolder.

Think LeBron James, 2010.

The Pistons president doesn’t just have the salary cap space for the Cleveland Cavaliers star. He also has the connections and the championship credibility. Make no mistake: Detroit and Dumars are officially in hot pursuit of James – maybe even the favorite now – and it promises to be a long, agonizing two years for the Cavaliers.

Detroit doesn’t deliver the bright lights and global metropolis destination that James wants when he opts out of his contract in 2010, but two more years of watching Kobe Bryant win titles could transform his priorities. James wants badly to be considered the best player on the planet and that won’t happen until he’s a champion.

James wants a front office with a vision that honors his greatness, and make no mistake: This makes Detroit and Dumars so dangerous, makes them Cleveland’s worst nightmare. The city could justify losing its prodigal son to New York or Los Angeles, but nearby Detroit?


Cleveland would never recover.

So why Iverson over a possible package for Kidd? Several league executives know exactly why: The trade with Denver to make an unhappy Iverson happier just further imbeds the Detroit franchise deeper into James’ agent, Leon Rose, and advisor, William Wesley. Just as they represent James, they rep Iverson.

And as much as anyone, “World Wide” Wes is one of the most important voices in Lebron’s life. Wesley lives in Detroit, where one of Rose’s clients, Richard Hamilton, is a Pistons star. What’s more, Dumars is close to an agreement with Hamilton on a two-year extension that will keep him through 2012, sources say. This is a terrific show of faith for Hamilton, who is trying to recoup hundreds of thousands of dollars that a business manager allegedly stole from him.

Wesley comes and goes at the Palace of Auburn Hills as he pleases, and few have such a window into the winning culture of the Pistons.

As one rival GM said Monday, “Damn it, I am afraid Joe has this whole thing wired. He’s got everything in place to pull this off.”

The New Jersey Nets’ move to Brooklyn is falling apart, and so is owner Bruce Ratner’s chances of using limited partner, Jay-Z, to lure James. The Knicks will be a factor, but the bumbling of the Stephon Marbury mess has reflected horribly on the organization. The Knicks have an owner, GM and coach with differing agendas and they’ve made an initial poor impression. Detroit can’t compete with New York as the global city to market James, but winning could take care of everything.

With Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni as GM and coach, the Knicks can still get their act together. Yet, no one will ever need to ask that of Dumars. No one else can sell James on a winning culture as compellingly as Dumars. He had gone as far as he could with Billups, who has three years and $36 million left on his contract. Billups gave the Pistons a slight edge over Iverson to make another run this season, but Dumars had already gotten a final run out of him a year ago. Detroit won a title, reached a Game 7 of the NBA Finals and six straight Eastern Conference finals with Billups.

Now, Billups is 32 years old. He’s declining. This is a low-risk, short-term, high-reward, long-term play for Dumars.


The Pistons president believes that the young guard Rodney Stuckey, a brilliant pick out of Eastern Washington, can take over the Pistons next year. Iverson and Rasheed Wallace could leave the payroll this summer, and the Pistons will be $22 million under the salary cap in 2009. They will have a core of Hamilton, Tayshaun Prince, Stuckey, Jason Maxiell and Amir Johnson in 2010. No one else among James’ serious suitors with cap space has two All-Stars (Hamilton and Prince) and a potential third (Stuckey) for him to join.

Most of all, James knows he’d have Dumars to give him the right coach, the right teammates, the right atmosphere to chase championships for a long, long time. What makes this plan so ingenious is that the bridge from Iverson to Stuckey, from Wallace to Maxiell, makes it possible for the Pistons to reconstruct themselves without bottoming out. They’ll still be a 50-win team. Dumars hates the idea of rebuilding through the lottery, and that won’t need to happen here. He won’t be offering James a heap of ashes in 2010, but a good team needing him to complete its greatness.

For the flawed franchises falling over themselves to get under the salary cap for 2010, the most ingenious plan promises to start out of the NBA’s brightest executive mind. Joe Dumars is thinking big. He’s thinking bold. This will be an agonizing two years in Cleveland.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=AlzRademwUOGRk_7kDIHUow5nYcB?slug=aw-dumarslebron110308&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

(I messed up the original...)

