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Symptoms of hope.............
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Nedyal1
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9/2/2003  1:32 PM

Bashing Laydog is too easy. Monday moring QB of old trades and blunders are easy also.

Identify the change, see a trend early is a difficult thing.

I open this forum to discuss things that might signal a turnaround. Things we asked for and have gotten like youth, picks, luck,etc.

Laydog has a long contract and is not going anywhere. His talent might be in building as its not in trading. Could the evil Dolan finally awoken to understand what needs to be done.

Also is it realistic to think someone else can manage to trade eisly, spoon, knight, or anyone else for decent quality with out taking on more silly contracts?

Im looking for the objective here, not what was.

Nobody will be happy until the wins start happening and the youth movement solidifies. But if the symptoms of good management are taking root, then we must start looking at it fairly.

THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
AUTOADVERT
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/2/2003  4:13 PM
I just noticed that neydal spelled backwards is LAYDEN. LOL

Regarding the silly contracts- they will be held over LayDown's head until he can trade them. He had no business making deals that he can't trade. That seems to be what he's done since he got here.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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9/2/2003  5:40 PM
Ok I see neydal has another good point. Now tell me what are "reasonable numbers for KVH this season for you guys to stop hating? 18/10 ?
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
knixphan
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9/2/2003  9:05 PM
I'd like 18/10...as long as his guy doesn't put up 20/15...

And I agree that there are signs that those cats upstairs at the garden realized their goofs over the past 4 years, and are ready to break out the bandages and antibiotics...

Speaking of hope - Dice. Man, do I hope.
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
Nedyal1
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9/2/2003  10:43 PM
Hardcore,

I hear you man, but look, those dumb moves were done under the belief we were a real good team whom just got out of the 99' finals, and were perhaps one big man away.

I think we got screwed out of mutumbo when we signed rice. Falk screwed us real bad. I think Laydog got schooled there.

It could be worse, somehow the celtics ended up with Vin Baker!

In the end, this is where we are. I don't think those contracts are tradable just yet. Anderson is a nice role player on a good team. Since we are not such a team, he is a waste, and an expensive Luxury we cannot afford.

As I said, if we continue to aquire assets, the future is nice. We can't undo what is done. KVH is a reasonable trade that does not hurt us and we just can't say we could have done better just becasue we are fans and wish it was so. Its a risk and I hope KVH does well because he will be a lightening rod for all that is wrong this season. He is goofy looking, but a much better community person than spree was, and a good guy all around. We have such a "nice" team! Allan, ward and KVH, are such gentleman type guys. If we can't be nasty, why not nice and have famlily values! Spree was cool when winning, but lost interest when losing.
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/3/2003  12:33 AM
Sup Nedyal,

Yeah we were 1 bog man away after the '99 finals, but did LayDown address that issue with Weatherspoon? With Eisley and Anderson? Drafting Lavor Postell and Eric Chenowith? Drafting Donell Harvey just to trade him for a guard?

I agree about the Dikembe thing, but that just may have been a blessing in disugise. IMHO since Patrick didn't win a ring, the same fate will befall the other two G-town centers (now that they are on the Nets, I REALLY don't want them to get a title!)

I disagree about LayDOwn not going anywhere. Execs under contract get chopped all the time in organized sports (and if it ever needed to heappen, this is a prime example). If this season ends up bad enough, IMO Dolan will use his scapegoat card and kick LayDown to the curb. Dolan can still save face by getting a real GM to come on and make things happen the way they are supposed to here in NYC. Hopefully that next GM will have Dolan understand that he plans to get this team back in contention without Dolan's amateurish meddling.

Lastly, it seems that too much emphasis is being put into this whole "nice guy" thing. If they wanna get players that are so-called "good" guys that's cool. But why do they have to be so damn SOFT (read: KVH)? I mean really... Community stuff will NOT help us add W's to the standings. I could care less if any of the Knicks sit around and read to kids with a Dr. Seuss hat on. We need an image that better reflects the New York state of mind (which never has or ever will be soft like we're looking right now), not Utah's. We really need a GM who thinks the same way.

Well, I believe that this season will do away with the whole "nice guy" plan and the (four-eyed) LayDown vision when we end up winning 30 games and lock up the #1 Overall in '04. Selecting the first pick will be a great way to break in our next GM.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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9/3/2003  6:33 AM
YOU ARE HOPELESS HARDCORE, WHAT HAPPEN TO YA NY STATE OF MIND? 9/11 didn't make you Hard enough.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nedyal1
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9/3/2003  9:02 AM

Laydog only gets booted if the draft picks this year and next are huge blunders.

If your going to suck, then you don't want Failblazer dope heads and idiots ruining the image. At leaset if you like the guys, they can sell tickets. Again, its entertainment. so lets say we do agree, but you need to understand that bad teams with bad attitudes really are no fun at all. Last year the team worked hard, stayed together, played and beat some nice teams, and was fun sometimes. But if they were all full of themselves, and lose, they are jokes!

The good guy thing gets replaced with tough winning attitude. Winning forgives alot of things, and we just not there yet. Its a process hardcore, evolvolution. In time, in time.

yeah, Spoon , eyes, anderson, all role players to support a team that never materialized. Again I agree with you. But lets face it, fireing Laydog does not make it go away. IF Dolan and laydog are in agreement to rebuild the right way, then those idiot contracts are best to expire some, then trade. IF you dump, it ends up costing good players or draft picks as sal cap days dictate you must do someone a favor to recieve one. A few years ago you could just dump and some teams (like the knicks) thinking they are in contention would pick them up.

