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New bailout plan should mirror AIG
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BRIGGS
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9/26/2008  11:26 AM
In short--what we did with AIG was infuse them with enough capital to help them operate[while taking a controlling 80% interest] in the company[which could be somewhat of a windfall for taxpayers well down the line]
but we are allowing the company to move on as is.

What we are trying to do with the 700B is let the taxpayer--you and I PAY for the debt CREATED by the entire banking and mortgage industry and simply lay all of the toxic paper on our hands as if it never existed. Even today I was reading that Fannie May had headway of roughly 90B. Why don't we use the same model of bailout of AIG with money coming in as needed with the US taxpayer taking on majority stakes of ownership. Then GO OUT and HELP distressed homeowners with the other capital by putting them into position to be able to afford to pay their own debts down --even if they need to go to 0 interest loans to do so. This will further help the economy and housing industry by reducing massive inventories that are stockpiling.

A BEST case scenario in every scenario is getting the homeowner into position to start paying back those loans instead of simply saying burn the paper with a massive infusion of capital from the taxpayers and start over?


Get these companies working efficiently again--do NOT award Wall Street--use the money to help the homeowner stay in his house and put him in position to pay their loans.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-26-2008 11:31 AM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 09-26-2008 11:37 AM]
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tkf
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9/26/2008  1:42 PM
I agree, there has to be some accountability here. Yes we will help, NO we will not give a completely free handout. I think there should be strict regulation accompanying the loan, and the money given to help out homeowners have to be paid back, even if it is done like a school loan, a long term, low interest payback or taken out of the proceeds once the homeowners situation is better and the house is sold one day... eithe way, a bail out stinks, but aid, is acceptable. I don't want to see people kicked out of their homes, but some type of restructuring is necessary, even if it is at 0% for a while as you said..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
crzymdups
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9/26/2008  2:27 PM
briggs, what you're talking about seems to be taking the accountability off the consumer instead of taking the accountability off the banks (which the bailout seems to do). but in reality, the bailout of the banks will come with massive regulatory devices that will probably help the economy, from the bank down to the consumer. it's a huge restructure of the american financial landscape, obviously, but it seems like when economies go sour, really sour, federal regulation helps stabilize things.

i don't understand the finances behind all this and i doubt a lot of the people who claim to understand it actually do. it's incredibly complicated. but i don't know if bailing out individuals who overspent on their own is a wise idea. probably investing money in education classes and debt consolidation programs would help people. but giving individuals a total pass seems like a bad idea. maybe some tax breaks would be good, but anything else seems like it's rewarding bad behavior with no punishment. the real bailout, the one aimed at banks, will regulate them pretty heavily and hopefully be a change for the good.

i can pretty much guarantee that the economy will right itself by 2012 and the republican candidate will be running on a platform preaching serious deregulation, ignoring where that got us in 2008.

[Edited by - crzymdups on 26-09-2008 2:29 PM]
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Nalod
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9/26/2008  3:01 PM
Funny, nobody talking about "smaller government" these days as a platform.

This is not just a wall st bailout, its a shift of capitalization that requires a "trust" created to pause the slide in prices.

If the credit flows stop, it haults the economy. Jobs loss will accelerate and most real estate transactions will stop. The gov't can actually make money on this deal over time.

We reacapitalize the markets every ten years or so.

Indict, legislate, and regulate..........

Andrew Cuomo will be the next hero.
loweyecue
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9/26/2008  6:27 PM
Briggs,

AIG was givena loan at a 10% interest rate the current bailout proposes buying bad assets straight out and holding them. The only way the treasury makes money on these if the market recovers and house prices go back up.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
arkrud
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9/26/2008  9:46 PM
First off - most problems with housing are coming not from people who bought houses and take mortgages to live in the house. They bought the house ONLY to speculate. And when this "business" broke they just left it to the banks. They do lose money but banks lose more, much more.
Obviously both parties are morons and they will pay in proportion to their moronity.
Second - government and lawmakers will bale Wall street not because of economical reasons but because they all are losing money in stock market PERSONALLY. This is what will matter when they will vote.
Third - big fish will eat small fish anyway. All this falling banks will be bought for nothing. And if the buyer will be government - too bad. They will fac...up all this really bad. Government bureaucrats are good for nothing and have no incentives to do any good. If they will go by your plan the stock of this companies (like Fanny, AIG) will go to sh..t. Who need stuck of government own companies? Nobody.
Forth - nobody can say which assets are good and which are bad. It is like putting a shot of sheet into jar of honey. It's all will smell like sheet for people who know about it. And it is no way to filter it out. Bad mortgages, car loans, credit card dept, commercial leases, etc. are all packaged together with good, broken into pieces and then compound in different product and sold to thousands of institutions and people.
So they need to ingest this money in the market to make the impression that this will neutralize the sheety assets. It’s all mental man.
And last and foremost - "You cannot beat the Market"


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
Markji
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9/27/2008  12:07 AM
Many good ideas stated above. A few comments....some new:

1. We need to keep as many people as possible from defaulting on their mortgages. The absolute last thing we want is to have the banks or the gov't take back hundreds of thousands of homes and then have tight controls for new mortgages. No one will be able to buy the homes and they will just sit there. Everyone will lose money.

