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A point I made below that deserves it's own thread--if the Knicks goal is to win a championship
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BRIGGS
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4/15/2008  12:13 AM
Why did we hire a 67-68 YO man to a 3 year contract for a project that will likely take 5-6 years?
It seems more like a move to somehow just get back to that 41 win level.

After 7 years of failure--should anyone associated with player evaluations in college or the NBA--i.e scouts coaches anyone related still be here? Shouldn't this job have gone to a younger guy with more energy--a guy who has no ties to anyone here--and honestly tell everyone to get out.

Donnie Walsh was in semi retirement type mode in Indiana--it's going to take tremendous energy and time to get the Knicks back to where e need to be. The team needs to be totally broken down and reconstructed. I don't think that is the plan and I think that is why Browkaw did that piece. Why should fans pay 100-2000 a ticket to an organization who's goal is to win 41 games?

Maybe the big thing right now is the canning of Isiah----that way they can hide the agenda--another fall guy[although very deservedly so] for the real problem--the OWNER

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 04-15-2008 12:14 AM]
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nyk4ever
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4/15/2008  12:18 AM
Briggs, Walsh hasn't done a thing yet.. can we atleast let him start making moves before we say whether or not he's here for the money or to rebuild this franchise?
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TMS
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4/15/2008  12:22 AM
i think the move was made to return some sense of legitimacy back to our franchise & get rid of the circus atmosphere that has proliferated here for the past few years, at least in terms of Dolan... the championship questions will be answered after we see the types of moves he makes in his rebuilding plan, but there's no reason why he can't at least set the wheels in motion in the right direction & then step down when his age prohibits him from filling the job requirements of running this franchise & hand over the reigns to a handpicked successor that will carry on his vision.
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4949
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4/15/2008  12:23 AM
Posted by TMS:

i think the move was made to return some sense of legitimacy back to our franchise & get rid of the circus atmosphere that has proliferated here for the past few years, at least in terms of Dolan...

Not unless he hires king.
I'll never trust this' team again.
TMS
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4/15/2008  12:27 AM
i'm not following u... how does King's prospective hiring effect the reasoning behind the Walsh hiring?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
sebstar
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4/15/2008  3:13 AM
Briggs is playing himself.
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fishmike
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4/15/2008  7:53 AM
Posted by TMS:

i'm not following u... how does King's prospective hiring effect the reasoning behind the Walsh hiring?
Who he picks as GM will be critical IMO. I think Walsh has the juice and skills to turn around the culture here. I think he can start building something in a 3-4 year period. I think he has the clout and experience to get these things done. Once that culture is changed and the ground work layed you need the GM to keep that direction. I think a guy like King would be a good choice

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
EnySpree
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4/15/2008  8:39 AM
I think hiring Donnie is a good move. We all know he is old as hell.....like Fishy is saying......foundation.....that's it. This franchise is in termoil. Donnie is more qualified than anyone to hire the right people and oversee the movement of the franchise for the next 3 years.

Basically the Knicks need someone to hold their hand to cross this street.

I would advise all you guys not to even care about anybody on the roster right now. The Knicks right now just have a bunch of contracts. Not one role is set. Coaching staff is screwed.....general manger is up in the air.....

Our time is coming my dudes. Right now we have to put our NIXLUVA glasses on!
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Nalod
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4/15/2008  8:53 AM
As long as king is not suiting up and playing he might be the man to ASSIST Walsh. He was an assistant to walsh and got a good gig in Philly.

I also believe great execs have ups and downs like everyone else. Kings experience in Philly MIGHT be a great learning experience to help him become even better.

THink he did not understand Webers short comings? Dalembarts risks? Iversons declining value?

An owner has to sign off on major deals and perhaps King was given a directive to Starphucy a "win now" attempt by the owner.

West went to Memphis and had some nice pieces in place already to give to Hubie Brown. But if you really measure his body of work alone in Memphis it is not all that great. Since the free agent rules/cap changed since he built the Shaq/Kobe era one might question what kind of presidency West really would have. Is he more of a GM or a Culture kind of guy.

If you look at Colangelo, The suns never one a title, and its been Bryan that was the guy behind this teams rebuild. Jerry was the guy that maxed Marbury.

All these guys all have some warts in some fashion.

Regarding Walsh's age, c'mon Briggy. He is the same age as John McCain!
franco12
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4/15/2008  9:14 AM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by TMS:

i'm not following u... how does King's prospective hiring effect the reasoning behind the Walsh hiring?
Who he picks as GM will be critical IMO. I think Walsh has the juice and skills to turn around the culture here. I think he can start building something in a 3-4 year period. I think he has the clout and experience to get these things done. Once that culture is changed and the ground work layed you need the GM to keep that direction. I think a guy like King would be a good choice

Briggs- I don't think Dolan picked Don to be the GM.

I actually think Dolan finally woke up and realized that he couldn't trust anyone in his Organization - from Mills to Isiah & everyone else.

Walsh is reporting direct to Dolan. I don't think you would want a young GM, bright though they may be, to have to do that - That's basically what happened with Isiah.

And I don't think you would want them to report to Mills.

So Walsh is really, at least the way it looks to me, Dolan's Right Hand Man to advise & direct the Knick operations.

This move could be akin to when Steinbrenner finally took a step back from the day to day firings in the 80's - and that's when the Yankees started to win.

Walsh might have a 3/4 year contract, but that doesn't mean he would be here beyond that- I think its a fairly standard length - and Walsh probably didn't want to commit beyond this.

If Walsh can turn things around in 3-4 years, the ship might be pointed the right direction.

And if he wants to retire, hopefully he will leave solid people behind that can continue to build the right foundation.

