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To show you what we are up against in terms of payroll for 2010-2011 for free agency
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BRIGGS
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7/5/2008  7:05 PM
The NY knicks have the highest advanced payroll for that year out of all teams without signing David Lee or Gallinari.

The problem is that I think a lot of teams understand that 2010 will be a good FA year and that it will be VERY difficult to pawn off players for thos eyears. It can be done but the odds that the Knicks would be fighting would be very very high.

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nixluva
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7/5/2008  7:19 PM
We have to hope that a team has the same desire to rid themselves of a player as we do, but that whoever we get has a shorter contract. I'm not sure that every team is aiming for 2010 in the same way that we are. There has to be some team out there that has a player they want to trade just as bad as we do. Perhaps there's a team desparate to improve at the PF spot who will take Zach off of our hands. We're not looking for equal talent just shorter contract.
JohnWallace44
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7/5/2008  7:37 PM
You can shave a year off of one of those contracts in a trade as long as they are playing up to their contracts.

At least Crawford should be able to do that.

Lee and Nate need to be traded for future picks or some other long term asset because you'd think that there's no way of fitting them into the LeBron plan.

Honestly though, I do see the Knicks losing out on Lebron. We should stop looking at that as plan A.
D-Wade doesn't make sense to me as a Max player to start a new Knicks era. By that time he'll be so worn down that he won't be worth it at all.

So you're really hoping for Bosch or Kobe? Maybe Paul if he's a free agent by then?

I think the draft has to be the main area that you build through.

We have to make sure that we get something for these players as they come off of the roster. Lee, Nate and Balkman can't just be let go for nothing.

Even with Rose and Marbury I'd consider trading them for players with two years left at the deadline if it were combined with 2010 picks.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
King1
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7/5/2008  8:31 PM
I agree the draft is the way to go and we have a coach that has never developed and player he has drafted
VDesai
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7/5/2008  8:37 PM
Posted by King1:

I agree the draft is the way to go and we have a coach that has never developed and player he has drafted

Except that he had most of his draft picks sold from under him. He did however, develop a 2nd year player he inherited named Stoudemire, develop Leandro Barbosa from a late 20's pick into a scoring machine, develop Boris Diaw from a guy who never got any run or displayed any talent into a versatile, 4 position player and improve the games of two existing stars in Nash and Marion. This ridiculous supposition that he can't develop talent, is just another biased vague argument strengthened only by repetition.
VDesai
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7/5/2008  8:41 PM
And also note that Joe Johnson never really broke out as a player untill he got a chance to play for D'Antoni.
Bonn1997
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7/5/2008  9:17 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The NY knicks have the highest advanced payroll for that year out of all teams without signing David Lee or Gallinari.

The problem is that I think a lot of teams understand that 2010 will be a good FA year and that it will be VERY difficult to pawn off players for thos eyears. It can be done but the odds that the Knicks would be fighting would be very very high.
What you have to realize is that you have to give to get, and that applies to cap space. You're right that it can be done and you have to view cap space as an asset that you would pay for just like a player is something you pay for. The re-tooling approach has failed all decade.
Solace
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7/5/2008  10:25 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

The NY knicks have the highest advanced payroll for that year out of all teams without signing David Lee or Gallinari.

The problem is that I think a lot of teams understand that 2010 will be a good FA year and that it will be VERY difficult to pawn off players for thos eyears. It can be done but the odds that the Knicks would be fighting would be very very high.
What you have to realize is that you have to give to get, and that applies to cap space. You're right that it can be done and you have to view cap space as an asset that you would pay for just like a player is something you pay for. The re-tooling approach has failed all decade.

I think this is the whole thing right here. I would be willing to give guys like Nate, Chandler, Balkman, Collins, Duhon, Crawford, etc... if it helps us shed a contract for one that expires in that timeline. The reality is that if we can keep a few key pieces (whatever those might be) and have the cap room to attract a big free agent or two. To be honest, if we threw in the right players, we might have a shot to get both LeBron and Wade or LeBron and Bosh. You never know.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
TrueBlue
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7/5/2008  10:55 PM
Isn't going after a possible big time free agent in 2010 as comparable as keeping the 6th pick in the draft and not moving down 10 spots?

I mean at least we know what the talent level is of those players who make be available during this summer but we have absolutely no clue of the possible success for a player picked 6th in the draft.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Solace
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7/6/2008  12:35 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Isn't going after a possible big time free agent in 2010 as comparable as keeping the 6th pick in the draft and not moving down 10 spots?

I mean at least we know what the talent level is of those players who make be available during this summer but we have absolutely no clue of the possible success for a player picked 6th in the draft.

I'm afraid you lost me. Are you advocating not keeping lottery picks? I don't want to spend too much time criticizing a pick I don't know enough about to criticize. I just hope it works out -- in order for that to happen, Isiah's role in the pick would have to have been minimal.
Wishing everyone well. I enjoyed posting here for a while, but as I matured I realized this forum isn't for me. We all evolve. Thanks for the memories everyone.
nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  12:41 AM
Posted by VDesai:


Except that he had most of his draft picks sold from under him. He did however, develop a 2nd year player he inherited named Stoudemire, develop Leandro Barbosa from a late 20's pick into a scoring machine, develop Boris Diaw from a guy who never got any run or displayed any talent into a versatile, 4 position player and improve the games of two existing stars in Nash and Marion. This ridiculous supposition that he can't develop talent, is just another biased vague argument strengthened only by repetition.

