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Looking back at Suns roster from 04-05 when they won 62
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BRIGGS
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5/17/2008  2:58 PM
They have superstars at every position and Q rich was a solid 5th starter. Off the bench[which was s hort bench] they have
Barbosa Hunter and Jackson.


Players--Amare Stoudemire # 26-10 C 6-10 56%
Shawn Marion 20-11 F 6-7 48%
Joe Johnson 17-5-4 F 6-8 46%
Q 13-6-2 G 6-6 38%
Nash 17-11 G 6-3 50%


2000/7000 shots were 3s=29 % of shots from 3 @ 40 % effeciency

So a few things come to mind---our roster is absolutely nothing like theirs. I think the perception is they take a tremenous amount of 3s and on basis they do but more than 70% of their shots are from 2 point land and they were making those 2 at better than 50% meaning a lot of lay ups and dunks. I think the perception is were going to get a rebound run down and shoot 3s and that is not true--atleast based on this model--so we cant OVER focus on bringing in 3 point capable shooters but rather maybe 1 guy who can shoot them with athletic size at a better %
One thing that does stand out is the clear differnce in talent-they had superstars all over the place--so I think that has a lot to do with why they won 62 games--we can play different but with the same guys the results may not be that different.
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franco12
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5/17/2008  3:48 PM
Briggs- the thing I think we can look forward to with D'Antoni is that he will bring a scheme that gets the most out of what our players have.

Whether we run or not- I do think our offense will be open and there will be proper spacing and movement - something we probably haven't had since maybe the 70's.

I also hope that we might be able to take a role player on a LLE type contract, and get big numbers (8pts) out of them.
Silverfuel
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5/17/2008  4:13 PM
I think the Knicks roster will change soon. Not trying to win 62 games next year.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
TMS
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5/17/2008  4:26 PM
we have to take advantage of the strengths of our players... Nate, Balk & Lee play all out & at a faster pace than many players in the league... you use that to your advantage & get out to fastbreaks as soon as possible & have those guys get to the hole & finish... we can't be launching up 3's like the Suns did... they had the shooters to do it, we don't.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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5/17/2008  5:15 PM
Posted by TMS:

we have to take advantage of the strengths of our players... Nate, Balk & Lee play all out & at a faster pace than many players in the league... you use that to your advantage & get out to fastbreaks as soon as possible & have those guys get to the hole & finish... we can't be launching up 3's like the Suns did... they had the shooters to do it, we don't.

When we start talking about firing up threes I can't get the Patino Bomb Squad team out of my head. I'm not to worried about the three point shooting on the Knicks they have pretty good shooter in Nate, Crawford and Q when right Q hits them in bunches but Q isn't my favorite at all though. I saw enough to think that Chandler can become a better three point shooter.

The Knicks will pick up a nice player in the draft and hopefully its a PG but my preference is Beasley. I think this guy is going to be all world in the league. Especially in a system like what the Knicks plan on running. He will be a monster. As for PG I think the Knicks can trade for one. There are two that I like Ford is definitely a game changer with the way he involves his teammates. Another guy I like is the kid on the BUcks Ramon Sessions. I think Sessions is a player that D'Antoni can work with Maybe a trade of Lee for sessions would be nice move.

TMS
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5/17/2008  5:51 PM
i hear u on Chandler, i think he's got the tools to be a good versatile player for us & has a decent looking shooting touch... seeing him improving on a 3 pt shot wouldn't be a stretch at all for him

i like Sessions a lot but for D Lee i think i'd have to get back a bigman... he's too valuable for us to give him up for a small when we can draft 1 anyway w/our lottery pick (unless we somehow end up w/Beasley obviously)... if i thought Sessions would be the next Chris Paul or even Tony Parker then obviously it's not even a question but if we're trading Lee to MIL i want Yi or Bogut (probably not happening on their end)
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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5/17/2008  6:14 PM
Posted by TMS:

i hear u on Chandler, i think he's got the tools to be a good versatile player for us & has a decent looking shooting touch... seeing him improving on a 3 pt shot wouldn't be a stretch at all for him

i like Sessions a lot but for D Lee i think i'd have to get back a bigman... he's too valuable for us to give him up for a small when we can draft 1 anyway w/our lottery pick (unless we somehow end up w/Beasley obviously)... if i thought Sessions would be the next Chris Paul or even Tony Parker then obviously it's not even a question but if we're trading Lee to MIL i want Yi or Bogut (probably not happening on their end)


I like Lee but lets not over hype him. He is defensive liability and lacks any kind of jumper. What the Knicks are doing bascally trading rebounds for assists. Its a very fair trade and if you think about it hard enough it becomes better and better because Lee is coming into his walk year and the Knicks need to plan for 2010 free agency. Avoid giving Lee a bumped up contract. I mean after all Lee is, like it or not still a one dimentional player. It is what it is don't over value what Lee is he is a good player but I would definitely trade him for Sessions without hesitation.
NYKBocker
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5/17/2008  6:21 PM
BRIGGS with that initial starting lineup, I think we are comparable but not quite at every position.