[Edited by - knicksfan on 11-03-2008 9:26 PM]

[Edited by - knicksfan on 11-03-2008 9:28 PM]
Knicks_Fan
AUTOADVERT
oohah
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11/3/2008  8:29 PM
Zackly.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
GKFv2
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11/3/2008  8:45 PM
How do you expect Walsh to "walk" with the players he has? Detroit has tradeable players that people would give an expiring contract for. We don't.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
CrushAlot
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11/3/2008  9:06 PM
Walsh is a mess. He could have started things off by drafting someone that could help the team with the sixth pick. He could have handled the Marbury situation over the summer. Signing Chris Duhon is not handling that situation. I don't agree with the Mike D'Antoni hire for many reasons and I don't expect him to succeed in NY. That being said, he has at least made an attempt to handle Marbury and Curry and that is more then I expected. I don't know why Walsh traded for Ewing jr. and then cut him to keep a journey men sixth guard on the team. I don't know why he didn't fire Isiah Thomas. The season has started with Isiah and Marbury in the news, and people questioning where the franchise is going. The only plan is to get under the cap for 2010. That plan may not work. I also am not sure if rebuilding thru the draft can work because the Knicks blow every lottery pick that they get.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Knicksfan
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11/3/2008  9:27 PM
The Knicks will be a factor, but the bumbling of the Stephon Marbury mess has reflected horribly on the organization. The Knicks have an owner, GM and coach with differing agendas and they’ve made an initial poor impression. Detroit can’t compete with New York as the global city to market James, but winning could take care of everything.
With Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni as GM and coach, the Knicks can still get their act together. Yet, no one will ever need to ask that of Dumars.

Some may agree that benching and vanishing Marbury is the best for the organization. Others may disagree. But one thing is certain: if you are in the outside looking into this Knicks situation, you wonder if anything has really changed with the organization. Things were a circus with Isiah and so far its been the same. This start of the season was supposed to show a more controlled and better managed organization, but so far its more and more drama.
Forget about wins, its the organization that has looked horrible the last years and this makeover is looking like more of the same, and thats what worries me the most...



[Edited by - knicksfan on 11-03-2008 9:28 PM]
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Bippity10
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11/4/2008  11:36 AM
Is this the year that we were "supposed to make bold moves", or is this just our interpretation of what was going to happen?

I do agree that as far as this being a circus, nothing has changed much. That to me reminds me of the same old thing and is of course bad for us. But in regards to the bold moves. With our roster and salaries there is a pretty good chance that we will be unable ot make "bold moves". Our job is to either get in position to attempt to sign a big time free-agent. But it's also important to know that this is a pipe dream and not a given. So if it doesn't occur you can't make every move as if it is. You make smart moves to get in position, but if you are unable to do so, you make moves that don't put you in position to start all over again in 2010.
I just hope that people will like me
arkrud
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11/4/2008  11:40 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Walsh is a mess. He could have started things off by drafting someone that could help the team with the sixth pick. He could have handled the Marbury situation over the summer. Signing Chris Duhon is not handling that situation. I don't agree with the Mike D'Antoni hire for many reasons and I don't expect him to succeed in NY. That being said, he has at least made an attempt to handle Marbury and Curry and that is more then I expected. I don't know why Walsh traded for Ewing jr. and then cut him to keep a journey men sixth guard on the team. I don't know why he didn't fire Isiah Thomas. The season has started with Isiah and Marbury in the news, and people questioning where the franchise is going. The only plan is to get under the cap for 2010. That plan may not work. I also am not sure if rebuilding thru the draft can work because the Knicks blow every lottery pick that they get.

There is a simple answer for all this questions - Dolan.
Are you aware who is running the show?

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Pharzeone
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11/4/2008  11:53 AM
The Pistons president doesn’t just have the salary cap space for the Cleveland Cavaliers star. He also has the connections and the championship credibility.

As I pointed out to nyk4ever. That goes a long way with players. You can have all the cap space in the world and be in the largest media market like Chicago but it doesn't mean a damn thing if you don't have those connections.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
SupremeCommander
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11/4/2008  11:57 AM
Detroit is also a basketball city. There aren't many. That is yet another reason for LBJ to go Detroit. He did say he wanted to be a "global icon" and while Detroit is no NY/LA/Chi, it's right there with Boston in terms of basketball tradition.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
JrZyHuStLa
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11/4/2008  12:07 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Detroit is also a basketball city. There aren't many. That is yet another reason for LBJ to go Detroit. He did say he wanted to be a "global icon" and while Detroit is no NY/LA/Chi, it's right there with Boston in terms of basketball tradition.

He does want to be a global icon, but I think he wants the "best basketball player that ever lived" title even more though. And that will require championships, plenty of them. Detroit gives him that chance with the way they've been running things over there the past few years, this sad franchise knows as the Knicks clearly doesn't.

The fans deserve LBJ, the organization clearly doesn't.
BasketballJones
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11/4/2008  12:09 PM
Posted by Bippity10:


I do agree that as far as this being a circus, nothing has changed much.

I know. It's awesome, isn't it? I was worried that the Circus atmosphere would dissipate when Isiah left.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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11/4/2008  12:12 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:


I do agree that as far as this being a circus, nothing has changed much.

I know. It's awesome, isn't it? I was worried that the Circus atmosphere would dissipate when Isiah left.


