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OT: "There Are No Sacred Cows"... Dumars
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TrueBlue
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6/4/2008  11:18 AM
Looks like all Pistons are on the block. I'm assuming he's open to including Stuckey and Maxiell.

There were other interesting quotes from this article namely the ones where Dumars seems a little full of himself by his comments on the coaching over their successful run the past 6yrs.
AUBURN HILLS, Mich. - In the morning, the Detroit Pistons fired Flip Saunders. By the afternoon, the players were put on notice. "I'm not going to sit here and make Flip the scapegoat," president of basketball operations Joe Dumars said Tuesday. "Everybody is in play."

Dumars publicly put his entire lineup on the trading block, less than a week after the Pistons lost in the Eastern Conference final for the third straight year.

Among those available: Four players who have been together since winning the 2004 NBA title together, plus another starter who just finished his fourth season with the team.

"There are no sacred cows here," Dumars said. "You lose that sacred-cow status when you lose three straight years."


http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/basketball/bulls/sns-ap-bkn-pistons-saunders,0,6687551.story



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-04-2008 10:21 AM]
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
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K22
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6/4/2008  11:21 AM
Trying to sell high - while they still have high value?
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
djsunyc
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6/4/2008  11:25 AM
tayshaun for josh howard
sheed for camby + filler
McK1
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6/4/2008  11:30 AM
get rid of that chucklehead Chauncey
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
TrueBlue
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6/4/2008  11:30 AM
Posted by K22:

Trying to sell high - while they still have high value?


I think it's worth noting that maybe with one more final tweak they could be back in the Finals. Get another player in there and hire the right coach and they have just as good a chance in the East as anybody else. But Dumars is thinking Long-Term. He's letting the fans know right off the top changes are coming and while he might not blow everything up in one off-season, through time there will be a dismantling and everyone is in play along the way. I'm sure most of their fan base is on board with this line of thinking meanwhile with our organization and our fans, at least when I SAY UGH was running the show, we had the nerve to be taking people off the table in trades or not willing to include certain players in trades and we've stunk worst than a Dirty Pamper the past 6yrs. Big up to arrogant Joe-D for acknowledging what needs to be done and not trying to eek minimal instant gratification results out of roster with a short ceiling.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
McK1
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6/4/2008  11:37 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

tayshaun for josh howard
sheed for camby + filler

chauncey for maggette + filler and the Clips 2008 pick
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
djsunyc
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6/4/2008  11:39 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by djsunyc:

tayshaun for josh howard
sheed for camby + filler

chauncey for maggette + filler and the Clips 2008 pick

that works too...
TrueBlue
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6/4/2008  11:48 AM
Posted by McK1:
Posted by djsunyc:

tayshaun for josh howard
sheed for camby + filler

chauncey for maggette + filler and the Clips 2008 pick

Clips aren't looking for a point. They want a 2 guard in the worst way and they've all but let it be known if Gordon is on the board that's who they want. The Clippers still have Livingston. Yes the kid obliterated his knee but I think he comes back healthy enough to be their starter and lead them. Plus they have Brevin and possibly Dickau(FA)
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
tkf
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6/4/2008  11:58 AM
I remember a few years ago when i said, that taking Darko would haunt the pistons, most people felt that was not a big deal, since Prince emerged as a key player.. Well Imagine if they had a wade or carmello instead of drafting darko.. the pistons really lack a real closer down the stretch of big games, a guy like melo would have been ideal, as would wade... but hey, dumars is a genius I guess, so we will let that slide. right?

I think the pistons got a little lucky, Larry Brown came in and worked his one year magic vs a laker team that was talented but in a little bit of dissaray.... Now the pistons have lost 3 years in a row and dumars probably wishes he had that pick back..
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cosmic
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6/4/2008  12:08 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by K22:

Trying to sell high - while they still have high value?


I think it's worth noting that maybe with one more final tweak they could be back in the Finals. Get another player in there and hire the right coach and they have just as good a chance in the East as anybody else. But Dumars is thinking Long-Term. He's letting the fans know right off the top changes are coming and while he might not blow everything up in one off-season, through time there will be a dismantling and everyone is in play along the way. I'm sure most of their fan base is on board with this line of thinking meanwhile with our organization and our fans, at least when I SAY UGH was running the show, we had the nerve to be taking people off the table in trades or not willing to include certain players in trades and we've stunk worst than a Dirty Pamper the past 6yrs. Big up to arrogant Joe-D for acknowledging what needs to be done and not trying to eek minimal instant gratification results out of roster with a short ceiling.

The loss of Ben Wallace - who even if they kept would have been a loss at present given his rapid decline (so it was good to let him walk, but, they never replaced him so it's hurt them) ---- and the decline of Sheed (hes a huge part of their success) hints that maybe they have gone as far as possible with this roster.

I don't think you can replace BOTH (wallaces) which is maybe what they would need to do (given their 1-2-3 starters are great). Billups is starting to also show signs of wear and tear so that may be another problem they will be facing.