So go on with the intense hatred of Laydog, but it won't matter. OUr society loves a scapegoat and we love to put a face on it. The talaban is the problem, so we make fun of Bin Laden, Iraq has a deadly government, but we get funny with Sadam. Its the way it gets done. Blame Wall street for societies ills, enron for corp america's ills. We blame bush for IRaqs mess up when it becomes poitical. If you need to demonize Laydog, so be it, but sometimes things just don't go to plan, and yes sometimes it also gets screwed up. Dice was a huge risk that would have had changed the complextion of the team. In that, I think Spree would have been moved earlier, and we would have found a defensive center to compliment the team. One move or set of circumstances begets another. Dice went down, and a rebuilding mode started. But you don't hype that as nobody would really care. The team regrouped after losing its best player (dice), Got back its small forward after 10 games and all of preseason, and did a nice job after a horrible start.
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
knixphan
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9/3/2003  12:50 PM
Yeah - I think it was the best possible lemonade to make out of last season's lemons...

And I stick by my assertion that the dream moves we all crave will be impossible until Houston's contract is up. Hindsight is always 20/20. Even Laydown would redo that signing if he had a time machine...Or maybe he'd try to move a package with Ewing for a package with Dice...the 'what ifs' are endless...

I believe Scotty wants to improve his rep. We'll see. If he can at least set us up for '06, I'll be ok.



[Edited by - knixphan on 09/03/2003 12:53:18]
"I will dress in bright and cheery colors, and so throw my enemies into confusion."
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/4/2003  5:49 AM
Posted by playa2:

YOU ARE HOPELESS HARDCORE, WHAT HAPPEN TO YA NY STATE OF MIND? 9/11 didn't make you Hard enough.

I am sure that everyone affected by 9/11 really appreciates how well that pack of wolves you call a family raised you, playa(self).
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/4/2003  6:22 AM
Neydal, you are definitely not a man of few words!
Posted by Nedyal1:


Laydog only gets booted if the draft picks this year and next are huge blunders.
Draftees aside, I think LayDown gets kicked if Dyess doesn't return.

If your going to suck, then you don't want Failblazer dope heads and idiots ruining the image. At least if you like the guys, they can sell tickets. Again, its entertainment. so lets say we do agree, but you need to understand that bad teams with bad attitudes really are no fun at all.
I see your point, but bad teams with NO attitudes (like the way we seem to be this year IMO) are straight up boring. Hopefully we won't end up that way...

Last year the team worked hard, stayed together, played and beat some nice teams, and was fun sometimes. But if they were all full of themselves, and lose, they are jokes!
Yeah but they weren't full of themselves. We still lost. The team does not have to be full of themselves to show some heart and have some fire. If we come out like softees, we will be the joke of the NBA. A major market team like the Knicks...a laughingstock. That ain't funny to me.

The good guy thing gets replaced with tough winning attitude. Winning forgives alot of things, and we just not there yet. Its a process hardcore, evolution. In time, in time.
What I want to see more than anything else is a tough winning attitude. I just want to see NYK get a title in my lifetime.

yeah, Spoon , eyes, anderson, all role players to support a team that never materialized. Again I agree with you. But lets face it, fireing Laydog does not make it go away.
True, but at least it's a step in the right direction. I can see Dolan trying to save face by chopping LayDown, and maybe then he'll back off and let the next GM get the job done right.

IF Dolan and laydog are in agreement to rebuild the right way, then those idiot contracts are best to expire some, then trade. IF you dump, it ends up costing good players or draft picks as sal cap days dictate you must do someone a favor to recieve one. A few years ago you could just dump and some teams (like the knicks) thinking they are in contention would pick them up.
Excellent point. We are on the same page there... 100%

So go on with the intense hatred of Laydog, but it won't matter. OUr society loves a scapegoat and we love to put a face on it. The taliban is the problem, so we make fun of Bin Laden, Iraq has a deadly government, but we get funny with Saddam. Its the way it gets done. Blame Wall street for societies ills, enron for corp america's ills. We blame bush for IRaqs mess up when it becomes poitical. If you need to demonize Laydog, so be it, but sometimes things just don't go to plan, and yes sometimes it also gets screwed up.
I just wish we had a GM that refused to be a scapegoat. I have said the same thing about LayDown being a scapegoat for Dolan numerous times in these threads. IMO LayDown has done too much damage to slide at this point. Again, hopefully the next GM won't make the same mistake.

Dice was a huge risk that would have had changed the complextion of the team. In that, I think Spree would have been moved earlier, and we would have found a defensive center to compliment the team. One move or set of circumstances begets another. Dice went down, and a rebuilding mode started. But you don't hype that as nobody would really care. The team regrouped after losing its best player (dice), Got back its small forward after 10 games and all of preseason, and did a nice job after a horrible start.
That is why I believe that LayDown's future in NY depends on the Dyess factor. If Dyess returns AND is productive, then LayDown saves some face and possibly extends his tenure here to continue attempting to undo his countless blunders here. If not, he's outta here and a new GM can try to do the impossible and fix the mess LayDown left in his wake.[

These are the kind of exchanges that make the forum that much better.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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9/4/2003  6:28 AM
Why are you disturbed, you are hardcore right?
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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9/4/2003  6:32 AM
Damn right I am HARDCORE, but we are talking b-ball and that 9/11 reference was way out of line. We are supposed to be discussing (Knicks) basketball.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Symptoms of hope.............

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