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Cosmic
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10/22/2008  6:13 PM
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
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TMS
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10/22/2008  6:31 PM
considering Steph's already had experience playing in this system it's little wonder he looks more comfortable this season... y'all need not to be fooled by this mirage, it's not going to lead this franchise anywhere to have Steph starting at the PG... if anything it delays the necessary rebuild that much longer, & if Jamal doesn't catch onto the program this season then other options need to be weighed for our SG ASAP... we can't afford to dyck around any more & waste away an entire season trying to evaluate what we have... these guys have played together long enough for us to know who will work together & who won't.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nixluva
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10/22/2008  6:35 PM
it reads like something that was developed a while ago, before we've seen them play a bit. It's accurate in some ways, but I think like most it's assumed that there weren't enough guys who could play in this system. I see there was no mention of Chan or Nate, which is a HUGE oversight. Those two figure prominently in this season.

Lee and Zach actually look good together and I think once we get Jared back that will give them a boost defensively in the front court. He's the only big we have that can move like we need and he can pass well enough to help things move along. Gallo could be a good help if he can get healthy enough to play for us and provide some perimeter shooting down the line.
McK1
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10/22/2008  7:01 PM
steph and kg drew stockton and malone comparisons when he started out under Flip

steph played at an MVP level and subsequently KVH looked like an all-star under lenny

steph played some of his best ball as a Knick once brown once put Nate and Lee in the starting line-up

Steph looks cmfortable in any system b/c he knows how to play

his attitude towards being coached and being a ball hog has been the issue.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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10/22/2008  7:53 PM
Posted by McK1:

Steph looks cmfortable in any system b/c he knows how to play

his attitude towards being coached and being a ball hog has been the issue.

exactly, which is why u shouldn't expect anything different from him this year... Jamal's problem has not been that he's opposed to being coached, but that he's having trouble adjusting his game after an entire season where he was given free reign to launch up shots at will... i think it'll come to him eventually, & if it doesn't, he needs to go too... the 1 thing i know for sure is that Marbs has no place here & we shouldn't even be wasting our time w/the guy... just buy him out & cut ties already for the love of God.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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10/22/2008  8:10 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by McK1:

Steph looks cmfortable in any system b/c he knows how to play

his attitude towards being coached and being a ball hog has been the issue.

exactly, which is why u shouldn't expect anything different from him this year... Jamal's problem has not been that he's opposed to being coached, but that he's having trouble adjusting his game after an entire season where he was given free reign to launch up shots at will... i think it'll come to him eventually, & if it doesn't, he needs to go too... the 1 thing i know for sure is that Marbs has no place here & we shouldn't even be wasting our time w/the guy... just buy him out & cut ties already for the love of God.

see, I have no expectations. I'm about watching what does happen so at this point I'd rather watch a guy who knows how to play perform than watch a guy who never has learned hoping this time he gets it.

also, if D'Antoni didn't think he could contribute then he'd be benched like Curry so obviously Steph has a place...

another scale tilter:

crawford brings nothing on the defensive end.

you can coax a defensive effort out of steph when you put him on 2's.

[Edited by - McK1 on 22-10-2008 8:16 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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10/22/2008  9:11 PM
i'd rather see Duhon, Nate & Mardy getting all of Steph's minutes, i don't care how much better Steph is as a player... Jamal's got a longterm contract & will be here beyond this season barring any trades, so it's worth our time to evaluate whether or not he can thrive in this system... Marbury's future here is nonexistent, why bother?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
GKFv2
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10/22/2008  9:31 PM
Jamal is a loser and always has been. He can't thrive in any system because all he wants to do is perform crossovers and take terrible shots as well as play no defense.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
McK1
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10/22/2008  9:57 PM
Posted by TMS:

Jamal's got a longterm contract

reason no.1 1/2 to look for opportunities to phase him out and get rid of him

IMO the less "important" he is the easier it is to trade him for nothing more than an expiring an avoid a fan backlash 4 "not getting enough" for him

[Edited by - McK1 on 22-10-2008 9:59 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
nixluva
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10/22/2008  10:07 PM
Hey anyone that doesn't prove WHY they need to be here is a target to get traded. No one is immune coming from where this team has been. I like Jamal, but this is bigger than him or any one player. If he can't cut it then he has to be replaced. Now I'm willing to give him much more time than a few preseason games, but all players need to be on notice that they must produce or risk losing their spot or worse, being traded.

