Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Posted by falcindor:

This guy is going to suprise you guys. He has the talent to be an all-star. NY is giving him his "shot" at being that. He has rare talent but his drive is the only thing that can be challenged. This is alot like the Camby trade. I think NY will come out on top like they did on Camby. Van Horn at 27 still has potential to be a stud in this league.

I don't see it happening with him. The cat is too soft for what we need on this team. To me he's just a taller, softer Allan Houston with less skill.

This reminds me more of the Charles Smith trade that the Camby deal.
This time next year these boards will be full of posts suggesting how to get him the hell outta here.

Scott LayDown is giving KVH a shot... We may end up wishing someone would give LayDown a shot...LOL

Posted by knicksbb10:

Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Posted by falcindor:

This guy is going to suprise you guys. He has the talent to be an all-star. NY is giving him his "shot" at being that. He has rare talent but his drive is the only thing that can be challenged. This is alot like the Camby trade. I think NY will come out on top like they did on Camby. Van Horn at 27 still has potential to be a stud in this league.

I don't see it happening with him. The cat is too soft for what we need on this team. To me he's just a taller, softer Allan Houston with less skill.

This reminds me more of the Charles Smith trade that the Camby deal.
This time next year these boards will be full of posts suggesting how to get him the hell outta here.

Scott LayDown is giving KVH a shot... We may end up wishing someone would give LayDown a shot...LOL

I will have to disagree with you man. Falcindor made a good point about KVH surprising all of you.
The odds are that he won't. Look at his history. We will see this year.

LAydown and CHaney had a goal to make this team bigger and longer. They did that!!
The goal is to make the team BETTER. They failed miserably at that. You say bigger, yes... longer, okay, but better??? Huh? What? Hell NO. And when did Scott LayDown and Done Chaney become such visionaries? LMAO

In the NBA, it isn't that easy to acquire height along with rebounding.
Yeah, 6'10" 7.4RPG softees are like diamonds in the rough. Tell me all about it.

In this situation the knicks did that by acquiring Van Horn who will be playiing the small forward position under Don Chaney. We all know his defense isn't great at all but Chaney will utilize the defense where KVH's defense skills won't be expose as much.
Aside from hiding him in the locker room, ther is no way to NOT expose his lack of D.

Hey, Knicks might start playing zone defenses since it is now allowed in the N.B.A.
That's supposed to stop the opposing teams' scorers? Really? LOL

We're not looking for KVH to be a superstar, we're just looking fo him to compliment the other starters on the team.
Now see, some of your fellow KVH fans believe otherwise. They are talking like he's gonna be an all-star. Smoking that much crack can kill a man.

Sprewell did not fit into Don Chaney's system cause of several reasons especially playing out of position and not really not your typical average rebounder.
How many rebounds did our PF and C positions get? Where's the accountability there?

LIKE CHANEY AND VAN'S HORN'S FORMER COACH MAJERUS SAID, everyone seemed to concentrate on the negatives but have not mentioned any pluses pertaining to Van Horn.
The dude is on his third team in 3 years. I don't give the slightest bit of a damn what Done Chaney says. Let Majerus take Van Horn back to Utah.

Allan Houston was being killed for his defense over his career but under Chaney he heavily improved his defense.
What defense? We'll see what defensive liability looks like when he has Van Horn trying to help him guard the opposing scorers that Spree would defend. That "improved defense" notion will go out the window, through the glass, on its ***.

LOOK @ his stats from last season. Honestly, the knicks will be find and just wait to see if any more moves are on the way....

Without Spree having Allan's back, I believe his stats will drop dramatically. Maybe not points (even though the man he'll be "defending" will propbably score more), but all the other stats. Fact is, at the end of most nights, the outcome will be a loss.

My better sense won't let me put any stock into LayDown and his asinine logic system.

By the look of Scott LayDown's history, any other moves will ensure the inevitable- a first-class seat in the 2004 lottery. He wants a #1 pick to screw up next. It's the only thing he has yet to do. Seems like he's working hard to get there.

For once, he just may succeed.

Posted by knicksbb10:

Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Posted by knicksbb10:

Posted by HARDCOREKNICKSFAN:

Posted by falcindor:

This guy is going to suprise you guys. He has the talent to be an all-star. NY is giving him his "shot" at being that. He has rare talent but his drive is the only thing that can be challenged. This is alot like the Camby trade. I think NY will come out on top like they did on Camby. Van Horn at 27 still has potential to be a stud in this league.

I don't see it happening with him. The cat is too soft for what we need on this team. To me he's just a taller, softer Allan Houston with less skill.

This reminds me more of the Charles Smith trade that the Camby deal.
This time next year these boards will be full of posts suggesting how to get him the hell outta here.

Scott LayDown is giving KVH a shot... We may end up wishing someone would give LayDown a shot...LOL

I will have to disagree with you man. Falcindor made a good point about KVH surprising all of you.
The odds are that he won't. Look at his history. We will see this year.

