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VDesai
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10/13/2008  12:05 AM
So what exactly do you do with him? Its just preseason, but from the looks of things, he's in the best shape he's been in since 2004. He pulled a few moves we've rarely seen from him in recent years in the Philly game.

The problem with Marbs is that he's one and done on his contract. We have no intention of resigning him, he's not a part of long term plans, and b/c of his attitude, his trade value is still pretty slim and we don't want to take on longer deals anyway. But do you play him on the chance that he improves the value of others, i.e. Randolph? As much as he plays with selfish intentions, the guy does pass the ball, and there were times when he was here that he improved the play of others (KT, KVH, Tim, Doleac come to mind as players who had excellent, albeit short lived, streaks of offensive productivity when playing with Steph).

As far as I can tell, he's probably still a ticking time bomb in the locker room and will immediately make the mood more sour once we run into a bad streak here. At this point he looks too good to just buy out (and it seems Walsh is against that anyway), and he's also might be too good to just leave languishing on the bench...
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TMS
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10/13/2008  12:43 AM
i value building team chemistry for the longterm over hoping beyond hope that somehow Marbury will play himself into some trade value this year... no more wasting entire seasons... we need to stick to a plan & go with it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
VDesai
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10/13/2008  12:48 AM
Posted by TMS:

i value building team chemistry for the longterm over hoping beyond hope that somehow Marbury will play himself into some trade value this year... no more wasting entire seasons... we need to stick to a plan & go with it.

Yeah but my point was not really the value Marbury plays himself into- but what about the tangible effect he might have on the value of others (especially Randolph), if his preseason play is more than a mirage. I'd love to move on, but if we're not gonna do a buyout, the best thing might be to play him, see what he can do and let him walk (as this is a transition year most likely)- especially if he's gonna keep showing that contract year swagger (and at this point, he's really playing for his reputation and his continued life in the NBA, if he's inclined to stay here).

[Edited by - vdesai on 10-13-2008 12:48 AM]
TMS
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10/13/2008  1:28 AM
coming into a walk year i think his priorities will be raising his own trade value over raising anyone else's.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
CrushAlot
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10/13/2008  1:39 AM
I think when he made that incredible spin move to the basket and got fouled for a three point play and none of his teammates came over to congratulate him against the Sixers it was a telling moment. He has been all alone for awhile. I think his teammates have not been with him for quite awhile but Isiah was with him so that counted for alot. In the new regime management wants him gone, the coach has already rejected him once, and despite the fact that he is the most talented player on the roster he will not start. He may spend the year as a Knick but it will not be pretty.
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egelband
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10/13/2008  1:48 AM
i'm liking the even distribution of minutes and marbury seems to be fitting in so i'm good with keeping him around. if all goes well he'll have some trade value...maybe even could get a good draft pick for him later in the season.
TMS
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10/13/2008  2:17 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think when he made that incredible spin move to the basket and got fouled for a three point play and none of his teammates came over to congratulate him against the Sixers it was a telling moment. He has been all alone for awhile. I think his teammates have not been with him for quite awhile but Isiah was with him so that counted for alot. In the new regime management wants him gone, the coach has already rejected him once, and despite the fact that he is the most talented player on the roster he will not start. He may spend the year as a Knick but it will not be pretty.

i definitely got that feeling watching the preseason games... the guys on the team seem like they don't really want him there... maybe i'm reading too much into it but that's the body language i see... i think he's completely lost their trust & it's gonna take a lot to win it back.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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10/13/2008  2:18 AM
Posted by egelband:

i'm liking the even distribution of minutes and marbury seems to be fitting in so i'm good with keeping him around. if all goes well he'll have some trade value...maybe even could get a good draft pick for him later in the season.

the best we can hope for is another expiring for Marbury at this point.
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franco12
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10/13/2008  8:02 AM
the problem I have with keeping marbury is he helps our 33 win team win 38 games and while that may be nice to do, and possibly snags us the 8th seed, it kills our draft position and doesn't really do anything to help us build the future (i.e., 2010 and beyond).

what is the protection on our first round pick? if its not lotto this year, does it go to utah? I thought the protection was into the 20 range.

if its not lotto and it goes, then perhaps keeping marbury isn't so bad.
crzymdups
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10/13/2008  10:02 AM
marbury can't be in the long-term plans here. i seriously doubt he can be content coming off the bench all year either. so i guess the question is whether D'Antoni would start him? really the best backcourt in the pre-season so far has been Marbury at the 2 and Duhon at the 1 and the two trading off one another.

Craw has been a huge disappointment thus far, maybe he should come off the bench until he shows a willingness to play defense and an understanding of this offense. Royal Ivey blew by him for a layup in the Sixers game. Royal Ivey. I love Craw, but I am disappointed in his play thus far. He was talking like he was going to be a leader and the star of this team. So far, he's way behind Nate, Marbury, Lee, Chandler and ZBO as far as seeming comofortable in the offense.

So while I don't really feel safe keeping Marbury around, it might make the most sense to keep him for the time being.
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Vmart
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10/13/2008  10:26 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

marbury can't be in the long-term plans here. i seriously doubt he can be content coming off the bench all year either. so i guess the question is whether D'Antoni would start him? really the best backcourt in the pre-season so far has been Marbury at the 2 and Duhon at the 1 and the two trading off one another.

Craw has been a huge disappointment thus far, maybe he should come off the bench until he shows a willingness to play defense and an understanding of this offense. Royal Ivey blew by him for a layup in the Sixers game. Royal Ivey. I love Craw, but I am disappointed in his play thus far. He was talking like he was going to be a leader and the star of this team. So far, he's way behind Nate, Marbury, Lee, Chandler and ZBO as far as seeming comofortable in the offense.

