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Can D'Antoni save Thomas rep?
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Swishfm3
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10/24/2008  8:22 PM
If the Knicks win 40 games this year and make the playoffs under Coach D, with the players they have now, will your opinion about Thomas "The GM" change?
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Allanfan20
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10/24/2008  8:34 PM
No. He still put together a disfunctional squad that can't guard anyone. This isn't a team that can win in the playoffs.
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CrushAlot
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10/24/2008  8:49 PM
No. Isiah as a GM was a mess. He seemed to want to create a fantasy team with no regard for actual team needs, chemistry, or salary cap. He embarassed the franchise with his behavior and actions on and off the court. He was a horrible coach. He hired and fired two hall of fame coaches. He brought in the most dysfunctional, highest paid, one dimensional, chemistry killing guys in the league. He brought in guys with contracts that could not be insured because their health issues were so severe. He traded away draft picks and destroyed the salary cap for years to come. The Knicks should win alot more than 40 games with their payroll. If they win 40 D'Antoni and his players will be doing their job in a professional manner for the first time since Wilkens was fired.
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K22
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10/24/2008  8:50 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

No. He still put together a disfunctional squad that can't guard anyone. This isn't a team that can win in the playoffs.

Well, we have to work on winning in the regular season enough to make the playoffs first. I do think Coach Pringles is the guy that can teach them how. The previous coach's reputation is a non-factor, IMO. The results from his regime pretty much speaks for itself.

[Edited by - K22 on 2008-10-24 8:51 PM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
SupremeCommander
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10/24/2008  8:53 PM
No. We all knew he has a knack for talent evaluation. He had no ideal how to financially value these players, or make them mesh, or how to preserve assets, or how to maximize his skills for talent evaluation. He, as a GM, is a joke. He's still under contract, let Walsh continue to use him as a consultant that's exiled from interacting with the organization. He's a good scout, no more.
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NineMike2Whiskey
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10/24/2008  10:19 PM
No because MDA would have just got the team to overachieve, not exactly a glowing indictment on Isiah's team building abilities
Cosmic
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10/25/2008  10:21 AM
Posted by Swishfm3:

If the Knicks win 40 games this year and make the playoffs under Coach D, with the players they have now, will your opinion about Thomas "The GM" change?

No because two years ago they were headed in that very direction until injuries sunk them. We all know the ceiling for this team and it's not very high. If everything is perfect they can win 40 and make the playoffs.

Problem is there are so many flaws that no matter how well they play at times there will be stretches when they are an absolute disaster.

The only thing Thomas did right (enough at least) was drafting. Everything else was a disaster.

I am confident that if last season there was no trial and we did not trade for Zach that we had a shot at 40 wins and the playoffs. The trial caused the Marbury explosion. Zach destroyed Eddy's good season. The rest fell apart from there.
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nyk4ever
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10/25/2008  10:24 AM
no, theres no way under any circumstance that this collection of players should be playing together.
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Bippity10
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10/25/2008  3:14 PM
It wasn't about talent with Isiah and the team he put together and never was. Isiah created a circus and that was his problem.
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nyk4ever
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10/25/2008  3:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

It wasn't about talent with Isiah and the team he put together and never was. Isiah created a circus and that was his problem.

Yeah but some of the guys he brought in helped create that circus.
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BlueSeats
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10/25/2008  5:08 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

If the Knicks win 40 games this year and make the playoffs under Coach D, with the players they have now, will your opinion about Thomas "The GM" change?


Look at it this way, no matter what ever becomes of this team, Isiah will never be a GM in this league again.
4949
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10/25/2008  5:10 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

If the Knicks win 40 games this year and make the playoffs under Coach D, with the players they have now, will your opinion about Thomas "The GM" change?

Of course it would. He picked them, and if they win 40, then it was worth the picks. Well, at least most of them. It's just that he couldn't lead them by example. That needed to be done by someone else. 40 wins is exactly what I picked them to win, so we'll see.
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Swishfm3
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10/25/2008  8:44 PM
But remember his "vision" when he went after these players...He wanted the Knicks to play like the Phoenix Suns.

