As a matter of law, maybe. It sounds like the prosecutor botched the case.

As a matter of justice, probably not and I don't really know what justice would have been.

The police in the Soviet Union wasn't even allowed to carry guns, only for special ops. But then again they didn't need them since guns weren't sold to public and criminals had an incredibly hard time obtaining them(they had to be handmade and thugs and lesser criminal elements never could get them)

If something like this ever happened those cops would do the time and probably would never hold a gun again ever , that is if they ever were allowed to work as cops again, very doubtful.

Posted by islesfan:

As a matter of law, maybe. It sounds like the prosecutor botched the case.

As a matter of justice, probably not and I don't really know what justice would have been.

I actually agree with you. Legally, the justification defense clearly exonerates the officers who had reason to believe that the car represented the use of deadly physical force toward their partner. That alone is a legal justification to shoot. The reality is however, that a young men is dead, and of course that is awful.

It would also be impossible to convict these cops of reckless endangerment without convicting them of the manslaughter. The definition of manslaughter is in sum; to recklessly and injustifiably create a condition that results in the death of another person. Reckless endangerment is simply to recklessly and unjustifiably create a condition that could result in serious physical injury or death to another person. If they are guilty of creating the condition, then you have to find them guilty of the manslaughter.

I think in this matter you have to ask yourself, if you were in these cops shoes and you overheard threats to get a gun, saw your partner run over by a car and knocked down while the car is moving back and forward as fast as it can be put into forward and reverse, then what would you do. Lets say that you were Oliver and Cooper and you see the above car ramming your partner, and then your partner yells "GUN!" and shoots into the car. Would you help your partner? What you have the ability to think so rationaly that you would not shoot?

These men SHOULD NOT HAVE DIE. But the fact that they did doesnt mean that these offricers should be incarcerated for a shooting that clearly falls into the legal guidelines for the use of deadly physical force as a justification defense.

Posted by nyk4ever:

This whole thing was a tragedy. I believe these cops should have been given sentences, in the 5 year range because they didn't do their job properly and it ended up in the death of a human being and they should be held accountable for that. At the time same time, I still think they were just doing their job. Of course killing an innocent man isn't part of the job, but what if he really did have a gun and opened fire? He could have killed an officer or two and if he does it's just another cop dead with no story.

It's really sad that someone had to die this way.. what a world we live in.

If he really did have a gun, they still have the drop on him, their weapons are drawn and aimed.
They still have the advantage. Its scary and I understand that, but police should lean towards no action rather than towards a wrong and deadly action.
Officers are supposed to put their lives on the line to protect ours, not put our lives on the line to protect theirs.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Killa4luv:

Posted by nyk4ever:

This whole thing was a tragedy. I believe these cops should have been given sentences, in the 5 year range because they didn't do their job properly and it ended up in the death of a human being and they should be held accountable for that. At the time same time, I still think they were just doing their job. Of course killing an innocent man isn't part of the job, but what if he really did have a gun and opened fire? He could have killed an officer or two and if he does it's just another cop dead with no story.

It's really sad that someone had to die this way.. what a world we live in.

If he really did have a gun, they still have the drop on him, their weapons are drawn and aimed.
They still have the advantage. Its scary and I understand that, but police should lean towards no action rather than towards a wrong and deadly action.
Officers are supposed to put their lives on the line to protect ours, not put our lives on the line to protect theirs.

Totally agree Killa. Too often nowadays, I believe people are afraid of cops instead of what their purpose is - to serve and PROTECT.

Amen

Posted by GKFv2:

I used to think cops were the good guys but because of many bad apples in every force it isn't that way.

A few months ago my brother (with a clean record might I add) was arrested in front of my own house because after 3 Narcotics cops searched his vehicle for no reason and were walking away when my brother stupidly told them to "lick his balls." These guys literally ran and tackled him on the hood of his car, breaking his glasses that he uses to drive with in the meantime. I was with my brother at the time. These guys were arrogant pricks who had nothing better to do than to accost innocent civilians. They were also in a mini-van so at the time so I didn't know if these guys were for real or not. In the end he was charged with disorderly conduct (what?) but the case was dismissed last week without him even seeing a judge. Pathetic.

But back to the original case, I think these guys should have did their time. I don't think it was racial but just cops abusing their power as usual. 50 shots? Seriously man, a guy is dead with 2 or 3 shots. WTF are the other shots for? Is he gonna magically get up and kill you after the first 30? Reckless and sickening.



[Edited by - gkfv2 on 04-25-2008 6:09 PM]

Wow, that story is pretty pathetic. Did your brother sue or anything?

Posted by GKFv2:

He was going to file a civilian complaint but he didn't even do that because he didn't think it was worth the time and money to spend on them. You see guys getting acquitted for shooting people. The judge would have most likely been on their side anyway. That is the way the justice system works. All these guys have each other's backs. Plus my brother thought that these guys would come back and harass me and my family if they found out he ever did anything about it so he didn't want to create any problems.

I've been harrassed numerous times. I never filed a complaint......thats the norm. People feel its too much of a hassel. I guess thats why there is no change.

I'm out in queens blvd now, btw. I'm on my bob marley positive vibrations ****.

Posted by EnySpree:

None of these guys should be allowed to be detectives and probably should have their guns taken from them.

Wait for the civil cases, Eny. Bell's widow is going to be a millionaire and these three are going to be unemployed.

Posted by GKFv2:

I used to think cops were the good guys but because of many bad apples in every force it isn't that way.

A few months ago my brother (with a clean record might I add) was arrested in front of my own house because after 3 Narcotics cops searched his vehicle for no reason and were walking away when my brother stupidly told them to "lick his balls." These guys literally ran and tackled him on the hood of his car, breaking his glasses that he uses to drive with in the meantime. I was with my brother at the time. These guys were arrogant pricks who had nothing better to do than to accost innocent civilians. They were also in a mini-van so at the time so I didn't know if these guys were for real or not. In the end he was charged with disorderly conduct (what?) but the case was dismissed last week without him even seeing a judge. Pathetic.

But back to the original case, I think these guys should have did their time. I don't think it was racial but just cops abusing their power as usual. 50 shots? Seriously man, a guy is dead with 2 or 3 shots. WTF are the other shots for? Is he gonna magically get up and kill you after the first 30? Reckless and sickening.



[Edited by - gkfv2 on 04-25-2008 6:09 PM]

Telling a cop to lick your balls clearly constitutes a violation of penal code 240.20 subsection 3 (disorderly conduct), the use of obscene language or gesture in a public place. I would have locked your brother up too. He had no idea what was going on in the area at the time and why he was being searched, so he should have kept his mouth shut. I also suspect that there is more to the story than you are sharing, as the above violation (not a crime, but a violation) is almost ALWAYS solved by the issuance of a summones, very rarely in an arrest.