It's one thing to just be missing shots and yet another to look totally lost and interrupting the flow of the team when you're out there. Not finding other ways to contribute when your shot isn't falling is another bad sign. It's to the point where just about anyone in the league could be doing a better job than Jamal right now cuz he's so out of it that he's a detriment. I'd rather roll with Mardy than have Jamal out there not producing anything. Jamal has got to get it together.
TMS
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10/22/2008  10:19 PM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by TMS:

Jamal's got a longterm contract

reason no.1 1/2 to look for opportunities to phase him out and get rid of him

IMO the less "important" he is the easier it is to trade him for nothing more than an expiring an avoid a fan backlash 4 "not getting enough" for him

[Edited by - McK1 on 22-10-2008 9:59 PM]

like i said in other threads, i'm not fully opposed to trading Jamal... if we can find a suitable deal out there, then do it... i'm on board w/that... but until then we gotta try & get him to play well in this system, cuz like it or not he's got a contract w/this team for the long term & will be here beyond this season, unlike Steph... there's no possible upside whatsoever in playing Marbury other than helping Marbury gain some self respect amongst fans who've already given up on him... i could care less about Steph at this point, he's done enough to trash this franchise & played a huge role in dragging the Knicks logo through the mud over the past few years... he shoulda been out of here a long time ago & the only reason he's not is cuz Jim Dolan has a hard on for him.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
McK1
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10/23/2008  8:36 AM
all we know about Crawford's future is that he is owed a set amount of money. He could be traded tomorrow. Same as Curry tho you haven't been too vocal about Malik currently getting his minutes.

I am a believer that what you see is what you get from the 2 gentlemen currently in charge of the franchise so right now I trust the coach and team prez to make the best basketball decisions for this franchise and not the ones to placate emotions.

I don't believe MDA is trying to get people to not hate Steph. He is trying to win ballgames and to a guy coming from the heights he came from, that is probably the only upside that matters to him.

re: getting crawford going.

he was just quoted as saying he doesn't care about pre-season. meanwhile everyone else thats seen the floor is busting their ass. why should MDA waste his time with JC?


[Edited by - McK1 on 23-10-2008 09:00 AM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TMS
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10/23/2008  9:12 AM
gimme a break if u think keeping Marbury here beyond this season is the best decision for this Knicks franchise... so again i'll ask u if he's not gonna be here beyond this year why do we waste time playing him? do u honestly think i want Malik playing Curry's minutes either at this point? Curry's obviously out of shape but if i had my choice i'd be playing him max minutes to whip his butt into shape right now... the point is we should be playing guys who have a future here (whether that's desired or due to their contracts, either way they will be here barring any trades... to say "hey, he might be traded tomorrow" is pointless to this discussion)

i agree w/u, MDA is only concerned about getting W's... this has nothing to do w/what i think MDA wants, i'm telling u what i think should be our main focus going forward as a fan of this team... playing Marbs this year so we can eek out a few more W's is pointless if u ask me... i'd much rather we be playing the guys who will actually be here beyond this season so they get maximum burn & maximum exposure.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
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10/23/2008  9:46 AM
Posted by McK1:

steph and kg drew stockton and malone comparisons when he started out under Flip

steph played at an MVP level and subsequently KVH looked like an all-star under lenny

steph played some of his best ball as a Knick once brown once put Nate and Lee in the starting line-up

Steph looks cmfortable in any system b/c he knows how to play

his attitude towards being coached and being a ball hog has been the issue.