You and I both know that the legacy of Isiah Thomas will hang with us for a long time. And why shouldn't it? He was great. Hopefully he will be back.
I just hope that people will like me
SupremeCommander
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11/4/2008  12:19 PM
Posted by JrZyHuStLa:
Posted by SupremeCommander:

Detroit is also a basketball city. There aren't many. That is yet another reason for LBJ to go Detroit. He did say he wanted to be a "global icon" and while Detroit is no NY/LA/Chi, it's right there with Boston in terms of basketball tradition.

He does want to be a global icon, but I think he wants the "best basketball player that ever lived" title even more though. And that will require championships, plenty of them. Detroit gives him that chance with the way they've been running things over there the past few years, this sad franchise knows as the Knicks clearly doesn't.

The fans deserve LBJ, the organization clearly doesn't.

Oh, yes, for sure. I agree. But I'm just adding another bullet point to why Detroit would be appealing to LBJ.

Detroit gives:
*Championships (best player ever)
*Pedigree (global icon)
*Tradition (the next chapter in a storied franchise history)
*Money (max contract)
*Street cred (new rapper friends)
*Close to home (easy to get back to Cle)

You add all these up, LBJ to Detroit seems so likely. If I had to pick the main reason, like you said, it gives him the possibility to be the best ever. But there are a lot of reasons for him to go to Detroit..

***

Personally, I think he should try to get it to work in Cle. He is from there, the franchise stinks and has no real history... if he could turn it around there, he would go down as the best ever. LBJ is clearly connected, I don't know why he doesn't use those connections to get a new front office hired, better players there, and go down in NBA history as the hometown savior. I mean, I remember how some people freaked out when Marbury and Wilkens came to NY... the hometown points returned to resurrect the Knicks. LBJ in Cleveland is like that, only that he could really go down in history as the best ever.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Nalod
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11/4/2008  1:36 PM
Detroit akin to Boston in Hoop tradition?

3 games in we are second guessing it all?

Marbury go showcased in preseason which is why he played. GM's know what he can do, and the condition he is in. Maybe what MDA has seen in Marbury is he can't fit in.

Gallo is a bust already? Duhan a bust? So on and so on.

fans are fickle.

Give it time.

And, the team will suck this year.

And the water is muddy. This team has 32mil in CurrBury. Add 5mil for Jerome.

Craw can only shoot off the dribble and nate is still hyperStupid.

The jury is out for two more years.

Cavs owner still owner of QuickenLoans?
TMS
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11/4/2008  4:46 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

The Pistons president doesn’t just have the salary cap space for the Cleveland Cavaliers star. He also has the connections and the championship credibility.

As I pointed out to nyk4ever. That goes a long way with players. You can have all the cap space in the world and be in the largest media market like Chicago but it doesn't mean a damn thing if you don't have those connections.

Lebron's not gonna go to DET cuz they won a championship several years ago... he's going to the team he feels he has the best future on & where his marketability will be maximized... money will not be a factor cuz any team that wants any hope of signing him will have to offer him the max regardless.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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11/4/2008  4:49 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Is this the year that we were "supposed to make bold moves", or is this just our interpretation of what was going to happen?

I do agree that as far as this being a circus, nothing has changed much. That to me reminds me of the same old thing and is of course bad for us. But in regards to the bold moves. With our roster and salaries there is a pretty good chance that we will be unable ot make "bold moves". Our job is to either get in position to attempt to sign a big time free-agent. But it's also important to know that this is a pipe dream and not a given. So if it doesn't occur you can't make every move as if it is. You make smart moves to get in position, but if you are unable to do so, you make moves that don't put you in position to start all over again in 2010.

we had a lottery pick & David Lee w/high trade value to get at least 1 major move done... looks to me like Walsh at least did try to trade D Lee before the draft to land a topnotch prospect, but that didn't work out... i'm not gonna blame him for not getting that done, but i am left scratching my head as to why Marbury wasn't bought out before training camp ever started & why Zach's contract wasn't dumped for cap space if the true plan was to gain flexibility in 2010... all i can do is hope Walsh has something up his sleeve that he's working on to start towards achieving that plan before 2010 gets here & it's already too late.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
tkf
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11/4/2008  8:27 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

How do you expect Walsh to "walk" with the players he has? Detroit has tradeable players that people would give an expiring contract for. We don't.

as I highlighted in my post in the other thread. typical unreasoning, irrational NY fan mentality.. It really is irrational. How many times do you hear, these same fans say, we have nothing , who wants our junk? yet we are supposed to "walk" ROFL.. wow...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
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11/4/2008  8:32 PM
Walsh should have fired Isiah, hired a defensive minded coach, drafted someone who could help the teamwith the sixth pick, handled the Marbury situation over the summer after he signed Duhon, and not waived Ew jr. Those are all situations where Walsh had to make decisions and made the wrong ones. None of those decisions involve trading away huge contracts.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
While some talk, others walk

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