Sun Players--
Amare Stoudemire # 26-10 C 6-10 56%
Shawn Marion 20-11 F 6-7 48%
Joe Johnson 17-5-4 F 6-8 46%
Q 13-6-2 G 6-6 38%
Nash 17-11 G 6-3 50%

Knick Players--
DLee-C-6'9"
PF-Balkman-6'8"
SF-Chandler-6'8"
SG-Crawford-6'5"
PG-D.Rose or Nate

We will be running and gunning. Nash is the only comparison there that is absolutely ridiculous. The rest you can say there is a chance to be comparable. I know. I know. Pom Pom post at its best.
TMS
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5/17/2008  6:38 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by TMS:

i hear u on Chandler, i think he's got the tools to be a good versatile player for us & has a decent looking shooting touch... seeing him improving on a 3 pt shot wouldn't be a stretch at all for him

i like Sessions a lot but for D Lee i think i'd have to get back a bigman... he's too valuable for us to give him up for a small when we can draft 1 anyway w/our lottery pick (unless we somehow end up w/Beasley obviously)... if i thought Sessions would be the next Chris Paul or even Tony Parker then obviously it's not even a question but if we're trading Lee to MIL i want Yi or Bogut (probably not happening on their end)


I like Lee but lets not over hype him. He is defensive liability and lacks any kind of jumper. What the Knicks are doing bascally trading rebounds for assists. Its a very fair trade and if you think about it hard enough it becomes better and better because Lee is coming into his walk year and the Knicks need to plan for 2010 free agency. Avoid giving Lee a bumped up contract. I mean after all Lee is, like it or not still a one dimentional player. It is what it is don't over value what Lee is he is a good player but I would definitely trade him for Sessions without hesitation.

i really don't think i've ever over hyped D Lee... he isn't the next great white hope but he is a good player & he is our best young talent w/o question... & i don't like the idea of trading talented young bigs for young G's unless the G you're trading for is just head & shoulders that good... the fact that Lee's going into his walk year has no bearing on this discussion, so is Sessions.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Vmart
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5/17/2008  6:47 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by TMS:

i hear u on Chandler, i think he's got the tools to be a good versatile player for us & has a decent looking shooting touch... seeing him improving on a 3 pt shot wouldn't be a stretch at all for him

i like Sessions a lot but for D Lee i think i'd have to get back a bigman... he's too valuable for us to give him up for a small when we can draft 1 anyway w/our lottery pick (unless we somehow end up w/Beasley obviously)... if i thought Sessions would be the next Chris Paul or even Tony Parker then obviously it's not even a question but if we're trading Lee to MIL i want Yi or Bogut (probably not happening on their end)


I like Lee but lets not over hype him. He is defensive liability and lacks any kind of jumper. What the Knicks are doing bascally trading rebounds for assists. Its a very fair trade and if you think about it hard enough it becomes better and better because Lee is coming into his walk year and the Knicks need to plan for 2010 free agency. Avoid giving Lee a bumped up contract. I mean after all Lee is, like it or not still a one dimentional player. It is what it is don't over value what Lee is he is a good player but I would definitely trade him for Sessions without hesitation.

i really don't think i've ever over hyped D Lee... he isn't the next great white hope but he is a good player & he is our best young talent w/o question... & i don't like the idea of trading talented young bigs for young G's unless the G you're trading for is just head & shoulders that good... the fact that Lee's going into his walk year has no bearing on this discussion, so is Sessions.

I don't consider 6'9'' as bigs anymore. to me bigs start at 6'11 and above. The Knicks have ample bigs on the team and some untradeable contracts too. A gurad is necessary more to run the system which is bigger than any big on the KNicks. Basically Lee isn't a big anyway. A big that lacks defense and shot blocking abiity is pretty much a small forward or a guard and he lacks a jumper. I would do the trade.
Allanfan20
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5/17/2008  10:11 PM
Posted by TMS:

we have to take advantage of the strengths of our players... Nate, Balk & Lee play all out & at a faster pace than many players in the league... you use that to your advantage & get out to fastbreaks as soon as possible & have those guys get to the hole & finish... we can't be launching up 3's like the Suns did... they had the shooters to do it, we don't.