LAydown and CHaney had a goal to make this team bigger and longer. They did that!!
The goal is to make the team BETTER. They failed miserably at that. You say bigger, yes... longer, okay, but better??? Huh? What? Hell NO. And when did Scott LayDown and Done Chaney become such visionaries? LMAO

In the NBA, it isn't that easy to acquire height along with rebounding.
Yeah, 6'10" 7.4RPG softees are like diamonds in the rough. Tell me all about it.

In this situation the knicks did that by acquiring Van Horn who will be playiing the small forward position under Don Chaney. We all know his defense isn't great at all but Chaney will utilize the defense where KVH's defense skills won't be expose as much.
Aside from hiding him in the locker room, ther is no way to NOT expose his lack of D.

Hey, Knicks might start playing zone defenses since it is now allowed in the N.B.A.
That's supposed to stop the opposing teams' scorers? Really? LOL

We're not looking for KVH to be a superstar, we're just looking fo him to compliment the other starters on the team.
Now see, some of your fellow KVH fans believe otherwise. They are talking like he's gonna be an all-star. Smoking that much crack can kill a man.

Sprewell did not fit into Don Chaney's system cause of several reasons especially playing out of position and not really not your typical average rebounder.
How many rebounds did our PF and C positions get? Where's the accountability there?

LIKE CHANEY AND VAN'S HORN'S FORMER COACH MAJERUS SAID, everyone seemed to concentrate on the negatives but have not mentioned any pluses pertaining to Van Horn.
The dude is on his third team in 3 years. I don't give the slightest bit of a damn what Done Chaney says. Let Majerus take Van Horn back to Utah.

Allan Houston was being killed for his defense over his career but under Chaney he heavily improved his defense.
What defense? We'll see what defensive liability looks like when he has Van Horn trying to help him guard the opposing scorers that Spree would defend. That "improved defense" notion will go out the window, through the glass, on its ***.

LOOK @ his stats from last season. Honestly, the knicks will be find and just wait to see if any more moves are on the way....

Without Spree having Allan's back, I believe his stats will drop dramatically. Maybe not points (even though the man he'll be "defending" will propbably score more), but all the other stats. Fact is, at the end of most nights, the outcome will be a loss.

My better sense won't let me put any stock into LayDown and his asinine logic system.

By the look of Scott LayDown's history, any other moves will ensure the inevitable- a first-class seat in the 2004 lottery. He wants a #1 pick to screw up next. It's the only thing he has yet to do. Seems like he's working hard to get there.

For once, he just may succeed.

Bottom line, you act as Knick mgmt is done dealing, they're not! Let's wait and see how the roster is structured til training camp. That's all we can ask for... Have faith in ya team!!

Faith in the team is one thing, faith in an *** backwards management crew is another.

Posted by spencerdoobie:

All right fellas, i am just going to throw my two cents in about this deal and not get into any specefic arguments, but I must say that hardcoreknicksfan is a moron........
Now I don't even know who the hell you are... But coming from the likes of you, fella, I proudly accept your adolescent opinion as a compliment. LMAO You started it, and I will finish with this and you in the most efficient manner possible.

the bottom line is, did this trade make the knicks a better basketball team? yes it did.
Okay sure. What a genius.

did it swing the balance of power in the east or even in the atlantic in the knicks favor? absoloutley not.
A sliver of rational thought in that hollow brain.

in my opinion, van horn is the best we could have hoped for in return for spree.

latrell was an all star calibur player 3 years back, but not anymore, not even close.
Sonny, try using the spellcheck next time.

he was exciting to watch and brought some much needed fire to the garden on many nights, but he also caused problems with coaches and management, forced the issue on offense, sulked at times on "D" and overall was becoming more and more inconsistnet.
The problems w/coaches were blown out of proportion (even Van Gundy admitted that); what he said about management was exactly what every fan with sense wished we could tell them; he demanded the ball and took the shots he needed to take (even moreso when he was older); Even when he supposedly "sulked on D", who defended better than him??; He was more and more WHAT??? PLease.

he had some great years here in NY, but his best years as a basketball player are behind him and it's the right time to trade him. if we waited any longer we may not have recieved ANY value in return.
Trading him for Van Horn is a joke.

it is common knowledge that spree does not even pick up a basketball during the off season and hardly spends any time working out when he doesn't have to.
So he never did any conditioning in the offseasons? OK, hater.

young players with spree-type athleticism can get away with that, but not players in their mid 30's. my prediction is that spree will give minnesota a couple of solid years, provide them with some spark and memorable moments, and then we will see a dramatic fall off in his game.
He may, then he may not. Over the years he's broadened his game. He will be okay.