Posted by VDesai:

And also note that Joe Johnson never really broke out as a player untill he got a chance to play for D'Antoni.

That sounds like a guy who can't develop young players to me.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
4949
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7/6/2008  1:27 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

The NY knicks have the highest advanced payroll for that year out of all teams without signing David Lee or Gallinari.

The problem is that I think a lot of teams understand that 2010 will be a good FA year and that it will be VERY difficult to pawn off players for thos eyears. It can be done but the odds that the Knicks would be fighting would be very very high.

Yeah, thanks to ****'n isiah thomas that jagoff!

Sorry, I lost it there for moment.

This is what I have been saying for the last five years on this board and others.

And this is exactly the reason why we shouldn't make anymore moves (trades) until our financial structure is normal again.
I'll never trust this' team again.
JohnWallace44
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7/6/2008  1:31 AM
That sounds like a guy who can't develop young players to me.

Heh?

Mike D has developed plenty of young players. More than any other coach that comes to mind in the league actually.

The team can't just look to LeBron and I think some of the other players will have a lower value in 2010 like Kobe and Wade. Who knows how good Bosch will be.

More than anything we need our players to be outperforming their contracts so that they are positive assets rather than negative ones.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
4949
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7/6/2008  1:39 AM
Posted by nixluva:

Perhaps there's a team desparate to improve at the PF spot who will take Zach off of our hands. We're not looking for equal talent just shorter contract.

Desperation is exactly' why we are constantly in trouble.

Stop being desperate, have patience and soon our salary cap situation will be good again.

And as those super star free agents become available, we'll have plenty of money to offer them.

If we keep on being desperate, then we'll continue to sign what ever is available at the moment, with no improvement and in cap hell for the rest of our days.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/6/2008  1:48 AM
Posted by King1:

I agree the draft is the way to go and we have a coach that has never developed and player he has drafted

Our coach couldn't possibly be any worse than isiah-diot. That's just not possible. We'll be fine for now. Maybe not playoff bound just yet, but we'll be decent.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/6/2008  1:51 AM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by BRIGGS:

The NY knicks have the highest advanced payroll for that year out of all teams without signing David Lee or Gallinari.

The problem is that I think a lot of teams understand that 2010 will be a good FA year and that it will be VERY difficult to pawn off players for thos eyears. It can be done but the odds that the Knicks would be fighting would be very very high.
What you have to realize is that you have to give to get, and that applies to cap space. You're right that it can be done and you have to view cap space as an asset that you would pay for just like a player is something you pay for. The re-tooling approach has failed all decade.

I think this is the whole thing right here. I would be willing to give guys like Nate, Chandler, Balkman, Collins, Duhon, Crawford, etc... if it helps us shed a contract for one that expires in that timeline. The reality is that if we can keep a few key pieces (whatever those might be) and have the cap room to attract a big free agent or two. To be honest, if we threw in the right players, we might have a shot to get both LeBron and Wade or LeBron and Bosh. You never know.

Might be the right players, but totally the wrong kinds of contracts. Nobody's gonna go for it. Especially' for LeBron. No way Jose!
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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7/6/2008  1:56 AM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Isn't going after a possible big time free agent in 2010 as comparable as keeping the 6th pick in the draft and not moving down 10 spots?

I mean at least we know what the talent level is of those players who make be available during this summer but we have absolutely no clue of the possible success for a player picked 6th in the draft.

No more than what chicago and MIami picked. Nothing is guaranteed, even if it is' a top draft pick. Rose and Beasley could easily end up mediocre. It's happened plenty of times, in basketball and even football. How many Hiesman's went on to star? How many top drafts in the NBA went on to star? A lot, but not all of them. More than likely, Rose and Beasley will do very well, but it's the big time now. You never know.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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7/6/2008  8:22 PM
it's a little funny when people who were saying the Knicks should wait to trade Zach when his contract becomes an expiring are now saying there will be little chance we'll be able to trade him when his contract becomes an expiring... i swear to God i think some of you guys do this on purpose just to rile people up... i can't believe a person can possibly be that fickle.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TrueBlue
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7/6/2008  8:23 PM
Posted by Solace:
Posted by TrueBlue:

Isn't going after a possible big time free agent in 2010 as comparable as keeping the 6th pick in the draft and not moving down 10 spots?

I mean at least we know what the talent level is of those players who make be available during this summer but we have absolutely no clue of the possible success for a player picked 6th in the draft.

I'm afraid you lost me. Are you advocating not keeping lottery picks? I don't want to spend too much time criticizing a pick I don't know enough about to criticize. I just hope it works out -- in order for that to happen, Isiah's role in the pick would have to have been minimal.


I'm directing this towards Briggs. He didn't want to trade down from pick 6 to 16 because of the odds in favor of having the higher draft position but is advocating not doing what we can to preserve cap space when the odds are more in favor of those teams that do in landing a high caliber player who we know what their capabilities are, instead of going all in on pick 6 a player who we don't know how good they'll be.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Ira
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7/7/2008  7:41 AM
That is discouraging, but we probably can lose some of those nasty contracts by taking lesser players in return. Also, other teams, like us, will have young players that will have to be re-signed. For example, Philly offered Iguaodala a $57m extension which he turned down. If they want to keep their best player, they'll have to pay up - big time.
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To show you what we are up against in terms of payroll for 2010-2011 for free agency
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