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nixluva
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11/1/2008  8:44 PM
WE ARE TRYING TO REBUILD! There's no need to look at this team as if it's some kind of end product. We are in evaluation and retraining mode. The young players we already have will be retrained to learn how to win and the old players we don't want are on their way out. We don't need to look at MDA as a mistake just cuz this version of the team isn't built to win RIGHT NOW. This isn't about this season, it's about the future direction of this team.

Now no one likes the idea of keeping Steph, Jerome or Malik, but that's what they've decided to do. We haven't yet committed to Lee or Nate and I believe that they want to use this season to see what they're made of. If they don't perform then we can choose to go in another direction. Nothing is written in stone and that's a good thing.

MDA has a great offensive style and contrary to what keeps getting stated, he does teach defense. He doesn't have the tools yet to actually be effective defensively and trust me if he did then we'd see better defense. You can't go out there with the weakest and shortest frontcourt in the league and expect imposing defense. Nor can you expect to shutdown the perimeter with Jamal and Nate as the biggest part of your guard trio. We obviously need to either get more from the players we have or get better players, but isn't that the idea of all of this?

Look for us it's a win, win situation. We're going to either see major improvement from these guys or we'll end up with a great draft pick. In any event we'll be getting rid of a couple more guys we don't want in Steph and Malik. We may even see a trade made that will move another player we don't want. I just want some sanity to exist around here. I can already sense a building tension from some fans after one blowout and the press pushing the Steph situation.

OK I'm done now. I just wish more of us could take this season for what it is and not get too crazy about what happens good or bad, cuz this is a transition year for this franchise and I think better days are ahead of us, once we get past the Steph situation and the players start to adjust to what they're being taught.

GO KNICKS!!!
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Elite
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11/1/2008  8:48 PM
+10000000000000000000

great post, I think i needed to hear that too.. Your 100% right.
holfresh
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11/1/2008  9:00 PM
Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...
Anji
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11/1/2008  9:13 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...

Not really, they beat in 6 games in the western conference finals 3 years in a row, then Kerry traded for Shaq. I'll sign for that right now.

It's not like they got bounced in the second round by teams they were better then.


[Edited by - Anji on 11-01-2008 9:14 PM]
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
nixluva
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11/1/2008  9:23 PM
Posted by holfresh:

Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...

PHX IMO overachieved every year and NEVER had talent the equal of teams they went up against. Marion was OK, but he's not a devastating talent. Amare is very good, but not great. You would never think of him as a franchise player like Duncan or Shaq in his prime. Nash was the MVP, but that had a lot to do with the system being tailor made for his skills. He profited more than any player from playing that style of ball. Now they have Shaq, but he's a shell of what he once was.

I don't believe that MDA ever had the best team in the league. They played great, but they didn't have the best talent. We're clearly rebuilding and will have a chance to add significantly to our talent base either by the draft, trade or a big FA in 2010.

The only thing you can hold against MDA is this concept that a lack of Defense was why the lost. It was never that simple. Also i'll once again challenge the assertion that only defense wins. Magic's Lakers and Montana's 49'ers were primarily great offensive teams with good defense. You can win with a great offense and only good D.
Cosmic
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11/1/2008  9:31 PM
WE ARE TRYING TO REBUILD! There's no need to look at this team as if it's some kind of end product. We are in evaluation and retraining mode. The young players we already have will be retrained to learn how to win and the old players we don't want are on their way out. We don't need to look at MDA as a mistake just cuz this version of the team isn't built to win RIGHT NOW. This isn't about this season, it's about the future direction of this team.

Okay, I know this...but why is it after a decent preseason and beating Miami the playoff bound drums were beating in the minds of some, but, we get our asses torched by Philly and suddenly it's meaningless, we're rebuilding, DAntoni is tanking (rgm's favorite topic LOL), etc?

.

I think things are pretty straight forward here. New regime, the roster is a disaster, it will take time to change it, in the meantime they are going to at least install the style of play and professionalism they want regardless of who is here, and along the way we're going to win as much as possible.

With this roster the nights we hit our shots we are going to win or have a good chance of winning. Nights when we're a team of 15 Crawful's out there, we're going to get torched.