van horn on the other hand is five years younger than spree, has good work habits, always keeps himself in shape and had 6-8 more years of good solid basketball in him.
He can play the rest of his career in NY and he'll still be soft, play no D, and be rendered invisible when he's needed most- in the clutch.

is he an all star? no. will he lead us to a championship? no.
Thanks for stating the obvious. We all needed to be clued in on that.

but he gives us ligitimate size at the three, is capable of playing the four in some situations (i hope chaney doen't match kvh up with kmart when the nets visit the garden)
He'll have the same trouble with 90% of the opposition.

is a very profecient offensive rebounder and provides matchup problems for opposing defenses.
Oh yeah, those boatloads of rebounds ae gonna help us get over the hump.

he will give us 16 and 8 every night and occasionlly will go off for about 26-32.
And his opposition will double his output. Much too easy.

true, he does have a tendency to have those nortorious 2-9, 5 point, 3 rebound games, but last i remeber spree was not exactly a model of consistency either.
Get ready for significantly more nights like that. Spree was much more consistent than this guy.

he will have big games and he will have times when he will dissapear, we should expect that. we know what we are getting in this deal and despite what many of you think, it's not half bad.
No, it's completely bad.

he is a very skilled player with some obvious limitations,
That statement is an oxymoron, and yes the pun is intended. Score one for the spelling bee champion.

but I will take a 27 year old 6-10 small forward with a very smooth jump shot and a overall profecient offensive game, who will cause no distractions, over an aging player with really only one solid consistent attribute and that's his explosivness and athleticism.
Allan Houston was already in place. We needed another version of him that bad, huh?

(by the way, what is the first thing to go for a basketball player as he is aging? thats right, athleticism. what the hell is spree going to do without his explosivness?) spree is capable of having big offensive nights but overall he is inconsistent and sulks when things are not going his way.
We'll see if Allan and Van Horn (who has done that before) will want to sulk this coming season.

he is a very good on the ball defender when he feels like it, but he cheats too much and does not play the kind of "d" he is capable of if he is shooting poorly.
Cheating?? What games were YOU watching? LOL

his problems with coaches and managemet have been well documented and i think his departure will be a breath of fresh air for the coaching staff. limitng distractions are always a good thing, and we know spree always added distractions.
That one is just too asinine for me to even acknowledge.

look, we all know that our knicks are in toruble for the next few years, but i think the moves we made this off season thus far make us better at the end of the day.
Draft, yes. Trades? You're crazy.

i have been at the rocky mountain review in salt lake for the last week and i think lampe has a chance to be a nice player.
OK, so you are pro-Utah. the bias has been exposed.

he is a few years away from making an impact, but he has good size and a nice touch on his outside shot. i am excited about his future with the knicks. i like the kvh trade and that is coming from a true spree fan.
Spree fan??? After I had to dissect your mudslinging attempt? Save it.

i will miss his break away dunks, his hot streaks when nobody in the league can guard him, his heart and his fire. but this trade needed to be made and i think the knicks are a better team today than they were yesterday.
You sounded good till that last line. This team is in bad shape. Clean your glasses and peep the clear picture.


ok, i am tired. good night all.
Sonny, you sure are tired. In fact, it sounds like you're asleep right now. Do us all a favor and wake the hell up. You brought this on yourself.

WHen you finally wake up, read the NY Daily News article by Mike Lupica- one of the best columnists on the Knicks. He agrees with me so I guess he's a "moron" too.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/story/103346p-93529c.html


IDIOT.



[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 07/24/2003 04:11:07]

Posted by technomaster:

Hey... no one had any comments about my post. :) About KVH's nice performances in game's 5 and 6 of the 1st round series. About how he produced his stats the last 2 years on playoff-bound teams--- how he was a top scorer on a team that made it to the finals.

Sure, he's been contained. Sprewell's been contained. Even the great Tony Parker was contained. It happens, and it really sucks. But those moments don't define a young player's career.

Do people talk about how Paul Pierce shot under 40% in the playoffs and tell him to stop shooting?

Has anyone had the balls to tell Iverson to control his shots.

Hasn't Kobe Bryant (suspected sexual criminal) managed to become one of the top players in the NBA in spite of those consecutive airballs in the playoffs early in his career?

Come on, let's keep our judgments on KVH to ourselves until we get to see him play for us. Until then, this is all speculation.

Actually, it'd probably be more accurate to say he exceeded his 'normal' post-season production in those particular games that you mentioned.

His post-season ppg avg is 5 points below his regular season average (17 reg, 12 postseason) and that's not speculation or an abberation. It's a fact and his proven trend.

Comparing KVH to Pierce, Ivo or Kobe is ridiculous, to say the least. Obviously we have no choice but to see how he produces here and hope for the best, but based on what I've seen from this guy from Day One in the L, what you've seen is what you're going to get. Sure, he'll have his 20pt, 15reb games, but just as likely that'll be followed up by a 6pt, 2reb game.