Even though they have a fantastic core the tough question is whether or not to enjoy being in the ECF or 2nd round for the next 2 seasons before an even bigger drop off occurs - or do you have a fire sale of which you could acquire a number of promising assets for the future - BUT - in the near time kiss goodbye to being an EC super power?

Fans might say rebuild now while the players have high value. Owners might say keep plugging along because it's a given we'll be in the playoffs for the next two or three years with or without major additions or changes then worry about player value and an inevitable rebuild.



As to the KNICKS the problem was always the same: Rash trades with no regard to chemistry and need that was then compounded by confusion as to why all that talent couldn't win which was then reacted to yet ANOTHER rash trade to "put them over the top" or "to add a missing piece" or "to add a glue guy to make it work". The problem with the Knicks and all their moves after the Marbury trade was a perception that the core was good and was always just one more piece away. That's why certain players were likely not included to make the potentially better trades go down.

Unfortunately for the franchise and the fans only Isiah and whomever he had control
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K22
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6/4/2008  12:13 PM
Posted by tkf:

I think the pistons got a little lucky, Larry Brown came in and worked his one year magic vs a laker team that was talented but in a little bit of dissaray....

Understatement of the year.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
TrueBlue
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6/4/2008  12:27 PM
Posted by K22:
Posted by tkf:

I think the pistons got a little lucky, Larry Brown came in and worked his one year magic vs a laker team that was talented but in a little bit of dissaray....

Understatement of the year.

LB did follow that up with a Finals meeting with the Spurs and lost a game 7 so let's not chalk it all up as a Fluke, although you could asterisk the actual 4-1 Series against the Lakers.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
TrueBlue
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6/4/2008  12:32 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by K22:

Trying to sell high - while they still have high value?


I think it's worth noting that maybe with one more final tweak they could be back in the Finals. Get another player in there and hire the right coach and they have just as good a chance in the East as anybody else. But Dumars is thinking Long-Term. He's letting the fans know right off the top changes are coming and while he might not blow everything up in one off-season, through time there will be a dismantling and everyone is in play along the way. I'm sure most of their fan base is on board with this line of thinking meanwhile with our organization and our fans, at least when I SAY UGH was running the show, we had the nerve to be taking people off the table in trades or not willing to include certain players in trades and we've stunk worst than a Dirty Pamper the past 6yrs. Big up to arrogant Joe-D for acknowledging what needs to be done and not trying to eek minimal instant gratification results out of roster with a short ceiling.

The loss of Ben Wallace - who even if they kept would have been a loss at present given his rapid decline (so it was good to let him walk, but, they never replaced him so it's hurt them) ---- and the decline of Sheed (hes a huge part of their success) hints that maybe they have gone as far as possible with this roster.

I don't think you can replace BOTH (wallaces) which is maybe what they would need to do (given their 1-2-3 starters are great). Billups is starting to also show signs of wear and tear so that may be another problem they will be facing.

Even though they have a fantastic core the tough question is whether or not to enjoy being in the ECF or 2nd round for the next 2 seasons before an even bigger drop off occurs - or do you have a fire sale of which you could acquire a number of promising assets for the future - BUT - in the near time kiss goodbye to being an EC super power?

Fans might say rebuild now while the players have high value. Owners might say keep plugging along because it's a given we'll be in the playoffs for the next two or three years with or without major additions or changes then worry about player value and an inevitable rebuild.



As to the KNICKS the problem was always the same: Rash trades with no regard to chemistry and need that was then compounded by confusion as to why all that talent couldn't win which was then reacted to yet ANOTHER rash trade to "put them over the top" or "to add a missing piece" or "to add a glue guy to make it work". The problem with the Knicks and all their moves after the Marbury trade was a perception that the core was good and was always just one more piece away. That's why certain players were likely not included to make the potentially better trades go down.


Unfortunately for the franchise and the fans only Isiah and whomever he had control

After the Curry trade the team should have been dismantled but Pride and Agendas got in the way. With Joe-D although he's arrogant he's not too prideful to recognize the climate of which he's operating in. I think Detroit fans understand this also.
LMFAO @ the Bio [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephon_Marbury[/url]
Nalod
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6/4/2008  12:38 PM
Posted by K22:
Posted by tkf:

I think the pistons got a little lucky, Larry Brown came in and worked his one year magic vs a laker team that was talented but in a little bit of dissaray....

Understatement of the year.

Certainly the Pistons caught them at a good time, but the Lakes did make the NBA finals. How disfunctional can you be to do that?

tkf
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6/4/2008  12:47 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by K22:
Posted by tkf:

I think the pistons got a little lucky, Larry Brown came in and worked his one year magic vs a laker team that was talented but in a little bit of dissaray....

Understatement of the year.

LB did follow that up with a Finals meeting with the Spurs and lost a game 7 so let's not chalk it all up as a Fluke, although you could asterisk the actual 4-1 Series against the Lakers.