Now with the right coach to coach this team, we can finally see if Zeke brought in the right players for this system.
4949
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10/25/2008  10:01 PM
Wait a minute. Are you talking about Isiah or D'Antoni? Because I don't ever remember Isiah wanting these players to play like the Suns and if that was his' vision, then he did a pretty piss poor job of it.

[Edited by - 4949 on 10-25-2008 10:03 PM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
knicks1248
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10/25/2008  10:16 PM
Isiah the scout gets kudos, he failed at ever other job he was suppose to do very badly.
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Bippity10
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10/26/2008  10:05 PM
Isiah knows talent. This is not in dispute. He doesn't know how to mesh that talent, lead that talent, motivate that talent, galvanize that talent or stick to a plan(at least not since he was a player). Now it's up to someone else to try to win with his team.
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Cosmic
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10/26/2008  10:44 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Swishfm3:

If the Knicks win 40 games this year and make the playoffs under Coach D, with the players they have now, will your opinion about Thomas "The GM" change?

Of course it would. He picked them, and if they win 40, then it was worth the picks. Well, at least most of them. It's just that he couldn't lead them by example. That needed to be done by someone else. 40 wins is exactly what I picked them to win, so we'll see.

40 wins is their ceiling. If everything went right: Near perfect health, harmony, no side shows, no meltdowns, etc... 40 wins is really their absolute ceiling. Is that worth all that was put in to achieve this potential 40 win season? As an absolute ceiling as a club? Was 40 wins the ultimate goal?

I'd sure hope not.

If we won 40 I'd be happy as fan to finally see some (near) winning basketball but the same exacty questions/problems would exist and you'd still be talking about dismantling the roster.

Again, no injuries 2 years ago, and they probably win 38. Status quo, no Zach, no drastic changes, everyone happy, maybe last season we broke 500.

Yet, that's it with this roster, that's the best they can do.

I'm not happy with that......

I'd have to say no on the hindsight bit.
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GKFv2
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10/26/2008  10:48 PM
The fact is if Isiah took a 33-win team and made it into a 38-win team(at it's peak, because he never won more than 33 games here officially) in 4+ years then he is a failure. A complete failure.
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Cosmic
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10/26/2008  11:00 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

The fact is if Isiah took a 33-win team and made it into a 38-win team(at it's peak, because he never won more than 33 games here officially) in 4+ years then he is a failure. A complete failure.

Well, to expand, he took Laydens decaying roster, added Marbury, got to the playoffs.

Then went nuts and traded for TT and Crawford...and turned us into a 33 win team.

Hired Larry to discipline his dream roster and we won 23.

Then "made basketball fun again" and won 33 (was going to win 38 if not for those late injuries, but, whatever).

Then went insane, got his ass handed to him in court, attacked Marbury over it, tanked us to 23 wins.

NOW, as I've said, MikeD taking over is eerily similar to two season ago: New coach, basketball is fun again, the team is playing hard for the most part: And we'll be another 30-something-playoff-missing-failure.

I think it's quite plain to see the only thing Isiah did well is draft. Not spectacular, but, well.

He will never be vindicated for putting this roster together as they will never perform at more than a .500 level and I highly question their ability to even sniff .500 play for more than a short stretch at a time.

He won't be vindicated for his drafting ability for we already know that he's drafted fairly well and we expect a certain level of play from those kids who are still here.

In short? Isiah is good with young kids entering the league but he did his TRADES based on the idea that he could take a player and transform him into a good player. Never happened. Everyone he traded for was already a bum and wasn't going to improve and they never did improve. That was his downfall.

He's like a chick: He sees a player as a piece of clay that he can mold into whatever he wants. That might work with college kids entering the league but was never going to work with established NBA vets.

The guy screwed up pretty good for 4.75 years and will never be vindicated.
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