No biggie, really, except that it sucks to see it happen.
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nixluva
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11/1/2008  9:43 PM
I always want the team to win, but in this scenario we know the limitations of this team. I actually do still think it's possible for this team to get to the playoffs, but it's far from a strong prediction. There are just too many variables. how much will the young players improve in this system and gel? Will we get some help via a trade? Will we make a trade that further strips the team and sets us up for the draft instead? We just don't know.

What we do know is that the direction of the team has changed and we're going to be looking to remake this team into the vision MDA and Walsh have for it. There has been progress even now. No longer is slacking going to be tolerated and that's a huge change. Team play will be the new identity and we already can see how good this team can look when the shots are falling. 20+ assists is going to be a regular thing with this team and i'm very happy about that. I just hope we can get some kind of presence at C, so that we're not so weak up front.
knicks1248
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11/1/2008  9:50 PM
Theres no excuse for losing a game by more then 10/12 points. We have enough talent to compete, so you could talk all day about re building, but if were getting blown then everyone has something to do with it.
ES
nixluva
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11/1/2008  9:39 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Theres no excuse for losing a game by more then 10/12 points. We have enough talent to compete, so you could talk all day about re building, but if were getting blown then everyone has something to do with it.
While I agree with you in principle, the reality is that since the inception of the Shot clock teams have had off nights and been blown out. It's gonna happen to every team at some point.

This team has shown for years now that it's not put together with strong defensive players. I wish we had more solid 2 way players, but at this point we don't. My guess is that Walsh is seeing exactly what we are and that he wants very much to add some defense to this team. I do however expect the team to get better defensively as the year goes along. I think they can and will defend better. Not great, but much better than they have so far. I see guys making mistakes right now and I think those things are correctable. Also I think we'll see some help come from Jared when he comes back. We simply must get some one to challenge shots, so teams won't feel it's a free pass down the lane. Right now there's nothing to deter teams inside and we have weak perimeter defenders, so we're gonna give up a ton of points this year, until that changes.
s3231
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11/1/2008  10:23 PM
Personally, I don't see why people think that we have so much talent.

Maybe a couple of years ago when the East was watered down, we did, but not anymore.

The East is stronger and the league overall is much tougher. If you take last night's game against Philly for example, they had three players (Brand, Iggy, and Andre Miller) that were arguably the three best players on the floor. Our best player is Jamal Crawford, what does that tell you? We should be a bit more competitive than we were last season, but make no mistake, we aren't a playoff team and as a result, you will see games like last night.

Donnie and D'Antoni are steps in the right direction, but until the players change, don't expect this team to be a good one overnight. This is going to be a process.
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
Hoopsmeister
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11/2/2008  12:00 AM
Posted by nixluva:

WE ARE TRYING TO REBUILD! There's no need to look at this team as if it's some kind of end product. We are in evaluation and retraining mode. The young players we already have will be retrained to learn how to win and the old players we don't want are on their way out. We don't need to look at MDA as a mistake just cuz this version of the team isn't built to win RIGHT NOW. This isn't about this season, it's about the future direction of this team.

Now no one likes the idea of keeping Steph, Jerome or Malik, but that's what they've decided to do. We haven't yet committed to Lee or Nate and I believe that they want to use this season to see what they're made of. If they don't perform then we can choose to go in another direction. Nothing is written in stone and that's a good thing.

MDA has a great offensive style and contrary to what keeps getting stated, he does teach defense. He doesn't have the tools yet to actually be effective defensively and trust me if he did then we'd see better defense. You can't go out there with the weakest and shortest frontcourt in the league and expect imposing defense. Nor can you expect to shutdown the perimeter with Jamal and Nate as the biggest part of your guard trio. We obviously need to either get more from the players we have or get better players, but isn't that the idea of all of this?

Look for us it's a win, win situation. We're going to either see major improvement from these guys or we'll end up with a great draft pick. In any event we'll be getting rid of a couple more guys we don't want in Steph and Malik. We may even see a trade made that will move another player we don't want. I just want some sanity to exist around here. I can already sense a building tension from some fans after one blowout and the press pushing the Steph situation.

OK I'm done now. I just wish more of us could take this season for what it is and not get too crazy about what happens good or bad, cuz this is a transition year for this franchise and I think better days are ahead of us, once we get past the Steph situation and the players start to adjust to what they're being taught.