Lets be realistic, unless we get stupid lucky & land 2 top picks this year and next, we're 5-10 years out from being able to contend for a championship.

No GM would get that kind of contract.

Except Isiah, but he should be gone soon.
Nalod
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4/15/2008  9:45 AM
Briggy,

What has Jerry Colangelo done that Walsh has not?

IN fact, I have not looked at records, but Indy had a real long run under Walsh.

YOu might say the decline in INDY starts with Bird as team president and Walsh handing over the reigns.

Bird has a ton of money and one could imagine him becoming part of ownership in the not to distant future. That could be why he stayed and Walsh left.
kam77
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4/15/2008  9:55 AM
Colangelo was the better hire. He has better relations with the young stars of the league than Don does. But 2nd choice aint bad.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
BRIGGS
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4/15/2008  10:13 AM
Posted by Nalod:

Briggy,

What has Jerry Colangelo done that Walsh has not?

IN fact, I have not looked at records, but Indy had a real long run under Walsh.

YOu might say the decline in INDY starts with Bird as team president and Walsh handing over the reigns.

Bird has a ton of money and one could imagine him becoming part of ownership in the not to distant future. That could be why he stayed and Walsh left.


This post has very little/nothing to do with Don Walsh as a basketball person--it has everything to do with the owner and what I believe he has termed success for the franchise as. Jim Dolan can afford to hire anyone he wants--do we know what the prime directive is here? I still say it stinks of of the 41 game aroma goal. Until I see otherwise I will remain skeptical--and I have 7 years of the same old to back my sentiments up. We've been going at getting names and paying for them--it's the moves after the hire that defines what this franchise is after. I think this is what Tom Brokaw believes as well--he is paying top dollar for tickets yet the franchise owner is very satisfied with bringing just a a good enough product to hit a very meager goal.

After 7 years anyone who has been associated with the personnel side should be out--- scouts coaches all gone.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 04-15-2008 10:16 AM]
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PresIke
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4/15/2008  10:14 AM
67 years old is really not that old, unless that person makes themselves "old." Traditionally we have taken the view that it is, but that's also because we've conditioned ourselves to think at 65 everyone retires.

Even folks that age with ailments function at high levels in many areas of life. In fact, there is evidence that it is actually very healthy for those who reach this age to maintain an active life because full retirement can be a path to quicker death.

Of course, I am biased because my mother is the exact same age as Donnie (about to turn 68 this month) and just this past year she moved abroad to Amman, Jordan as a professor, and she is doing very well. However, last year I did a lot of research on and worked with the aging population and learned that this view was also supported.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-15-2008 10:15 AM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
ramtour420
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4/15/2008  11:47 AM
Posted by PresIke:

67 years old is really not that old, unless that person makes themselves "old." Traditionally we have taken the view that it is, but that's also because we've conditioned ourselves to think at 65 everyone retires.

Even folks that age with ailments function at high levels in many areas of life. In fact, there is evidence that it is actually very healthy for those who reach this age to maintain an active life because full retirement can be a path to quicker death.

Of course, I am biased because my mother is the exact same age as Donnie (about to turn 68 this month) and just this past year she moved abroad to Amman, Jordan as a professor, and she is doing very well. However, last year I did a lot of research on and worked with the aging population and learned that this view was also supported.

[Edited by - PresIke on 04-15-2008 10:15 AM]

Very true, i've read about that myself. Its individual tho, some ppl stay sharp in their 70ies and even 80ies, others develop early Parkinsons and Alzhimers in their 50ies. Btw, totally off topic but there have been studies that prove that getting high greatly reduces the chances of getting those 2 conditions and can not only stop it from getting worse but actually improves the symptoms.

Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
BRIGGS
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4/15/2008  1:34 PM
Am I reading the NY Post right--they plan on retaining Isiah Thomas in the player personell dept? You have to be kidding me--this Walsh hire is a sham if this is true.
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nyk4ever
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4/15/2008  3:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

Am I reading the NY Post right--they plan on retaining Isiah Thomas in the player personell dept? You have to be kidding me--this Walsh hire is a sham if this is true.

I'm skeptical but not as skeptical as you Briggs. Walsh is here, lets let him make some moves before we start judging whether or not this move is a sham.

I think Isiah is going to be retained and will have a desk job doing absolutely NOTHING important to the basketball team. It's just a way for Dolan to atleast get something out of Isiah until his contract runs out.

Is it stupid? Of course.
Was Dolan stupid for signing Isiah to that extension? Of course again.
Do I blame Dolan for not wanting to give Isiah all that money for nothing? Not really, but he made the bed and he has to sleep in it.

Dolan is an idiot, theres no arguing it, but I think if Isiah is retained he will literally do nothing on the basketball end.
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Bippity10
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4/15/2008  5:34 PM
A young man called Bip once said, change the culture first and then think about championships. Walsh's job is to change the culture.
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LBeast
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4/15/2008  9:56 PM
Good point about his age, but, do we really want to give ANYONE control for 5 years? I like the 3 year deal. I wish we could've showed Isiah the door after year 2.

If he gets us to 2010 with a young on the rise team, and signs one of those big free agents (LeBron, Wade, Bosh, etc...), then he will have earned the right to either a fat new contract, or the right to pass his work on to his chosen successor.

Which scary enough might be Isiah Thomas if he weasles his way into a new position at the end of this season.
Bobby
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4/15/2008  10:58 PM
with all the madness that was allowed to exist in the mecca hiring walsh is nothing more than a sanity check.
3 years is perfect to hand the reigns to the next best or better.

if you need a baseline how to run a franchise look no further than joe dumars

and as far as i'm concerned age should be a non factor......if tex winter is interested, get em now!
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A point I made below that deserves it's own thread--if the Knicks goal is to win a championship
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