Okay, that's enough...what have you done with the real McK1? Where is the body buried?

Because the real McK1 prefers Luke Ridnour to Stephon Marbury!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
McK1
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10/23/2008  10:01 AM
saying someone might be traded is not pointless when you throw the phrase guys who have a future here in the mix. There is no guarantee Crawford is a part of the future esp. since his contract is a stumbling block to the 2010 plan.

as for Steph who said anything about beyond this season

right now I believe they have a business plan for Marbury and Walsh is not going to give away what he can sell. Their is a history of desperate GMs/Owners trading for talented team problems in February and giving up picks and cap relief in the process hoping to catch lightning.

Sheed in 04
Walker in 05
AI in 06
Kidd in 07

and I know the response will be Steph is no Kidd or AI which he isn't, but an in shape and motivated Steph still has enough game to put the right team over the top.

And if they can't swing a deal, he still is playing for his next NBA contract and NY reaps in the win column and maybe even gets a mid to late seed while watching 21 mill come off the books at season's end.
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
knicksbabyyeah
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10/23/2008  10:03 AM
season previews was an image that has been taken down?
McK1
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10/23/2008  10:07 AM
Posted by oohah:


Okay, that's enough...what have you done with the real McK1? Where is the body buried?

Because the real McK1 prefers preferred Luke Ridnour to Stephon Marbury!

oohah

he was a better floor leader than Steph...at least back when he played for Nate
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
MS
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10/23/2008  10:20 AM
A midseason Iverson for Marbury deal wouldn't be all that bad for both teams, the nuggets aren't going anywhere and jr smith could provide the offense as efficiently as iverson.....

Crawford sucks that stat is pretty telling they listed. People need to stop watching basketball if they think crawford is going to be efficient this year.

When Marbury was playing his game at least the knicks were playing .500 ball. Duhon, Marbury, Chandler, Lee, Zach, Jefferies, Collins, Nate, Gallo. That should be the rotation no one else deserves to play. I will take Mardy Collins playing 30 minutes any day of the week over crawford.
TMS
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10/23/2008  6:56 PM
Posted by McK1:

saying someone might be traded is not pointless when you throw the phrase guys who have a future here in the mix. There is no guarantee Crawford is a part of the future esp. since his contract is a stumbling block to the 2010 plan.

as for Steph who said anything about beyond this season

right now I believe they have a business plan for Marbury and Walsh is not going to give away what he can sell. Their is a history of desperate GMs/Owners trading for talented team problems in February and giving up picks and cap relief in the process hoping to catch lightning.

Sheed in 04
Walker in 05
AI in 06
Kidd in 07

and I know the response will be Steph is no Kidd or AI which he isn't, but an in shape and motivated Steph still has enough game to put the right team over the top.

And if they can't swing a deal, he still is playing for his next NBA contract and NY reaps in the win column and maybe even gets a mid to late seed while watching 21 mill come off the books at season's end.

this is where u & me differ... u'd rather we try & milk every last ounce of game outta Steph so we can maybe somehow sneak our way into an 8th seed in the playoffs, while i'd rather we moved on, played & developed our young guys while building team chemistry between the guys who will actually be here beyond this season even at the cost of losing... the worst thing that can happen in my scenario is we finish the season w/a better lottery position in the draft... the worst thing that can happen in your scenario is Marbury becomes a royal PITA yet again, ruins team chemistry, provides a distraction to the team at every possible opportunity, & we finish w/a horrible draft choice... but hey, we should all be used to that scenario i guess.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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10/23/2008  6:57 PM
Posted by MS:

A midseason Iverson for Marbury deal wouldn't be all that bad for both teams, the nuggets aren't going anywhere and jr smith could provide the offense as efficiently as iverson.....

why on earth would the Nuggets wanna trade us AI for Marbs? that's silly... they both have expiring deals & AI is so much better it's not even close... JR Smith can't sniff AI's jock, please.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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