GO KNICKS!!!

Good post, I am with you on this one. GO KNICKS!
TMS
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11/2/2008  3:35 AM
i don't think a true rebuild starts until Steph is off this team
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Allanfan20
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11/2/2008  3:50 AM
TMS, don't forget Eddie Curry. He needs to be gone. And we need to completely rebuild everything that has to do with our frontcourt, b/c the quality of it's defense is so low, that it's scary. You know your frontcourt is in bad shape, when you're looking at Jared Jefferies to come and mend things with his defense. We're in that bad of shape on defense.

From a basketball standpoint, I'm really starting to believe that all of Lee, Zach and Curry need to be traded.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Allanfan20
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11/2/2008  3:56 AM
Posted by holfresh:

Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...


Phoenix did NOT seem overmatched, except by the two teams that made it to the NBA finals. The Spurs (Who won) and the Mavericks (Who should have won, but got the crap end of a horribly refed game to close the series.)

I don't remember who beat them this year to be honest, but it didn't matter. The team was on the downside. Oh nevermind, it was San Antonio. Again.

Holfresh, you seem very very critical of coaching. You think Larry Brown is awful and now you think D'Antoni is not doing well. You'll prolly be calling for his head too, within two months. I'm willing to bet that. Why???? Don't you realize it's a no win situation with this roster for ANY coach? Whether it's LB, MDA, Jerry Sloan, Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro or Greg Popovich. I'm really willing to bet that every one of those coaches would have been fired by Isiah at some point, and a lot of fans, again, would have been calling for their heads. I'm willing to bet that you'd be one of them. Not a shot. It just seems like your style.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
DarkKnicks
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11/2/2008  4:49 AM
We are rebuilding... but we dont have players to rebuild.
When Lee (and/or Nate) gets his 70 million 6 years deal, rebuilding will be over. (It does not mean I dont want that to happen)

We are rebuilding when we have talented young players with rookies salaries for 4 more years or we have many picks, or we are going to be under the cap very soon. And this aint happening. Chandler (Im waiting for Gallinari though) is the only thing that can be associated with rebuilding at this point.

I think we want to think that we are rebuilding, but to me we have not even started, we are just not worsening the situation, which is a first step to be fair.

Once I see our cap is going way down and we start to have a group of valid young players (Crawford, Duhon or Collins dont fit in that description) we will be rebuilding. For now, we are just there waiting in purgatory until Isiah sins are forgiven.
TMS
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11/2/2008  12:26 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

TMS, don't forget Eddie Curry. He needs to be gone. And we need to completely rebuild everything that has to do with our frontcourt, b/c the quality of it's defense is so low, that it's scary. You know your frontcourt is in bad shape, when you're looking at Jared Jefferies to come and mend things with his defense. We're in that bad of shape on defense.

From a basketball standpoint, I'm really starting to believe that all of Lee, Zach and Curry need to be traded.

agreed, Curry's gotta go to, it's become clear he has no desire to be work for his role on this team... any one who's not w/the program or has any type of future w/this team needs to be gone
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
holfresh
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11/2/2008  12:36 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:
Posted by holfresh:

Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...


Phoenix did NOT seem overmatched, except by the two teams that made it to the NBA finals. The Spurs (Who won) and the Mavericks (Who should have won, but got the crap end of a horribly refed game to close the series.)

I don't remember who beat them this year to be honest, but it didn't matter. The team was on the downside. Oh nevermind, it was San Antonio. Again.

Holfresh, you seem very very critical of coaching. You think Larry Brown is awful and now you think D'Antoni is not doing well. You'll prolly be calling for his head too, within two months. I'm willing to bet that. Why???? Don't you realize it's a no win situation with this roster for ANY coach? Whether it's LB, MDA, Jerry Sloan, Avery Johnson, Vinny Del Negro or Greg Popovich. I'm really willing to bet that every one of those coaches would have been fired by Isiah at some point, and a lot of fans, again, would have been calling for their heads. I'm willing to bet that you'd be one of them. Not a shot. It just seems like your style.

My beef with Larry Brown was it was all about Larry Brown...He just like the rest of the players were a headcase...He was just as much a distraction as the players..He was a Diva and you cant agrue that...

