and Lee is the third wheel we will win 27 games again. No ball movement no defense upfront slow players--individually they have skills together its a drastic mess. If the Knicks management believes that a coach who wants to go uptempo is going to move mainly the two fat arses up and down and have them move the ball they are kidding themselves.

I might be inclined to agree with you. It doesn't matter how good our offense is, our defense will be horrendous once again with those two up front. If Duhon and Chandler get minutes your perimeter D gets better but not sure how much of a difference those guys are going to make to your record. I think eventually these two will be broken up, but we will have to wait for this to occur.

The most interesting thing for me is how D'Antoni deals with Curry/Randolph if their D is no different than it was last year. Will he bench them? Who would replace Curry? The simple fact of the matter is that this team needs someone who can block some shots and give opponents second thoughts about driving to the hoop at will.

Even if Curry is in better shape than last year, as some are saying, he does not have the defensive instincts to be a good defensive center.

If we have a lottery pick next year, and we can choose a very good future C, or a potentially great PG, who would Walsh pick?

IF Curry is actually in "better shape" than he has been since becoming a Knick, he would very well be better on D and all facets of the game. His extra weight has been holding him back for years. When he was slim he showed signs of being the player his talent suggests he should be. Unfortunately he tried to cheat his way to a fit and trim body and he paid for it. If he has now done it the right way and continues along that line over the rest of the year, instead of gaining the weight back, I have no problem with Curry on this team. We can simply look to add a shotblocking big to fill that need.

As for not being able to run Mike's system with Randolph and Curry, I think that remains to be seen. We know Zach can shoot and pass, but we don't know if he "will" pass the ball more frequently. Since we haven't heard one peep about what Zach is doing, there's no way to know if he's actually trying to get in shape to play this faster pace or not. Like Curry he could be more successful if he's in great shape for a change.

I think Waltoni will hold on to both guys and see what they can get out of them. they would still have the trade deadline and next off season to try and move one of them, so I don't feel there's any pressure to do something right now.

Personally I don't believe this team is going to underachieve again under Mike. Unlike Isiah, I think Mike would not hesitate to make the right changes if things don't work out right. Besides I feel he's got the right style for this team anyway. We weren't even running plays last year!!!! There is a difference between no coaching and GREAT coaching, which we'll get from Mike.

I think we can get by in an untempo offense with either of them, but both?

And for that matter, what kind of offense can use both?

Mike said the reason he went small wasn't his philosophy per se, but that he was putting the five best players on the court, and being they were small, he had to play up tempo.

Is there a style that can use two players like Curry & Zach on the floor at the same time?

The one thing I would have hoped for with Zach & Curry is to use both to set screens and picks - they're as wide as four players, and should be able to create a lot of space.

Off course, this probably requires a degree of skill & smarts that they lack.

Posted by EnySpree:

Posted by Cartman718:

eventually might be right after the preseason.

Why do you say that?

d'antoni has eyes. isiah doesn't.

Posted by BRIGGS:

and Lee is the third wheel we will win 27 games again. No ball movement no defense upfront slow players--individually they have skills together its a drastic mess. If the Knicks management believes that a coach who wants to go uptempo is going to move mainly the two fat arses up and down and have them move the ball they are kidding themselves.

completely agree. the only way i would have been excited for this season at this point is if they got rid of zach randolph.

my whole off season plan was to get a good young guard in the draft and ditch ZBO and Marbury. they didn't do any of the above. Gallinari may be good at some point, duhon is servicable, but still, a really disappointing off season.

Posted by EnySpree:

This is why I'm frustrated with the team......

As I stated in various out threads, the Knicks should have drafted Bayless. They coulda still signed Duhon if they wanted. That would mean they have no use for Marbs and Nate......it would have given them no restrictions as far as trading them cuz Bayless is gonna start right away and Duhon is a good player to spell him or possibly finish games until Bayless is completely in control of things.

Drafting Gallo and than saying they see him as a power forward does not immediately help the Knicks. It tells the players on the team and the rest of the league now that you are desperate to move Zach and Lee who are both hard to move now due to Zachs contract and Lee's willingness to fight to stay in ny.

Jerome is still on the roster, and Malik is still not traded yet.

Roberson was signed for what? If they drafted bayless and signed duhon they wouldn't need to sign this guy.

Also in any Zach trade we can expect to pick up extra players. So roberson might get waived anyway.