I am not saying it was a fluke at all, but it was almost a perfect storm, A great coach in larry brown, with a playoff ready team in the pistons and a laker team that had two of the leagues best players in a bit of dissaray. Kobe and shaq were feuding and their bench with malone was aging and injured, and not as talented....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
EnySpree
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6/4/2008  1:08 PM
Dumars has been riding this chemistry for too long now. He does have a crop of young guys to trade.

Nobody likes our guys man but Eddy curry could fit in detroit......Eddy would have a crew of leaders on the court with him. Able passers and ball movers. They have a hole that is the 4 spot. How wide open did their team look when Dyess got hot against Boston?....Wallace @ center only works cuz of his arms and his jumpshot. Wallace could slide back to the 4 or instead of Curry they can take on Zach. Zach has the same swagger the current group has. He's teamed with Sheed before in Portland. The Knicks can take back Stucky and that kid from UCLA. Maybe amir Johnson too......the Pistons really could use Elton Brand but Zach is right behind the dude.

Edit: all of the core guys in detroit are signed for 2-3 years. They are pretty screwed unless they look to make a few lateral trades. Their team is wound so tight how do you even do it?

Well I came up with this trade idea:

Zach for Dyess, Amir Johnson, stucky and affalo. Dyess contract is shorter than Zachs but Zachs contract is worth more than any player on detroit. I think it wakes them better though without tampering too much to their chemistry.

From a Knicks standpoint? Dyess is still a #1 bigman reserve. He could back up David Lee or start. Amir Johnson also could start one day. Stucky and affalo could both one day start. Their motors are pretty good to match their skills.

[Edited by - enyspree on 04-06-2008 1:43 PM]
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playa2
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6/5/2008  8:28 AM
Posted by tkf:

I remember a few years ago when i said, that taking Darko would haunt the pistons, most people felt that was not a big deal, since Prince emerged as a key player.. Well Imagine if they had a wade or carmello instead of drafting darko.. the pistons really lack a real closer down the stretch of big games, a guy like melo would have been ideal, as would wade... but hey, dumars is a genius I guess, so we will let that slide. right?

I really doubt that dumars made the darko pick without being persuaded by management.

Without Tayshaun Prince(INSERT MELLO- NOT), who blocks reggie miller's breakaway layup that turns the ECF around in favor of the Pistons and they go on to win the chip against the fakers.

It's not about dynasty in the association unless you have this post player who's unstoppable(tim duncan) or all-world talent like Kobe Bryant.

Teams are happy just to win a chip for one yr just like miami heat with shaq and Wade.



[Edited by - playa2 on 05-06-2008 08:33]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Nalod
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6/5/2008  9:16 AM
Posted by playa2:
Posted by tkf:

I remember a few years ago when i said, that taking Darko would haunt the pistons, most people felt that was not a big deal, since Prince emerged as a key player.. Well Imagine if they had a wade or carmello instead of drafting darko.. the pistons really lack a real closer down the stretch of big games, a guy like melo would have been ideal, as would wade... but hey, dumars is a genius I guess, so we will let that slide. right?

I really doubt that dumars made the darko pick without being persuaded by management.

Without Tayshaun Prince(INSERT MELLO- NOT), who blocks reggie miller's breakaway layup that turns the ECF around in favor of the Pistons and they go on to win the chip against the fakers.

It's not about dynasty in the association unless you have this post player who's unstoppable(tim duncan) or all-world talent like Kobe Bryant.

Teams are happy just to win a chip for one yr just like miami heat with shaq and Wade.



[Edited by - playa2 on 05-06-2008 08:33]


What makes you think Dumars did not pick Darko?


Panos
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6/5/2008  11:13 AM
Posted by tkf:



I am not saying it was a fluke at all, but it was almost a perfect storm, A great coach in larry brown, with a playoff ready team in the pistons and a laker team that had two of the leagues best players in a bit of dissaray. Kobe and shaq were feuding and their bench with malone was aging and injured, and not as talented....


This is revisionist history. Lakers tore through the playoffs, and not a single person expected the Pistons to beat the Lakers. Everyone thought it was a fluke that they even got that far. People thought it was a fluke even when it was over.
fishmike
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6/5/2008  11:40 AM
Posted by Panos:
Posted by tkf:



I am not saying it was a fluke at all, but it was almost a perfect storm, A great coach in larry brown, with a playoff ready team in the pistons and a laker team that had two of the leagues best players in a bit of dissaray. Kobe and shaq were feuding and their bench with malone was aging and injured, and not as talented....


This is revisionist history. Lakers tore through the playoffs, and not a single person expected the Pistons to beat the Lakers. Everyone thought it was a fluke that they even got that far. People thought it was a fluke even when it was over.
Lakers beat Rockets 4-1, Spurs 4-2 and Wolves 4-2. I would say they were pretty focused. Pistons beat them 4-1 and most of those games were not even close. They were totally outplayed and out coached. I still say what LB did with that team was the best coaching I have ever seen hands down. Remember they were down 2-3 against NJ also

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OT: "There Are No Sacred Cows"... Dumars

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