I think the offense that MDA runs is a gimmick offense....And for a low shooting percentage team like the Knicks, there will be many losses...That said, this team doesn't have the talent to win anyway but I think the young players will be adversely affected because they will be let off the hook for not playing defense and jacking up ill advised shots....This is Jamal Crawford's dream come true...
holfresh
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11/2/2008  12:44 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by holfresh:

Are we rebuilding??, I think it was a question that Gus asked Clyde during the game...Has MDA or Walsh say that losing isn't a problem because we are rebuilding...I think we are but its something that the Knicks brass don't want publicly stated...

And if we are rebuilding, Does or did it bother you that Phoenix seemed over matched in the playoffs the last four years even with several (3) all stars on the roster??...

PHX IMO overachieved every year and NEVER had talent the equal of teams they went up against. Marion was OK, but he's not a devastating talent. Amare is very good, but not great. You would never think of him as a franchise player like Duncan or Shaq in his prime. Nash was the MVP, but that had a lot to do with the system being tailor made for his skills. He profited more than any player from playing that style of ball. Now they have Shaq, but he's a shell of what he once was.

I don't believe that MDA ever had the best team in the league. They played great, but they didn't have the best talent. We're clearly rebuilding and will have a chance to add significantly to our talent base either by the draft, trade or a big FA in 2010.

The only thing you can hold against MDA is this concept that a lack of Defense was why the lost. It was never that simple. Also i'll once again challenge the assertion that only defense wins. Magic's Lakers and Montana's 49'ers were primarily great offensive teams with good defense. You can win with a great offense and only good D.

PHX was as talented if not more talented than most teams in the playoffs...What they lacked was that one dominant unstoppable force...3 all stars on your roster plus Raja Bell, Kurt Thomas,Barbosa, Diaw isn't talent??..who was deeper in the western conference?..I agree that they may have overachieved in the regular season with number of victories but underachieve in the playoffs where they game becomes a half court game...I thought they had enough talent to win a Championship in one of those year...If they won a Championship, no one here would be saying wow I can't believe they won...
4949
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11/2/2008  12:44 PM
Posted by nixluva:

WE ARE TRYING TO REBUILD! There's no need to look at this team as if it's some kind of end product. We are in evaluation and retraining mode. The young players we already have will be retrained to learn how to win and the old players we don't want are on their way out. We don't need to look at MDA as a mistake just cuz this version of the team isn't built to win RIGHT NOW. This isn't about this season, it's about the future direction of this team.

Now no one likes the idea of keeping Steph, Jerome or Malik, but that's what they've decided to do. We haven't yet committed to Lee or Nate and I believe that they want to use this season to see what they're made of. If they don't perform then we can choose to go in another direction. Nothing is written in stone and that's a good thing.

MDA has a great offensive style and contrary to what keeps getting stated, he does teach defense. He doesn't have the tools yet to actually be effective defensively and trust me if he did then we'd see better defense. You can't go out there with the weakest and shortest frontcourt in the league and expect imposing defense. Nor can you expect to shutdown the perimeter with Jamal and Nate as the biggest part of your guard trio. We obviously need to either get more from the players we have or get better players, but isn't that the idea of all of this?

Look for us it's a win, win situation. We're going to either see major improvement from these guys or we'll end up with a great draft pick. In any event we'll be getting rid of a couple more guys we don't want in Steph and Malik. We may even see a trade made that will move another player we don't want. I just want some sanity to exist around here. I can already sense a building tension from some fans after one blowout and the press pushing the Steph situation.

OK I'm done now. I just wish more of us could take this season for what it is and not get too crazy about what happens good or bad, cuz this is a transition year for this franchise and I think better days are ahead of us, once we get past the Steph situation and the players start to adjust to what they're being taught.

GO KNICKS!!!

Now here's a Knick fan who is acting like a Knick fan. My thoughts pretty much. Great post! Be patient and don't get caught up in things that cannot be dealt with right now.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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11/2/2008  12:46 PM
Posted by TMS:

i don't think a true rebuild starts until Steph is off this team

They are rebuilding, with or without him on the roster. He can cry and ball all he wants to, but it's happening.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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