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High hypocrisy at its finest
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TMS
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6/27/2008  9:38 PM
i've noticed no one is slamming the NJ Nets & the all knowing NBA guru genius Rod Thorn for trading their proven Allstar calibre SF Richard Jefferson for a guy who was taken #6 last year as a 19 yo Chinese kid coming in w/very limited scouting reports & film coverage while playing in what many have dubbed as an "inferior league" & was not nearly as proven or polished of a player as Gallinari is coming into the draft... meanwhile the Knicks are a buncha "Isiah/Dolan schills" for drafting a 19 yo Italian kid coming in w/very limited scouting reports & film coverage while playing in what most NBA experts have dubbed as a comparable if not superior league overall as the NCAA.

i guess people on this forum are just that much smarter than guys like Donnie Walsh & Mike D'Antoni who've been involved in the game of basketball almost all their lives & have built up impeccable reputations universally throughout the league w/sparkling resumes to boot... let's take the word of internet wannabe draft gurus who think what no move a franchise makes is the right one unless it's in accordance with the plans they've laid out after hours & hours of watching NCAA games on TV because they've gotten a few predictions right in the past out of the 10 million they've made.

High hypocrisy at its finest y'all... you can't buy this type of entertainment.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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islesfan
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6/27/2008  9:44 PM
You going to mention all of the cap space that the Nets freed up in 2010? How about we see who they sign that summer? That was obviously a huge part of this deal.

Did the Knicks free up enough cap room to sign the best free agents by signing Gallinari?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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6/27/2008  9:46 PM
dude, i loved what the NJ Nets did... but they also gave up a proven commodity in RJ to get Yi... we didn't have to give up anything to get Gallinari... shouldn't that also factor into this? also as i just mentioned Gallinari comes in as a more polished & proven prospect than Yi Jianlian did last year (& i'm a guy who's wanted to trade for Yi for a while now)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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6/27/2008  9:51 PM
I think they got slammed in some places but they say the cap space and draft selections make up for it.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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6/27/2008  9:54 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I think they got slammed in some places but they say the cap space and draft selections make up for it.

every sports site & review of the draft i've read says the Nets got a grade A for what they did on draft night.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  9:56 PM
Posted by TMS:

dude, i loved what the NJ Nets did... but they also gave up a proven commodity in RJ to get Yi... we didn't have to give up anything to get Gallinari... shouldn't that also factor into this? also as i just mentioned Gallinari comes in as a more polished & proven prospect than Yi Jianlian did last year (& i'm a guy who's wanted to trade for Yi for a while now)

I still don't get why you think there was hypocrisy concerning reactions to the two transactions when they aren't even similar.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
McK1
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6/27/2008  9:56 PM
that team is finished. they are goin nowhere with RJ as a first option. thorn is directing another masterful rebuild. he moved kidd and now rj for younger prospects at the same position. carter likely is next

thon + kiki are so-so in the draft but they are experts at moving huge contracts to free up cap space and acquire picks.

comparing scenarios, taking Galinari makes us the Bucks

[Edited by - McK1 on 27-06-2008 9:58 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
islesfan
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6/27/2008  9:59 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I think they got slammed in some places but they say the cap space and draft selections make up for it.

every sports site & review of the draft i've read says the Nets got a grade A for what they did on draft night.

You don't think they deserved it? They got great value for all 3 of their draft picks, added Yi and set themselves up for a big score in 2010. The same 2010 that Donnie Walsh has targeted as being a franchise changing free agent class. What's not to like?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
fishmike
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6/27/2008  10:01 PM
cap space... lol. It good to pine for something with no measurable value. Since there was no franchise player available at 6 to build around I personally hope we go the route of guys like Dumars and Ainge and win titles.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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6/27/2008  10:02 PM
Posted by islesfan:

I still don't get why you think there was hypocrisy concerning reactions to the two transactions when they aren't even similar.

i think it's hypocritical because i haven't heard 1 mention of the fact that Yi played in an inferior league, or that there was limited knowledge of him coming into the draft... all the talk is about upside potential w/Yi, whereas w/Gallinari it's all about what he's been able to prove & against what level of competition... i've watched all the YouTube footage available on both those kids & personally I don't see where Yi is so much more of a secure pick at #6 as Gallinari is, much less worthy of giving up an Allstar calibre player for while Gallinari was gotten for nothing.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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6/27/2008  10:03 PM
Posted by fishmike:

cap space... lol. It good to pine for something with no measurable value. Since there was no franchise player available at 6 to build around I personally hope we go the route of guys like Dumars and Ainge and win titles.

i think NJ did a great job w/that trade & cap space was a big part of it... but that still doesn't equate why there has been no talk at all about Yi's unknown status while everyone is pining about Gallinari's.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  10:03 PM
Posted by McK1:



comparing scenarios, taking Galinari makes us the Bucks

[Edited by - McK1 on 27-06-2008 9:58 PM]

That's the comparision right there that should be made.