So while I don't really feel safe keeping Marbury around, it might make the most sense to keep him for the time being.

Thats why I would like to play H20 at sg Crawford is more into his blogging than into playing. Its amazing that the two player that do blogging are Arenas and Crawford the two worst shooting percentage shooters in the league to be top scorers. This guy is a scrub and there is no way around that. As for Marbury its a ticking time bomb. Its just a matter of time before he messes up any team chemistry that is being built, its in his nature to destroy anything positive that developes. Its his attitude that rubs people the wrong way. He needs to be more personable but that something he can't do because he isn't a leader and pg have to be personable with his teammates.
CrushAlot
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10/13/2008  10:33 AM
Houston is probably done. He can't complete a practice. He might eventually make it back but he could never be the starting two guard. If he can get healthy he might be able to play 18-20 minutes. In addition to being old, and injury prone he is slow.
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BigC
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10/13/2008  10:44 AM
The Knicks should just let Marbury's contract expire. No more trades to bring back more big contracts. It does not make sense to waive Marbury because he will be getting his money plus joining a new team getting another contract. No need to reward Marbury. Let him play out his contract.
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McK1
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10/13/2008  12:17 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think when he made that incredible spin move to the basket and got fouled for a three point play and none of his teammates came over to congratulate him against the Sixers it was a telling moment. He has been all alone for awhile. I think his teammates have not been with him for quite awhile but Isiah was with him so that counted for alot. In the new regime management wants him gone, the coach has already rejected him once, and despite the fact that he is the most talented player on the roster he will not start. He may spend the year as a Knick but it will not be pretty.

what I remember of it...

Steph was visibly perturbbed prior to that play due to Nate and I think Craw coming down the 2 prior possessions and jacking up shots instead of passing the ball cross court where Steph was wide open which is prolly why they didn't congratulate him

And apparently Steph wasn't the only one upset b/c David Lee is the one who looked off Crawford and gave the ball to Steph instead in the backcourt in the first place

I've bashed Steph for 4 years but this season I really don't get the vibe Steph will be part of the problem this year


[Edited by - McK1 on 13-10-2008 12:19 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
Bonn1997
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10/13/2008  12:53 PM
Posted by BigC:

The Knicks should just let Marbury's contract expire. No more trades to bring back more big contracts. It does not make sense to waive Marbury because he will be getting his money plus joining a new team getting another contract. No need to reward Marbury. Let him play out his contract.
We can't care about what happens to Marbury. If he is a negative influence, removing him would be rewarding our team. I still think his contract has some value and there's absolutely no harm in taking on extra salary that expires before 2010 if we're getting some sweetner to justify the extra salary.


[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-13-2008 12:53 PM]
TMS
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10/13/2008  1:24 PM
Craw has been a huge disappointment thus far, maybe he should come off the bench until he shows a willingness to play defense and an understanding of this offense. Royal Ivey blew by him for a layup in the Sixers game. Royal Ivey. I love Craw, but I am disappointed in his play thus far. He was talking like he was going to be a leader and the star of this team. So far, he's way behind Nate, Marbury, Lee, Chandler and ZBO as far as seeming comofortable in the offense.

why we can't get a shotblocker in here to help cover for our perimeter players' defensive deficiencies just boggles my mind... we need scrubs warming the bench like Roberson but have no need for a big who can help patrol the paint?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BigC
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10/13/2008  2:03 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

marbury can't be in the long-term plans here. i seriously doubt he can be content coming off the bench all year either. so i guess the question is whether D'Antoni would start him? really the best backcourt in the pre-season so far has been Marbury at the 2 and Duhon at the 1 and the two trading off one another.

Craw has been a huge disappointment thus far, maybe he should come off the bench until he shows a willingness to play defense and an understanding of this offense. Royal Ivey blew by him for a layup in the Sixers game. Royal Ivey. I love Craw, but I am disappointed in his play thus far. He was talking like he was going to be a leader and the star of this team. So far, he's way behind Nate, Marbury, Lee, Chandler and ZBO as far as seeming comofortable in the offense.

So while I don't really feel safe keeping Marbury around, it might make the most sense to keep him for the time being.

How has Jamal been a dissappointment from 2 preseason games?

You say he is behind Marbury and Nate? What did Nate do in the last Sixer game that was better than Jamal?

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djsunyc
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10/13/2008  2:07 PM
Posted by BigC:

How has Jamal been a dissappointment from 2 preseason games?

i only saw the raptors game but walsh himself said he sees jamal making that "all star" step this season. and so far in the two games, he hasn't shown any inkling of all star play. so *so far*, i could see why knicks fans are dissapointed in his play.
Anji
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10/13/2008  2:10 PM
It's pre-season. Please, Jamal played bad last pre-season too. Most good players don't play like David Lee against a bunch of back ups. They go half speed and work on stuff. Jamal has been passing and working on his Defense.... he isn't even looking too score.
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djsunyc
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10/13/2008  2:15 PM
Posted by Anji:

It's pre-season. Please, Jamal played bad last pre-season too. Most good players don't play like David Lee against a bunch of back ups. They go half speed and work on stuff. Jamal has been passing and working on his Defense.... he isn't even looking too score.

i really could care less what crawford does this year. i don't like him as a player, never have and never will. he's very lucky marbury is around b/c he's deflected of all criticism...
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