No we don't have shooters (Though we desperately need a couple at LEAST) but we do have athletic players who can move without the ball and would benefit severely from a passing PG. Nate, Lee, Crawford, Balkman, and Chandler are all exceptional at cutting to the basket and I'm betting that even Nate can catch and complete a couple of alley oops in traffic with the right PG.

One more thing. If Zach weren't such a beeotch, I'd say he could take on a younger Kurt Thomas roll and fill that in perfectly well. Screen and rolls, rebound, play defense. Too bad he doesn't play defense and refuses to do such difficult things like setting screens and then rolling to the open spot.
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
PresIke
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5/17/2008  11:24 PM
BRIGGS,

I think this is an example of revisionist history, in terms of seeing it outside of how we viewed things then. Nash was not the player he is now when he arrived at PHX and then played under D'Antoni's system and won 2 MVPs (whether he deserved them or not). He was a first year coach and does not deserve credit for winning 62 games?

They then won 54 games without Stoudamire, and replaced Johnson with Boris Diaw, in what supposed to be a horrible trade for the Suns but managed to still do well. They came back down 3-1 after Kobe was killing them and made it all the way to the conference finals to a great Mavs team that some say should have won the title. Boris Diaw won Most Improved Player, Barbosa became better, as did Raja Bell.

Certainly Nash and the talent level was key, but it was the TEAM concept and buy in that is what was also key.

No one should expect our team to be that good, but the current roster is entirely an Isiah creation. Walsh's hasn't even made a roster move yet, but so far Isiah has been removed from power and one of the most successful coaches with an open mind to innovation and direction our team has essentially been blind to, i.e. the influence of the International game and players.

I think a little more time might be warranted before we start worrying about comparing our team to the 62 win Suns, but D'Antoni was able to maximize the win total from what he was given, and has shown a history of developing players.

[Edited by - PresIke on 05-17-2008 11:24 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
4949
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5/18/2008  8:28 PM
Posted by Vmart:
Posted by TMS:

i hear u on Chandler, i think he's got the tools to be a good versatile player for us & has a decent looking shooting touch... seeing him improving on a 3 pt shot wouldn't be a stretch at all for him

i like Sessions a lot but for D Lee i think i'd have to get back a bigman... he's too valuable for us to give him up for a small when we can draft 1 anyway w/our lottery pick (unless we somehow end up w/Beasley obviously)... if i thought Sessions would be the next Chris Paul or even Tony Parker then obviously it's not even a question but if we're trading Lee to MIL i want Yi or Bogut (probably not happening on their end)


I like Lee but lets not over hype him. He is defensive liability and lacks any kind of jumper. What the Knicks are doing bascally trading rebounds for assists. Its a very fair trade and if you think about it hard enough it becomes better and better because Lee is coming into his walk year and the Knicks need to plan for 2010 free agency. Avoid giving Lee a bumped up contract. I mean after all Lee is, like it or not still a one dimentional player. It is what it is don't over value what Lee is he is a good player but I would definitely trade him for Sessions without hesitation.

Lee's a defensive liability and hopeless. nuff said.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Cosmic
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5/18/2008  10:19 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

BRIGGS with that initial starting lineup, I think we are comparable but not quite at every position.

Sun Players--
Amare Stoudemire # 26-10 C 6-10 56%
Shawn Marion 20-11 F 6-7 48%
Joe Johnson 17-5-4 F 6-8 46%
Q 13-6-2 G 6-6 38%
Nash 17-11 G 6-3 50%

Knick Players--
DLee-C-6'9"
PF-Balkman-6'8"
SF-Chandler-6'8"
SG-Crawford-6'5"
PG-D.Rose or Nate

We will be running and gunning. Nash is the only comparison there that is absolutely ridiculous. The rest you can say there is a chance to be comparable. I know. I know. Pom Pom post at its best.

The shooting percentages are the killer for our comparative players. Not to mention how allergic they are to unselfish play.

We can compare player heights and fitness all we want to the Suns teams but we sorely lack the chemistry born on willing unselfish high IQ play - and high shooting percentages (except for QBrick, of course)

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Looking back at Suns roster from 04-05 when they won 62
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