Also the Bogus Balkman trade? Come on man he wasn't hurting anybody during the off-season at this time. Why would you basically waive him for a throw away 2nd rounder? The Clips and Portland will be making the playoffs and their teams picks will be @ the mid-end of the second round.

Non-sense.......now all the movement is done. Their doesn't even seem like there will be a second wave. Nobody appears available.

Frustrating to say the least

Shades of Scott Layden....

Posted by EnySpree:

This is why I'm frustrated with the team......

As I stated in various out threads, the Knicks should have drafted Bayless. They coulda still signed Duhon if they wanted. That would mean they have no use for Marbs and Nate......it would have given them no restrictions as far as trading them cuz Bayless is gonna start right away and Duhon is a good player to spell him or possibly finish games until Bayless is completely in control of things.

Drafting Gallo and than saying they see him as a power forward does not immediately help the Knicks. It tells the players on the team and the rest of the league now that you are desperate to move Zach and Lee who are both hard to move now due to Zachs contract and Lee's willingness to fight to stay in ny.

Jerome is still on the roster, and Malik is still not traded yet.

Roberson was signed for what? If they drafted bayless and signed duhon they wouldn't need to sign this guy.

Also in any Zach trade we can expect to pick up extra players. So roberson might get waived anyway.

Also the Bogus Balkman trade? Come on man he wasn't hurting anybody during the off-season at this time. Why would you basically waive him for a throw away 2nd rounder? The Clips and Portland will be making the playoffs and their teams picks will be @ the mid-end of the second round.

Non-sense.......now all the movement is done. Their doesn't even seem like there will be a second wave. Nobody appears available.

Frustrating to say the least

I love Bayless and would have been okay with him being picked. That being said, I just watched a Summer League game that I taped. It was when his team played Kevin Love's team. I swear to God I didn't see the guy pass the ball once, and I'm not exaggerating. Is he a point guard? I'm guessing this is one of the reasons he wasn't drafted by D'Antoni

Posted by BRIGGS:

and Lee is the third wheel we will win 27 games again. No ball movement no defense upfront slow players--individually they have skills together its a drastic mess. If the Knicks management believes that a coach who wants to go uptempo is going to move mainly the two fat arses up and down and have them move the ball they are kidding themselves.

Here's my argument BRIGGS. Start Zach at center and use Curry as back-up. Start Lee at PF. You force two things in this scenario. Rebounds, which we know Lee and Zach can do well. Lee may not be a great defensive plus, but he certainly prevents second chance shots by the opposing team. This scenario also forces Curry to play harder because of shared minutes and doesn't all fall back on him. He's big body and that's been his strongest point and that would come in handy in key situations.

I really think that duo would work better. By putting Zach at PF and limiting Lee, it takes a lot away. And by putting Curry in starting center position, well' we already know how much Curry contributes to that spot. So make Curry earn his minutes from now on. I really think that works better. All and all, it certainly increases our rebounding, if nothing else. And that could be the difference of ten more wins on the season. What do ya think?

Curry starting forces Lee on the bench. Curry's had seven years to develop and he hasn't. Fans still don't seem to get it that starbury will never be more than what he's shown himself to be and it looks like they won't recognize Curry's weaknesses either. If you ask me, Lee's earned it! Lee and Zach starting is a much better duo. Throw Chandler on the opposite side and we have a much better back court. More offense and more rebounding. Actually, tremendous rebounding with those three. That's defense right there. It makes more sense, because you can rebound and move the ball down court right away.

You don't have to throw it inbounds (giving the offending team a chance to get set on D), after someone scored on a second chance rebound.

Curry can't rebound. It's a well known fact. We see it every time and we're talking about a huge guy. Not some skinny less then seven footer. And not to mention, he can't block worth a damn neither.

The best thing Curry can do is (and they should teach him this like written in stone) to use his large body to clear out the middle. How many hundreds of times have we seen him stand there, waiting for the ball come down to him? He doesn't move his feet. He has' to move his feet to be effective! Okay, if he can't move his feet, then grab the closest guy to you (preferraribly the biggest guy), get low and shove him out of the middle. Give Lee or Chandler (or whoever) a chance to grab it.

The point is, he has to put his big body to better use. That's his biggest strength. He's not agile, he's not overwhelmingly athletic, he's not real quick either. He's just big. If used right, he can dominate with that. And I bet his rebounding would also improve if he did so.