So the bailout needs to address the people defaulting. Keep their interest rate low - at the rate, even if sub-prime, they were paying so they can continue to pay. Some money coming in to pay off the mortgage is better than no money. This can be regulated with conditions, etc but keep the people owning the homes.

2. The underlying cause of this economic diseaster lies with the SEC in 2004, and therefore with the President, Congress and the SEC Chairman. What they did was grant a huge leverage ability to the 5 investment banks; namely Bear Stearn; Lehman; Merrill Lynch; Morgan Stanley; Goldman Sachs. Everyone now has heard of these banks because these were the 5 main banks that were in trouble.

What the SEC did was this....All banks before this 2004 ruling could lend out (leverage) 12 times their monetary assets. 12 to 1. If a bank has $1 million in assets then they can borrow 11 times that and lend out a total of $12 million. This is how banks make money. This was working.

In 2004, the SEC allowed 5 Investment Banks (Bear Stearns, etc) and only these 5 Banks, the opportunity to lend out 30 times assets (30 to 1) and even up to 40 times assests (40 to 1). This is extremely risky. If anyone has bought stocks on margin, you know how quickly you can either make a lot of money; or lose a lot of money. Since the Investment Banks had permission to do this, they lent out money (issued mortages) at this very highly leveraged rate. Merrill Lynch was leveraged 44 to 1. But to lend all of this new-found money the had to accept loans from less deserving clients. They made a lot more money when times were good. But when times changed, their loses were catastrophic. Way to much leverage which accelerated their loses.

The underlying problem has been partly solved.....we don't have any more Investment Banks - Bear and Lehman went under; Merrill was bought out; and Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs changed their status from Investment Banks to Holding companies of commercial banks. So no one can leverage that highly anymore.

However, we, taxpayers are stuck with the mess. We should skewer our leaders in Gov't for instituting this change in regulations. From President Bush on down. It is more their fault than the CEOs who definitely were greedy, but they were just acting within the regulations.

3. I like the idea of taking back an ownership interest in the companies that ae helped.I find it hypocritical and interesting that Republicans don't like the "giveaway programs to help the needy" in our country, but they are quick to propose a $700 Billion giveaway program/bailout of the banks, that has no accountability and needs to be approved immediately. Geez!

[Edited by - markji on 09-26-2008 11:16 PM]
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
arkrud
Posts: 32217
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9/27/2008  11:01 AM
Posted by Markji:

Many good ideas stated above. A few comments....some new:

1. We need to keep as many people as possible from defaulting on their mortgages. The absolute last thing we want is to have the banks or the gov't take back hundreds of thousands of homes and then have tight controls for new mortgages. No one will be able to buy the homes and they will just sit there. Everyone will lose money.

So the bailout needs to address the people defaulting. Keep their interest rate low - at the rate, even if sub-prime, they were paying so they can continue to pay. Some money coming in to pay off the mortgage is better than no money. This can be regulated with conditions, etc but keep the people owning the homes.

2. The underlying cause of this economic diseaster lies with the SEC in 2004, and therefore with the President, Congress and the SEC Chairman. What they did was grant a huge leverage ability to the 5 investment banks; namely Bear Stearn; Lehman; Merrill Lynch; Morgan Stanley; Goldman Sachs. Everyone now has heard of these banks because these were the 5 main banks that were in trouble.

What the SEC did was this....All banks before this 2004 ruling could lend out (leverage) 12 times their monetary assets. 12 to 1. If a bank has $1 million in assets then they can borrow 11 times that and lend out a total of $12 million. This is how banks make money. This was working.

In 2004, the SEC allowed 5 Investment Banks (Bear Stearns, etc) and only these 5 Banks, the opportunity to lend out 30 times assets (30 to 1) and even up to 40 times assests (40 to 1). This is extremely risky. If anyone has bought stocks on margin, you know how quickly you can either make a lot of money; or lose a lot of money. Since the Investment Banks had permission to do this, they lent out money (issued mortages) at this very highly leveraged rate. Merrill Lynch was leveraged 44 to 1. But to lend all of this new-found money the had to accept loans from less deserving clients. They made a lot more money when times were good. But when times changed, their loses were catastrophic. Way to much leverage which accelerated their loses.

The underlying problem has been partly solved.....we don't have any more Investment Banks - Bear and Lehman went under; Merrill was bought out; and Morgan Stanley and Goldman Sachs changed their status from Investment Banks to Holding companies of commercial banks. So no one can leverage that highly anymore.

However, we, taxpayers are stuck with the mess. We should skewer our leaders in Gov't for instituting this change in regulations. From President Bush on down. It is more their fault than the CEOs who definitely were greedy, but they were just acting within the regulations.

3. I like the idea of taking back an ownership interest in the companies that ae helped.I find it hypocritical and interesting that Republicans don't like the "giveaway programs to help the needy" in our country, but they are quick to propose a $700 Billion giveaway program/bailout of the banks, that has no accountability and needs to be approved immediately. Geez!

[Edited by - markji on 09-26-2008 11:16 PM]

What get as in trouble is conflict of inerests.
Government regulation supouse to protect us taxpayers but people in power are protecting only interest of big money and their own.
Majoity of Americans vote for this people and now we will pay for this. I think it is fair. But will it make us collectively smarter? I doubt it.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
New bailout plan should mirror AIG

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