The Bucks got very mediocre grades for drafting Yi. I saw one C and 2 Incompletes.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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6/27/2008  10:06 PM
Posted by fishmike:

cap space... lol. It good to pine for something with no measurable value. Since there was no franchise player available at 6 to build around I personally hope we go the route of guys like Dumars and Ainge and win titles.

You really need to make up your mind. One day you mock cap space and the next you think "max cap space" is worth targeting for a rebuilding team in trade proposals for their best player. Now you're saying it has no measurable value.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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6/27/2008  10:12 PM
when i presented a trade idea of D Lee for Yi a month ago not 1 poster on this board told me it was a bad trade to make because of Yi's upside potential & the fact that his skillset seemed like a good match for Mike D's new system.

if i presented a trade today of Lee for Gallinari i have a feeling there'd be all kinds of disagreements over it from those who wanted us to draft someone else.

am i wrong here?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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6/27/2008  10:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by fishmike:

cap space... lol. It good to pine for something with no measurable value. Since there was no franchise player available at 6 to build around I personally hope we go the route of guys like Dumars and Ainge and win titles.

You really need to make up your mind. One day you mock cap space and the next you think "max cap space" is worth targeting for a rebuilding team in trade proposals for their best player. Now you're saying it has no measurable value.
you really need to post something... I count about 10 in the last 30 minutes and what have you said? Nothing. All you do is misquote me because your cant risk actually saying something. Thats cool... I know where you stand.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
BasketballJones
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6/27/2008  10:15 PM
Hmm. Did I wind up on http://www.ultimatenets.com by mistake? I thought this was a Knicks board?
https:// It's not so hard.
TMS
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6/27/2008  10:15 PM
ur not getting me w/that one
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  10:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by islesfan:

I still don't get why you think there was hypocrisy concerning reactions to the two transactions when they aren't even similar.

i think it's hypocritical because i haven't heard 1 mention of the fact that Yi played in an inferior league, or that there was limited knowledge of him coming into the draft... all the talk is about upside potential w/Yi, whereas w/Gallinari it's all about what he's been able to prove & against what level of competition... i've watched all the YouTube footage available on both those kids & personally I don't see where Yi is so much more of a secure pick at #6 as Gallinari is, much less worthy of giving up an Allstar calibre player for while Gallinari was gotten for nothing.

From DraftExpress:

Milwaukee Bucks

Picks: Yi Jianlian (#6), Ramon Sessions (#56)

Incomplete

There is really no way to evaluate this pick at this early juncture, considering that we just don’t know exactly what the reaction of Yi Jianlian’s camp will be to Milwaukee drafting him in spite of their wishes. If all goes well, this could look like a decent pick in a few years, since it makes a lot of sense for him to start as a backup in a smaller market where he won’t have as much pressure on him. It’ll be a few years regardless to know for sure how this turned out.

From CNNSI.com:

Grade C Milwaukee Bucks
Yi Jianlian (6); Ramon Sessions (56)

GM Larry Harris took a huge gamble by using his top pick on Yi, who apparently doesn't want to play in Milwaukee. If Harris can't parlay it into a trade (hello, Golden State), he might someday regret passing on Corey Brewer or Brandan Wright.

From ESPN.com:

Milwaukee Bucks Grade: Inc.

Round 1: Yi Jianlian (6)

Round 2: Ramon Sessions (56)

Analysis: From a talent perspective, the Bucks made the right choice. But will Yi ever play in Milwaukee?

The Bucks knew they were taking a risk because they knew Yi's camp didn't want him in Milwaukee. And now that the pick is made, Yi's camp probably will push for a trade.

If the Bucks have their way, they'll be rewarded with a player with tremendous potential.



If anything the Yi pick was questioned a lot more than the Gallinari pick.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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6/27/2008  10:22 PM
that draft pick was highly questioned for reasons other than just the unknown factor... the guy had publically said he did not wanna play there & would threaten to hold out if they picked him... that carries all kindsa red flags but they took him anyway... scouts were all talking this kid up a ton coming into the draft yet i didn't hear much talk around here that the Bucks would be idiots if they drafted him... all i heard was that he was an ungrateful Chinaman who should go back to China if he didn't wanna play in the NBA.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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6/27/2008  10:29 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by fishmike:

cap space... lol. It good to pine for something with no measurable value. Since there was no franchise player available at 6 to build around I personally hope we go the route of guys like Dumars and Ainge and win titles.

You really need to make up your mind. One day you mock cap space and the next you think "max cap space" is worth targeting for a rebuilding team in trade proposals for their best player. Now you're saying it has no measurable value.
you really need to post something... I count about 10 in the last 30 minutes and what have you said? Nothing. All you do is misquote me because your cant risk actually saying something. Thats cool... I know where you stand.

You're really going to play the "I was misquoted" card?

I was actually having a very interesting and civil conversation with TMS before you decided to interrupt it with your on again off again "max cap space" is important for rebuilding teams.

Unfortunately when you're that much of a hypocrite, we have no idea where you stand.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
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